We did quite well with ourselves last night especially with the camaraderie and that camaraderie and itself allowed our winning bet sellections to really pump it up!!  Something that we would not have done by ourselves. Camaraderie and teamwork excels by far imo, than that of  sitting by yourself or with your head down in the palm of your hand with strangers or other players you have conflicting betselection methods with, turning other people or yourself against your own bet selection for one reason or another.

H-Money called me early this morning at 4am and told me he went to the casino yesterday afternoon.  I left the area to go tot he Twin Cities for the weekend until Tuesady and he told me he would not go back until next week.  He won right at $15k in the two shoes we played Friday night and although he is a pretty good player all around, he totally losses it when he wins or losses.  He does not have the willpower or the knowledge or experience to foster his beliefs when you win, it does not always repeat itself and win you loss, your mind changes and your focus and vision or terriably compromised most times.

However, he did win agian and this time was just over $10,000,00 in 3 shoes.  Most of his win was supported by the 3-card 8/9, 200:1 wager with $10.00 on his spot and another spot he was wagering with another player that was not covering it. 

We both tried for it for an entire shoe Friday night and did not get it.  Had to at least set aside $600-$700 to cover that 200:1 wager from the 15th hand on or so Friday.  Never came.  The 2nd shoe we played it came on the 16th hand I beleive it was.  Both of us did not have it on.  I have said in the past, I do believe this is a great wager, if you can fund it with other win money.  But to sit there and wager it, every single hand, I think that is a bad decision to do on a constant basis. 

Anyway, yesterday he hit it 2 times in one shoe and once in the following shoe.  He got up to a bit over $12k and gacve back a little less than $2k and said, he saw the shoe changing and his emotions kicking in.  He told me that and then he left.  So, maybe....just maybe....witht he $25k back now, he is starting to understand. sections and the risk of smaller amounts and if it did not turn anything, forget the battle until all hell breaks loose with total devestation or some kind of substanitial win. 

As well, I has 2 dealers that also play the game when they are not working in another casino, and there likings have shown the 'any 8/7' is a decent wager for 25:1.  I did see that alot the other day and just about always.  To me, it does appear on a more frequent basis than the Panda 8 does.

P.S.:  Here let me answer the 3 to 5 members in advance to save them their time in asking ans stating.  No, we have no math or statiscial calculations and all that for anything I said.  I am merely posting our reality and results from real-life casino play of the game of baccarat. 

H-Money just called me and he went to the casino today again.  Started to win and then he lost and continued losing for the majority of the day and kept buying in and buying in repeatedly. Told me he could not stop, losing $16,000.00.  Sad, very sad IMO........

I think he was unlucky to be lucky with those 200:1 shots.

It's quite simple to understand that B/P hands cannot be beaten so easily (or nothing at all), however side bets seem to be fantastic to recover losses or to make fair profits, unfortunately in the wrong hands they lead to disaster more rapidly.

I observed in Vegas that many former huge B/P bettors now prefer to make progressions on side bets. Many of them quit the game after hitting one.
I remember a regular middle age asian woman hitting a F-7 for $800 then leaving the table but making the huge mistake to observe the table and not to go home.
Next hands of the shoe produced the like of 5-6 panda bets and a couple more of F-7s.
She was cursing and cursing and so disturbed to make a second error, that is to join the closest table where a new shoe was ready to be dealt.
Naturally no one side bet came, and no one side bet came on the very next shoe.
At least she was so smart to finally going home losing just a small amount.

Al, how many consecutive real live shoes have you seen without at least one panda or one F-7?
Thanks!

as.

The most was one busy weekend and it was seven consecutive shoes at one table without a single Fortune 7 and the 8th  shoe one came.  The ninth shoe had none and then it went back to two threes and fours as a norm. Panda 8s I think I've seen one shoe possibly two or it was at the end of the second shoe. I've never seen two complete shoes without a panda 8. I've written about this in detail before I've seen plenty of times one shoe without or two shoes.  I don't think I've ever seen 3 without as a frequency as a frequent event. But the most at one time was 7 without and it was at the very end of the 8th one again, that's an infrequent happening for numerous hours at the same table.

Quote from: AsymBacGuy on May 07, 2018, 10:35:34 PM
I think he was unlucky to be lucky with those 200:1 shots.

It's quite simple to understand that B/P hands cannot be beaten so easily (or nothing at all), however side bets seem to be fantastic to recover losses or to make fair profits, unfortunately in the wrong hands they lead to disaster more rapidly.

I observed in Vegas that many former huge B/P bettors now prefer to make progressions on side bets. Many of them quit the game after hitting one.

I remember a regular middle age asian woman hitting a F-7 for $800 then leaving the table but making the huge mistake to observe the table and not to go home.

Next hands of the shoe produced the like of 5-6 panda bets and a couple more of F-7s.

She was cursing and cursing and so disturbed to make a second error, that is to join the closest table where a new shoe was ready to be dealt.

Naturally no one side bet came, and no one side bet came on the very next shoe.

as.

Side Wagers is a love-hate relationship as you are totally correct and accurate it can come really quick in the beginning or it won't come at all and you keep attempting and losing your Buy in. The way that I learned how to do it that has benefited me well and a bunch of players is to win some money and set it aside and try for 60 or 70% of the shoe if it did not produce them in the beginning and try the last half or two-thirds of the shoe with the side Wagers. However I like a lot of the side Wagers in the very beginning but if it's the first shoe it's going to be money out of my bank roll or my buy in of course and I'm risking that to make some quick money with the large return on the side Wagers.

As far as the 200:1 for $10.00  it only takes $800 to cover the whole shoe or five or six hundred dollars to cover a portion of it if it didn't come out and I really think with since I've been watching it for several months once a shoe or once or twice every couple two three shoes is about the average. I would say out of the last 10 sessions that I have been watching it I would say four five of the sessions produced One every other shoe at the very least and the other five sessions I would say three of those produced two within 3 shoes and possibly one or two shoes without any. I have seen two or three within one shoe and then again I seen one or two or three shoes without any those 10 sessions I would say would be within 3 weeks with those 10 trips. Even before they started the bad beat Baccarat where it's grab the attention of a lot of people the three card eight and three card 9 in the same hand as always wows players cause it's one of those hands that stick out like a sore thumb. It comes frequently and than other times you might not see it.  But it is most definitely a wager that numerous shoes do not go by without seeing it at least once.

He still will not listen, some people are telling him how much he can win and he can get it all back and all he has to do is play.  They are wrong and dead wrong.  Play and play and play and go everyday, is disaster to the max!  Here are the texts I received last night up to 4AM.

Not pretty.  All his win money is gone.  He will not, as most people, take his win money and pay bills, save it and allocate to anything--only icnreases his bank roll with a combat mission to smack the casino for millions.  OMG, same as we did in the 1980's in Atlantic City!

$25,000.00. Plus  $4,000.00 he borrowed from his sister.  Screw it.  Worse than arguing with a drug addict! 


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I'm on the way back and I'm gonna stop at the casino and play and then go home and open the  business in the morning and hopefully I win some tonight. probably play one shoe.  Had a nice bowl of PHO atmy wife's restaurant she gave me a nice bag of food to go for the road and on the interstate now

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Quote from: alrelax on May 08, 2018, 03:27:11 AM
Side Wagers is a love-hate relationship as you are totally correct and accurate it can come really quick in the beginning or it won't come at all and you keep attempting and losing your Buy in. The way that I learned how to do it that has benefited me well and a bunch of players is to win some money and set it aside and try for 60 or 70% of the shoe if it did not produce them in the beginning and try the last half or two-thirds of the shoe with the side Wagers. However I like a lot of the side Wagers in the very beginning but if it's the first shoe it's going to be money out of my bank roll or my buy in of course and I'm risking that to make some quick money with the large return on the side Wagers.

Thanks Al, that's interesting.   

After all, house cannot prevent side bets to come out clustered and players cannot prevent to get those side bets silent for long.
The problem arises when we want to chase the silent world and/or not taking fully advantage of the clustering effect.

Maybe it's more an art than a science.

I'm sure that people lose a lot more money on B/P hands than on side bets for one simple reason:
it's easier to quit the game after winning some side bets (or noticing they are not coming) whereas it's very hard to know how to quit or stay wagering B/P hands that are a lot more probable and thus more dangerous.

as. 






   

Yes most certainly that is correct. And when you can see extreme value for low-risk and you see it there in front of you as you said it's much easier to walk away with something substantial then sit there and push it back and forth and get sucked in the volatility of the banker player if you didn't start winning and keep winning.

Quote from: alrelax on May 09, 2018, 12:15:46 AM
Yes most certainly that is correct. And when you can see extreme value for low-risk and you see it there in front of you as you said it's much easier to walk away with something substantial then sit there and push it back and forth and get sucked in the volatility of the banker player if you didn't start winning and keep winning.

This, this and this.

The statement enlightened in red should be placed below the "Baccarat Forum" section.

as. 

Too tired to go to the casino and concentrate, Long Weekend up in the Twin Cities just decided to come home and cook a pizza and put some great toppings on it and I'm going to post some texts from my buddy that are really sad and gut-wrenching and I don't think I'm going to give him any more advice cause I'm at wit's end and he does not listen! This has been going on for a couple months as y'all know. I've got other issues to worry about and I gave him too much energy and he's taking away too much from me and I heard that he lost$34,000 total so it would have been $25,000 win money $4,000 from the sister and I guess the $34,000 means he borrowed $5,000 from someone else he knows. A lot of people he knows are all the business people and he hasn't been gambling a long time so they don't know what's going on when he borrows the money.  But anyway that's the rest of the story, I'm going to post the 3 texts soon as I figure out how to send it from my cell phone to my tablet.

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I cut the second picture with the text that he sent me it says, " the reason I buy in I lose wants to get the money back".

Now, I tell him my feelings with brutal honesty and trying to make him stop believing the other arm-chair quarter backers at the table.  He sees these people (all Asians) win $5,000 or $10,000 in a couple/few wagers and then they try to bang the casino--hard and fast and they all lose, every single one of them.  Why?  Because they do not know when or how to leave, NONE of them.  Even if they do that night, they run back the next day, play larger and harder and larger and harder, continually.  Never learn-NEVER NEVER EVER.  No resetting, refreshing, no paying bills, no saving, no making gambling pay off, buy-in, win, win and leave and then give it all back and continue the buy ins.  Win at the casino and play and play and play and play until they lose it all, could be 2 hours, 6 hours, all night or a two day continuous stretch.  It is the same all the time with them all.  Never leave until broke or completely out of available funds.  Hundreds and hundreds and thousands of them.  98% Asians.  I am not biased or raciest, my wife and kids or Asian or mixed, but they suck at gambling, BAD! 

They win enough to buy a brand new Hyundai Sonata or a Honda Accord but they won't go buy one, they are shooting for that Maserati or Porsche, etc.  LOL!  It is comical.  I tell it to their faces and the dealers and floor people crack up laughing and say, "the white guy is right--but you guys don't listen', just the same.  Same as H-Money, same way 110%!  They all have these great dreams and in their minds they are all going to win millions and millions to fund their new luxurious lifestyle. 

Buy in with $1,500.00, win $10,000.00.  Stop, go back down to $1,000.00 or $1,500.00 buy in and forget about the $10k.  Spend it,do  not bank roll it and play at levels that only fuel your senseless and fallacy dreams.  Reset and Refresh, not meaning to take your win and take a break and come back in 30 mins and continue playing.  Completely wrong.  Your mind cannot operate that way.  In theory sure--not in reality.  Sorry math and statistical model guys, not the way it works in a casino.


Here are a few more texts from an hour ago. 

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Sat down with H-money before for a few hours and finally got into his brain and got it straight from the gambler about how he views lost money and win money.  All I can say is very interesting, very very interesting.

Vision—Consciousness & Recognition of Funds

Whether it is bank roll or buy-in or win funds.  Does not matter.  A portion of players will handle their funds extremely consciously, very intelligent and with the knowledge and constant recognition, that the funds they possess, on the table, in their pocket, or those that are available,  should not govern them in their decision making processes, whatever that may be.  Pretty much straight forward and simplistic to the easiest ABC's and Gambling 101's.

However, I have asked many people that do play baccarat, as to their views and thoughts on 'win' money in particular.  The rest the money situation and how each thinks about it, really is too varied and too complicated to understand without knowing those people 24/7 for huge amounts of time.  So, here it is from the 'horses' mouths as the saying goes.

I asked H-Money the other night.  Me: "Say you won $100,000.00 from the casino and left with it, went and purchased two cars for $50,000.00 each.  Then you went back next week to any casino and lost your payroll check of $1,500.00 that night.  Would you be down $1,500.00 or what?"  H-Money:  "No, I would be up $98,500.00 if that was my second time gambling". 

He further went on to say, "You have to keep a running total in your head, as to the amount you are up or down, because you are free to play if you are still and you have to be careful and play more cautiously if you are down until you get up again." 

WOW!  I actually heard almost that same thing from another two baccarat players that played the game for a couple of years or so.  Interesting!  I do believe that money management systems and thought/beliefs about 'win' money, go hand in hand—with how a player thinks, cashes out and gauges his play/session times at the table. 

I have definitely concluded for myself that 'refreshing and resetting' during the sessions as well as at the end of the session, no matter the outcome (win or lose) is vitally important and in your favor tremendously. 

No 'resetting and refreshing' is extremely dangerous;
Viewing 'wins' as not yours is extremely dangerous;
Viewing 'cash outs' as 'up' money is extremely dangerous;
Running tab---of wins and losses and gauging yourself according to same, is extremely dangerous.

The above leads most players to, 'have to make'; 'have to earn'; 'pressure'; false positive reinforcements'; 'forced sessions to produce'; 'visions that cannot be seen or realized are even happening in front of them'; 'possible reinforcing of negativity or caution that hampers their winning ability'.