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Topic: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points  (Read 4632 times)

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Offline Jimske

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Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2019, 01:37:08 pm »
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  • Still interested in these questions to help understand how to use turning points effectively.
    Other questions.  How do you know when a turning point hits?  Or can they only be identified after the shoe is over?  Also, do you wait for a turning point before you start betting?  That seems logical, doesn't it?  By definition a turning point should produce some kind of expected events, right?
    Also I am interested how many bets on average per shoe? 
     
    Oh yeah, "comraderie"  how does that work? 


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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 02:52:16 pm »
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  • Still interested in these questions to help understand how to use turning points effectively. (I will type out some other responses I made notes on for you, possibly tonight)


    Also I am interested how many bets on average per shoe?  ( I have found I do better on 20-30 possibly 35/40 if things are going extremely well, at the most..  Not too often above that.   Best Sections I have caught or am able to take advantage of the opportunity presenting itself, probably 15 at best)
     
    Oh yeah, "comraderie"  how does that work?

    (I have written about it in the past, have to find where that was posted at.  But camaraderie to me, is when most or several others, if not the whole table is wagering together and we are hitting like a solid 3 or 5 out of 5.  Whereupon, you do know that many of the winning wagers you would not have even wagered on or you would have choose the opposite side or not seeing the event/pattern that other have.  Of course, say you are wagering $250.00 and others are wagering $500 or $700, whatever the numbers are.  Then they say, you have to match them, everyone the same, or anything of the likes.  We continue to win.  You know you would have grinded out 3 or 4 for say a considerable amount of bet or less than what you did. 

    Not that they held you hostage or anything or you got talked into a wager, you just went along and developed a team.  It happens and happens often.  Some of my largest wins were actually due to something like this, rather than being alone, over in the corner, figuring something out.  Maybe a better term is, Riding The Wave, with everyone giving support and positive energy?  I do not know, I just label it camaraderie.  No, grouping up cannot change an outcome, but it can allow you to catch great opportunities and wager more than you would if you have a concrete wall up around yourself, IMO and experiences.) 


    Many of us have called/labeled this, Overpowering The Shoe.

     
    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

    Played well over 25,000 shoes of baccarat since I started playing at B&M USA casinos.

    "Don't say it's a winning hand until you are getting paid for it".

    Played numerous properties in Las Vegas, Reno, Southern California, Atlantic City, Connecticut, South Florida, The South/Southeast as well as most areas of The Midwest.

    EMAIL: Betselectionboard@Gmail.Com

    Offline Jimske

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 08:25:12 pm »
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  • Thanks for the reply.  Turning Points a big issue.  You mentioned somewhere that you don't guess and don't predict.  Okay, then at least there is an expectation to be successful more times than not.  Expectations have to have some measurability IMO.  This connotes calculable edge even if it's not as straight forward as putting some kind of count to the decisions.  I still call it guessing however.  An example would be watching a choppy section of the shoe start to get a longer repeat or repeats with a dearth of 1's.  So say pBpBBpBp went BBB.  It could also be something like side dominance or the singles having side dominance.  So different turning points in different situations.  All based on the history which I insist is the bias.

    Offline Jimske

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 08:41:15 pm »
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  • The comraderie thing I'm not buying into for the most part.  I can see where it can be helpful if you are on the opposite of the winning bets and others are doing better.  Then it may be time to re-think, LOL.  But hopefully you are winning hands like the rest of the table and can raise some bets.  Some times it works.  Other times you just gave back some nice wins with a few large losses!  A lot of this depends on a personal game plan.  Are you a grinder OR are you looking to make the occasional big hit?

    There are conservative ways to exploit a good shoe without too much risk.    The Charles Guetting is one way.  Trying an UAYW Fibonacci is another and has a lot more torque when you get those 8,9,10, 11 WIAR.

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #34 on: March 14, 2019, 03:02:32 pm »
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  • Turning Points a big issue.  (Yes, I do believe it is the biggest key component that can help define unknowns into something)[/b][/u]

    You mentioned somewhere that you don't guess and don't predict.  Okay, then at least there is an expectation to be successful more times than not.  Expectations have to have some measurability IMO. (IMO, I generally do not guess, as far as a heads or tails, sheer guess the majority of times anyway.  Sure, sometimes, but not the bulk of my wagers.  Expectations are always there, at times I fail to recognize them, but that has to do with playing and historical consciousness, which I also believe is a defensive somewhat to getting sucked in by everything that goes on at an active bac table.  I am sure there is measurability, but I have never kept permanent records of each and every shoe or each shoe that I won and lost with those statistics.) 

    This connotes calculable edge even if it's not as straight forward as putting some kind of count to the decisions.  I still call it guessing however.  (Very possibly does.  Always a form or can be labeled guessing, I could only assume, since it is not a science or an application that could be applied universally across the board, everywhere with everyone.  Unlike an auto oil change or how to change a tire, etc.)

    An example would be watching a choppy section of the shoe start to get a longer repeat or repeats with a dearth of 1's.  So say pBpBBpBp went BBB.  It could also be something like side dominance or the singles having side dominance.  (Unfortunately, there are the weak turning to strong or the weak getting weaker, or the strong getting stronger or other extreme variations of those events as well.  IMO, players limited themselves to a definitive change and no room within their thought/decision making process to allow themselves to quickly recover or dismiss their own thoughts/decisions that did not just prove correct.  It gets more complicated IMO, because when they are correct, their thoughts/decision process reinforces them and then it goes sideways.  I tried to explain all this, but it is difficult to put it all into words that many will read or want to read.  It is impossible for me to do that in 2 or 3 or 4 sentences.  There are far too many variables to most everything.  At least IMO. )

    So different turning points in different situations. (Yes, there are many and I have listed many of them that I was able to define from intangible to tangible.  Yet, most are dismissed as a random guess and something hiding within a shoe that almost everyone on the internet and with other forums choose to dismiss and call insane made up rubbish, etc.  But there rebuttals are always something along the lines that, you never what is going to come out before it does appear.  Of course, but after playing for a solid 30-35 years whatever, there are noticeable and prevailing events that appear and I have tried my best to explain those.)

    All based on the history which I insist is the bias.  (You can classify and label whatever anyone writes, finds, discovers, brings forward, etc., as a bias in most anything.  Bias's to one player are completely different in many aspects to another player.  IMO, it solely depends on those players experiences, what they have witnessed, what they have made profits from, what they interpret and how ell their own decisions have allowed them to win, etc.)


    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

    Played well over 25,000 shoes of baccarat since I started playing at B&M USA casinos.

    "Don't say it's a winning hand until you are getting paid for it".

    Played numerous properties in Las Vegas, Reno, Southern California, Atlantic City, Connecticut, South Florida, The South/Southeast as well as most areas of The Midwest.

    EMAIL: Betselectionboard@Gmail.Com

    Online alrelax

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #35 on: March 18, 2019, 02:04:11 am »
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  • Within my BetSelection Email address.  (I have not checked for a couple of weeks and after signing on today, there was about 7 personal emails pending.  I have found that with all the drama, resentment and a few strong posters/members-now for the most part on other sites, they are emailing me rather than posting.  Here is one that I will post and then answer, I have deleted his name and Email address. 

    to Betselectionboard:

    Hi, Alrelax, I am -----------, went thru  your posts on Sections & turning pts found it interesting,informative & inspiring to become a better baccarat player by focus,study & observation, instead of going in for scamsters/system sellers,A few questions arose while going thru  your article 1) How do we identify a section 2) How we separate one section from another,( I think by turning point & how does a turning point look like, maybe a single event ? & how do we know a section has finished & turning point has arrived, & triggered another section, 3) In different sections what do we look for repeats, chops, I mean to say each section comprises of repeats, chops individually, or can it be a combo of both, 4) Suppose section A was,streaky can section, B be also streaky or it has to be choppy,Kindly reply, in simple words, Thanks & keep doing the good  job..............................-----------------------------------

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I believe in this and other threads I have of a similar nature, all your questions I have addressed.  If you are looking for a mechanical schedule to follow to win every time or the highest majority of the times, it does not exist.  I have attempted to explain what I have found that helps me.

    But there will always be intangible things as well that play a factor to continue play and increase wagers or stop your play.

    https://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/be-careful-what-you-believe-and-open-your-eyes-sections-turning-points-part-1/


    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

    Played well over 25,000 shoes of baccarat since I started playing at B&M USA casinos.

    "Don't say it's a winning hand until you are getting paid for it".

    Played numerous properties in Las Vegas, Reno, Southern California, Atlantic City, Connecticut, South Florida, The South/Southeast as well as most areas of The Midwest.

    EMAIL: Betselectionboard@Gmail.Com

    Offline Jimske

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #36 on: March 18, 2019, 05:56:53 pm »
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  • Instead of saying it's complicated and I've already addressed it why not present a shoe or two and say what you bet and why?  No, it won't cover everything but let's face it, we have to have a reason to make a bet!

    Turning points an intriguing discussion.  Not once have you shown a turning point and explained why you drew the line there - unless I missed it which is very possible.

    Sorry, Al, IMO you make this game way more complicated than it is. 

    Sure:  Positive attitude, be objective, have a plan, don't get emotional, etc. etc.  It's easy to say, hard to do sometimes but I think we get all that.

    Online alrelax

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    Re: Baccarat Sections and Turning Points
    « Reply #37 on: March 19, 2019, 01:36:32 pm »
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  • "You keep on harping on this ave bac player wants to change the shoe stuff.  I disagree.  We don't have any empirical knowledge of average bac player but my guess from experience is that ave player is betting on the past to continue or, as you pointed out many times, bet the run to stop (cut) precisely because of known averages."

    There will always be the WHAT IF, or the IT DID NOT DO IT, or the I SHOULD HAVE BET THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT I THOUGHT, or one of other countless sayings when the wagered hand fails to prevail.  But, you we wager and we wager for reasons the majority of the times, admit it or not.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    FIRST SECTION

    B  Nat 9/Over Nat 8
    P  6 over 1
    B  2 over 0
    B  6 over 0
    T 7/7
    P  Nat 9 over 2
    P  7 over 5
    P  6 over 0
    B  8 over 6
    P  7 over 2
    P  7 over 6
    T 7/7
    P  4 over 1
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    SECOND SECTION

    B  Nat 9 over 7
    P  4 over 2
    P  Nat 9 over 2
    B  6 over 2
    P  Nat 8 over 4
    B  Nat 8 over 1
    B  7 over 0
    P  9 over 7
    P  5 over 5
    T 8/8
    B  6 over 0
    B  6 over 3
    P  7 over 4
    B  Nat 8 over 5
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    THIRD SECTION

    P  7 over 3
    T 6/6
    B  Nat 8 over 5
    B  9 over 2
    B  Nat 8 over 4
    B  3 over 2
    B  Nat 8 over 7
    B  7 over 5  (Fortune 7)
    B  4  over 3
    P  Nat 9 over 6
    P  Nat 8 over 7
    P  Nat 9 over 4
    B  9 over 6
    B  Nat 8 over 1
    B  Nat 8 over 2
    B  8 over 2
    B  9 over 4
    B  1 over 0
    P  Nat 8 over 1
    P  Nat 8 over 6
    P  Nat 9 over Nat 8
    T 7/7
    B  7 over 5
    T  0/0 (6-10 pip cards)
    B  Nat 9 over 7
    B  6 over 5
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    FOURTH SECTION


    P  6 over 4
    B  6 over 1
    P  7 over 4
    B  9 over 5
    B  3 over 1
    B  Nat 9 over 3
    P  7 over 3
    P Nat 9 over 3
    P 8 over 5  (Panda EIGHT)
    B  5 over 3
    P  8 over 7   (Panda EIGHT)
    P  4 over 0
    B  Nat 0 over 3
    B  5 over 1
    B  Nat 9 over 1
    P  7 over 4
    P  Nat 9 over 6
    B  Nat 8 over 6
    B  Nat 9 over 7
    B  7 over 5
    P  9 over 4
    B  7 over 4
    T 7/7
    T 8/8
    P  6 over 1
    P  9 over 6
    B  8 over 5
    B  0 over 1
    B  6 over 4
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    82 Hands
    Players = 32
    Banker = 42
    Ties = 8
    Pandas 8s = 2
    Fortune 7s = 1
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    (I will post decision notes and wagers later.  This was a shoe from actual play at a casino)
    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

    Played well over 25,000 shoes of baccarat since I started playing at B&M USA casinos.

    "Don't say it's a winning hand until you are getting paid for it".

    Played numerous properties in Las Vegas, Reno, Southern California, Atlantic City, Connecticut, South Florida, The South/Southeast as well as most areas of The Midwest.

    EMAIL: Betselectionboard@Gmail.Com