I am going to post 5 shoes a day from the BB2 Simulator. These are not RNG, but shuffled cards. (6 decks)
Shoe 1:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 2:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 3:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 4:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 5:
[attachimg=5]
cheers
My results for a purely mechanical random strategy I am testing at the moment are as follows from the 5 shoes above.
Shoe 1: +8
Shoe 2: +6
Shoe 3: +12
Shoe 4: +4
Shoe 5: -5
It uses a 124 positive progression. I will share it if it stays in profit over 100 shoes winning more than 50% of the shoes.
cheers
Banker is in green I assume?
Flat betting VDW/2 shows:
#1 +0
#2 +6
#3 +2
#4 +8
#5 +12
Obviously there are many ways to play but this is the current play.
Post up your own honest results to see what may be working!
AD (or sit there like a slug and eat Cheetos
Thanks ADulay for joining in.
Patience, Yes, your correct.
Bally that is very cool and i read you use positiv progression, that is twice as hard then flatbetting wish i assume Adulay did with VDM ...
CHeers
Hello Sputnik, I wouldn't normally toy around with random mechanical ideas anymore, however I still had a few ideas floating around the old brain and so I am giving them a test. I am a VDW advocate myself and ADulay's results could blow mine away over 100 shoes, but we will see. I like the positive progressions. I seem to remember in the 'Koetsch' book 'Conquering the Casino's' that a 124 geometric bet performed better than flat betting regarding peak gains over 100 rounds. I will need to look back into all that and see how it all works with VDW.
Anyway, here are todays 5 shoes.
Shoe 6:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 7:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 8:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 9:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 10:
[attachimg=5]
cheers
Shoe 6: +27
Shoe 7: -14
Shoe 8: -14
Shoe 9: +19
Shoe 10: -12
Total from 10 Shoes +31.
It just shows how random works. Looking at yesterdays 5 shoes and todays, you would think there were two completely different systems.
cheers
Quote from: ADulay on March 31, 2017, 12:31:29 AM
Flat betting VDW/2 shows:
#1 +0
#2 +6
#3 +2
#4 +8
#5 +12
Obviously there are many ways to play but this is the current play.
Post up your own honest results to see what may be working!
AD (or sit there like a slug and eat Cheetos
ADULAY....
I CAN'T RECALL WHAT .." VDW/2 " IS ?? .....OR IF I EVEN KNEW WHAT IT WAS ?? ???
COULD YOU PLEASE ...OR SOMEONE PLEASE REFRESH MY MEMORY ? :thumbsup:
Thank ya very much !!
Quote'Conquering the Casino's' that a 124 geometric bet performed better than flat betting regarding peak gains over 100 rounds.
Bally i hate it when you mention the book, i don't want anyone to read it or buy it, i just want everyone forget about the book so i can keep the testing results and material for my self :-)
After reading his book my understanding and knowledge took a different level of understanding. I also react after reading that some positiv progressions was better then flatbetting.
Now i do exactly the same test process as he did - but i get a hint after 10 x 100 placed bets and look at all different peaks and reversals.
The most important factor is to key when and where during does samples you are ahead. So real statistics show when to quit based upon logical facts. Great feeling.
Cheers
Second batch under VDW/2 Flat:
#1 -3
#2 -4
#3 +8
#4 +0
#5 +5
Bally i don't understand how you and Adulay present our results.
- do you play one shoe and at the end of the shoe you look at the net profit or loss
- do you play one shoe and use win targets and stop loss
- do you play one shoe and show the peak results of winnings or loses during the play
Cheers
Hello Sputnik,
Mine is just the results at the end of the shoe. I don't have any stop wins / losses. There are just two triggers that I wait for.
cheers
johnnycs1,
Bet selection VDW is discussed in this thread.
http://betselection.cc/roulette-forum/use-math-to-beat-roulettebaccarat/
Quote from: james on March 31, 2017, 09:25:11 PM
johnnycs1,
Bet selection VDW is discussed in this thread.
http://betselection.cc/roulette-forum/use-math-to-beat-roulettebaccarat/
THANKS JAMES .....KIND OF YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION !!
LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF INFO TO CONSIDER !!
I only read the first page out of something like 22 pages and will read thru it ASAP .
In the meantime , does anyone know , if it is a viable method to use ? what's the general feeling ?
Thanks Again James !! Have a Great Weekend !!
Quote from: Sputnik on March 31, 2017, 08:27:48 PM
Bally i don't understand how you and Adulay present our results.
- do you play one shoe and at the end of the shoe you look at the net profit or loss
- do you play one shoe and use win targets and stop loss
- do you play one shoe and show the peak results of winnings or loses during the play
Cheers
Sputnik,
5 shoes. 5 results. Each shoe played out individually to the end. There has been only one shoe where I would have exited early with a +10 descending stop loss..
This is for consistency with the others who may be testing along.
Can't believe there's only two of us actually "testing" with this data.
Doesn't anyone else play?
AD
Dammit. Where's the edit button???????
AD
Shoe 11:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 12:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 13:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 14:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 15:
[attachimg=5]
Shoe 11: +17
Shoe 12: +15
Shoe 13: -4
Shoe 14: +11
Shoe 15: -7
Total = 15 shoes +63
I tested loads of shoes yesterday and they were mostly positive with some really good scores. So I was thinking 'sods law' was going to take over and the 5 shoes I did on here would tank! Happily not!
cheers
Hey Adulay... try VDW/2 with the progression U1D1 (if you haven't already)... testing "72 days at the Bac table"...starting with shoe 196, using this made 12 units first shoe!! Highest bet was 5... :thumbsup:
#11 +6
#12 +7
#13 +2
#14 +2
#15 -1
VDW/2 Flat Bet.
AD
Quote from: audionut on April 01, 2017, 11:14:37 AM
Hey Adulay... try VDW/2 with the progression U1D1 (if you haven't already)... testing "72 days at the Bac table"...starting with shoe 196, using this made 12 units first shoe!! Highest bet was 5... :thumbsup:
I have tested over and over the U1D1 and U1D2 wagers. I have found that a losing streak will require an ever increasing amount of winning wagers to recover, even when running U1D1.
A simple example is to look at a losing string of 4 wagers. Total amount put on the table vs. amount finished with after the win.
With that said, if you can string wins together, especially 3 or more, the U1D1 really works out nicely.
AD (of course any play works out nicely if you can put together wins of 3 IAR!)
Isn't anybody else going to play these shoes with their normal methods?
AD
hi bally, there are one in twelve males cannot read your shoes due to colour blindness.
The results so far:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Disregard the post above. Edit button is missing.
Bally6354 made 63 units in 15 shoes using 1,2,4 progression. ADulay made 50 units flat betting.
Hello Goez, I didn't realize the number was as low as that. I would type in the P and B as well but at the moment there are letters that sometimes don't appear when I type. I don't know if it's a site problem or my keyboard. So putting it out in that format would likely contain mistakes. Sorry about that.
Shoe 16:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 17:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 18:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 27:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 28:
[attachimg=5]
Cheers
EDIT: The two last shoes above should read 19 and 20......not 27 and 28. The screenhunter capture I use gives numbers to all the pictures.
Shoe 16: +5
Shoe 17: -15
Shoe 18: +17
Shoe 19: -16
Shoe 20: +27
Total after 20 Shoes = +81.
cheers
good job bally O0 :))
#16 +1
#17 +5
#18 -6 (9 2's. The death of VDW)
#19 +2
#20 -5
Flat betting VDW/2
Quote from: ADulay on April 01, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Isn't anybody else going to play these shoes with their normal methods?
AD
I am going to post my method here shortly AD plus and older one as well
Trbfla, great! I am looking forward to reading your posts.
Shoe 21:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 22:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 23:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 24:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 25:
[attachimg=5]
Cheers
Shoe 21: -3
Shoe 22: +3
Shoe 23: -21
Shoe 24: +5
Shoe 25: -7
Total after 25 shoes = +58.
cheers
#21 +4
#22 -1
#23 +9
#24 +4
#25 +16 (several long streaks = good!)
VDW/2 Flat Betting.
Perhaps we need to post up a transcribed shoe for #23 because of the vast difference in our results.
AD
Once again, no editing.
Shoe #23 should be +6 and not +9.
AD
Quote from: ADulay on March 31, 2017, 12:31:29 AM
Flat betting VDW/2 shows:
#1 +0
#2 +6
#3 +2
#4 +8
#5 +12
Obviously there are many ways to play but this is the current play.
Post up your own honest results to see what may be working!
AD (or sit there like a slug and eat Cheetos
Andy, by VDW/2 you mean play VDW bet selection
stopping and resetting at -2?
Shoe 26:
[attachimg=1]
Shoe 27:
[attachimg=2]
Shoe 28:
[attachimg=3]
Shoe 29:
[attachimg=4]
Shoe 30:
[attachimg=5]
Shoe 26: -7
Shoe 27: +7
Shoe 28: -6
Shoe 29: +7
Shoe 30: -15
Man the lifeboats! :pirate:
Total after 30 shoes = +44
A few people have asked for the triggers, so I will explain how it all works after 50 shoes.
cheers
Quote from: andrebac on April 04, 2017, 05:11:23 AM
Andy, by VDW/2 you mean play VDW bet selection
stopping and resetting at -2?
No, the /2 denotes that any PP/BB restarts the set.
AD
What's the difference between VDW/2 and TBL/2 (avant-derniere)?
They are the same...
AD,
Can you post one shoe example how you restart at your convenience?
Thanks.
Flat bet. Hit and run. Stop at +4. No loss limit.
1-5 = +16
6-10 = +3
11-15=+20
16-20=+12
21-25=+20
26-30=+16
Unusually good shoes with lots of long streaks that I rarely see. Are these real card results that you entered into the software?
Quote from: roversi13 on April 04, 2017, 05:07:10 PM
What's the difference between VDW/2 and TBL/2 (avant-derniere)?
They are the same...
They are not.
Not even close.
AD
Quote from: james on April 04, 2017, 05:21:30 PM
AD,
Can you post one shoe example how you restart at your convenience?
Thanks.
Several are posted in the original VDW thread.
AD
Quote from: Eight Iron on April 05, 2017, 12:28:57 AM
Flat bet. Hit and run. Stop at +4. No loss limit.
1-5 = +16
6-10 = +3
11-15=+20
16-20=+12
21-25=+20
26-30=+16
Unusually good shoes with lots of long streaks that I rarely see. Are these real card results that you entered into the software?
I agree. Plenty of streaks to make up for any short comings in those shoes so far.
AD
Ok, as promised here are some of my results-I still have to catch up
Shoe 1 +9
Shoe 2 +21
Shoe 3 +3
Shoe 4 +9
Shoe 5 +4
Total +46
Shoe 6 +4
Shoe 7 -4
Shoe 8 +11
Shoe 9 +5
Shoe 10 -3
Total +13 total 1-10 +59
Shoe 11 +12
Shoe 12 +11
Shoe 13 -1
Shoe 14 -4
Shoe 15 +6
Total +24
1-15 total +73
With my approach "hit and run":
Shoes 1,3,5,6,10,11,12,13,18: +1 big unit
Shoe 8: + 2 big units
Other shoes:no bet
As far as VDW/2 and TBL/2 are concerned,both lose big against 2's,and if I accept that bet selection with VDW/2 is more sophisticated than TBL/2,the result is exactly the same for both progressions with your shoes.
With VDW bets are a bit less frequent.
Maybe you have noticed that variance with VDW/2 is more under control,but I'm afraid it's an illusion.
I've studied VDW/2 for a long time and I 'd like to know why you prefer it to TBL/2.
The shoes are from shuffled cards from the BB2 simulator. You can define the shuffle if you like, however I just use it's default version. The shoes I am putting up are just the first 5 I test daily.
Cheers
I follow this topic and like it very much.
All results from Adulay and Bally is valid and no guess work or hide and seek topic.
Adulay mention what method he use and anyone can read about the method and get the same results playing it.
Bally mention that he will at the end of the testing show what method he used.
Others who join and show results without mention what method they use so other can test and get same results are just empty words and claims with no validation.
Cheers
For what it's worth, I have also tested this (and others) using a 1,2,4 progression but the end results are very close at the end of the day. The only difference is the exposure of your working capital on the table. The way VDW is structured and plays will sometimes put a quick 1-2 loss up before a win. That puts up a lot of +4 wagers in a short period of time.
If one were to push their Marty out to 6 or 7 places, it would work much better, but then I'm not looking to do that as the flow of the flat bet will allow me to continue on long after the Terrible Twos have taken their toll on others.
VDW does require you to sit out a few hand at a time (usually waiting for the 2-4-6 wager) but for the most part I've never had any problems at the table or online with it.
Many people (make that MOST) people cannot and will not play flat betting for a variety of reasons. That's a personal choice only you can make.
AD
Quote from: Sputnik on April 06, 2017, 02:45:01 PM
I follow this topic and like it very much.
All results from Adulay and Bally is valid and no guess work or hide and seek topic.
Adulay mention what method he use and anyone can read about the method and get the same results playing it.
Bally mention that he will at the end of the testing show what method he used.
Others who join and show results without mention what method they use so other can test and get same results are just empty words and claims with no validation.
Cheers
Nick
I am using a method I learned from another website. I will also devulge my method after this test. AD is fully aware of this approach and if you'd like further confirmation I'm sure AD would love to double check I'm playing the approach correctly.
Also, I am not in need of validation nor do I seek it. I get my validation daily from a boat that will never leave the shore. Winner winner chicken dinner.
Quote from: Sputnik on April 06, 2017, 02:45:01 PMOthers who join and show results without mention what method they use so other can test....
I used a modified version of Follow the Pony. Tommy Renzoni, who introduced Baccarat to the US, mentioned it in his book. I bet on the side that won the previous hand and modified it by betting with the chops after three consecutive losses.
It works okay when the single chop strings are long, and it loses when they are short.
I lost 18 units using it on these real card, hand shuffled live shoes from Fairway.
#1
BPBPBPPBPBBBPPPPBBBTPTTBPBTBPPTBPBPBBPPBPPBPBBBPPBPBBPPPPTP
#2
PPPBPBBPBPPBBPBPBPBPBBPBBBTPPBBBBPPBPTBBPBBBPPPPPBPBBBPBPT
#3
PTBPBBPBPBBPBPBBPBBBPPBTBPPBBBPPPPBBBPBBBBPBBBTPPPPPPPBPPTBPBPP
#4
BPBPBPBTPBPPBPBBPBBBBBPPBBTPTBBBBBPBTBPPBPPPTPTPBBPBBBBPTPBBB
#5
PPBBPTPBBPBPPTPPTPPPBPPTTPBBPBBBPPBBBBBTBPBBPBPPPTBPBPBBBBBB
#6
PTBBPTTPTPBTPPTTPPBBBBPBBPBPPPBPPPBPBPBPBTBPBBPBBPBBPBPTPBT
I was getting ready to post my next 10 shoe results but I feel that it isn't right to add to thread with my results because I employ a mild progression which adulay isn't and I'm not sure about bailey. I just saw the post that asked why others aren't posting results and I thought I would join in. So I will replay my shoes using flat betting as adulay does so it's more apples to apples comparison. But I can say I'm sure adulay will be kicking my butt as my approach scores better with a mild progression.
Quote from: Trbfla on April 07, 2017, 11:13:35 AM
I was getting ready to post my next 10 shoe results but I feel that it isn't right to add to thread with my results because I employ a mild progression which adulay isn't and I'm not sure about bailey. I just saw the post that asked why others aren't posting results and I thought I would join in. So I will replay my shoes using flat betting as adulay does so it's more apples to apples comparison. But I can say I'm sure adulay will be kicking my butt as my approach scores better with a mild progression.
No need to make a contest out of it.
Just play the shoes the way you would when your money is on the table.
This allows the others to see the differences and the way others play the game.
Flat betting may work with one play but not another. Most people won't play it that way and will always utilize some type of Marty, no matter how small or large.
I'll post up one of the previous shoes, along with details of the play, sometime today when I get the scanner back online.
AD
ok, I was just thinking it wasn't the same since you are flat betting but I will post the next shoes
shoe 16 + 5
shoe 17 +11
shoe 18 +10
shoe 19 +9
shoe 20 -6
shoe 16-40 =39 units
using a 1, 2, 1, 1 2, 3 , 4 progression
Quote from: Trbfla on April 08, 2017, 04:24:56 AM
shoe 16 + 5
shoe 17 +11
shoe 18 +10
shoe 19 +9
shoe 20 -6
shoe 16-40 =39 units
using a 1, 2, 1, 1 2, 3 , 4 progression
Hello! Nice results. Regarding your progression, do you reset back to 1 on any win? Thanks
Quote from: jsintl on April 08, 2017, 11:30:30 AM
Hello! Nice results. Regarding your progression, do you reset back to 1 on any win? Thanks
I don't fully understand the progression, maybe there is a type error, because using a 1, 2, 1, 1 2, 3 , 4 progression is not logic.
First bet is 1 and second bet is 2 then back to 1 and 1 again then higher bets again 2 3 4 ...
I would understand if he use 1 2 2 where you win two first bet and accept -1 loss at the third bet and recoup with the other four bets, but that is not the case.
And 122 is the same thing as staking 111 where both win or break even with the two first bets and accept -1 unit loss at the end, from that i reckon you could build recoup progression.
So i assume 1 1 1 2 2 3 4 would be a option, but i have a hard time see that you bet higher at the beginning and then lower you bets and then again bet higher.
Cheers
How about a Positive progression.
Hey! I think we're falling behind on the shoe posting!!
I need my fix!
AD
yes me too.......perhaps we can continue on our own shoes???
Quote from: jsintl on April 08, 2017, 11:30:30 AM
Hello! Nice results. Regarding your progression, do you reset back to 1 on any win? Thanks
Yes after any win, I start over again
Quote from: Sputnik on April 08, 2017, 03:24:21 PM
I don't fully understand the progression, maybe there is a type error, because using a 1, 2, 1, 1 2, 3 , 4 progression is not logic.
First bet is 1 and second bet is 2 then back to 1 and 1 again then higher bets again 2 3 4 ...
I would understand if he use 1 2 2 where you win two first bet and accept -1 loss at the third bet and recoup with the other four bets, but that is not the case.
And 122 is the same thing as staking 111 where both win or break even with the two first bets and accept -1 unit loss at the end, from that i reckon you could build recoup progression.
So i assume 1 1 1 2 2 3 4 would be a option, but i have a hard time see that you bet higher at the beginning and then lower you bets and then again bet higher.
Cheers
Nick,
I start a mild progression with a 1 unit bet, If it wins, then I restart at 1 unit. If it losses, then I go to 2 units. if it losses then I go to 1 ect ect as a 1,2,1,1,2,3,4, progression.
What I know is that the majority of my bets with my bet selection win the first or second bet. I took a ton of shoes and knowing the percentages of the first bet or second or third or fourth ect. I matched it up with what would give me the largest return with a minimal risk. Please keep in mind I wanted a mm that was minimal in risk of ruin while still helping me achieve a small unit win per shoe.
My win goal isn't that high as I believe in betting larger chip size with small unit gains as opposed to trying to win more units at a lower unit size.
so for me its just about matching up winning percentages with the best mm .
Hope this helps
Thank You TRBFLA...
Could you please share your bet selection ?
Thank You !
More real card, hand shuffled shoes from Fairway.
1-BBBPBBPPPBPPBBBBPTPBPBPPPPPPPPPPPPBPPBTBPBBBPBPPBBPTBBBBBBBP
2-BBBBBPBBPPPTBPTTPPBTPTBPBBTPPPBPPBBPBPBBPPBPPBPTPBPBP
3-BPBPTPPPBPPBBTPBPPBPPPBBBBBTBPPPBBBPBBPBPPBBPPBPBPBPBBPBPPP
4-BBBBPPBBPBBBPBBBPPBBPBBPPTBTTBTPPBBPBBBBPPBBBBBPPBPBTBTB
5-BPTPBPBPPPBPBPPPPPPPPBPBPBBPPPBPPPPPBBPBBPBPPBBPPPPPBPB
6-PPPPBBBBPBBPPPPPPPBPBBBPBPBPPTPPBBPBBBBPBPBBBPPBBPBBPPPPBPBP
7-BPBPPBPPPPBBPBPBTBBBPBBPBPBPPBBTBBBBBBBBPPPPPBTBPPBPPPPPPBB
8-PBPPPPPPPBPPTPPBPPBBPBPBTBPPPPPBPPBPBPBPPTPBPPTBBBPBBBP
9-BTPBBPBTBBBBPPPPBBBBTBPPPPPTPPBPBPPBBPPPBPPPPBBTPBBBPBBBBBBP
10-BBBBBBPPBPPPPPBPPBTPPBBPBPBPPBPPBPPTBPPBBBBPBBPPTPBBBPBBBP
What happen to Bally? hope his ok!
Cheers
Hello guys, sorry but I have had some computer issues over the last few days and had to get it fixed and reinstall everything. That's everything back up and running now.
cheers