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Interesting 10 part article on the legendary Archie Karas who turned $ 50 into
$ 40,000,000 betting $ 300,000 on dice and baccarat......and then lost it all !

Recently arrested for cheating at blackjack in California and has been entered into the Nevada "Black Book" barring him from all the casinos in Nevada.

http://www.pokernews.com/search/news.htm?q=archie+karas

Best to start at article 1 and then go through the next 9 articles.

[Mars Rocks]

I remember reading the Archie Karas story years ago.  Somewhere he said how he won all that money (I guess you can call that his system)...his story is that he just didn't care about money, and that's why he won.
I now wonder about that.  Someone that doesn't care about money caught cheating.  Maybe he meant he didn't care about the casino's money lol.
Still, if you gamble for long enough there is an addiction there, it would be hard to not have gambling money after all those years.

[Mars Rocks]

The articles will not tell you and he will not admit the 'other' funds that he borrowed, stole or had from some other sources. 

He fully admits to borrowing $10k to start with.  He went to Vegas with $50 in his pocket but borrowed $10k to play poker.

Next time you go to the casino, idolize the fool and walk through the parking lot with your $50.00, $200.00 or $1,000.00 and repeat that you will make $40,000,000.00 soon gambling and indulge in whores, booze, suites and limo's.

I've already done the indulging and had a wonderful time.  When I get around to finding $10k I'll start my climb to fame (and maybe leave infamy behind).

He was a loser and always will be a loser. 

Your jealousy is showing again.  No need to be nasty.  He once played the current World Poker Champion heads up for his last million dollars and won.  That's just one time he was a winner.  He was a winner hundreds of times I'm sure.

[Mars Rocks]

I use the word infamy very loosely, I actually have a good job with a police clearance and haven't done much wrong.  I'm generally not known for mainstream views though and very few know my career achievements that I would go out of my way to be known for if I were a politician.  But rather I guess people talk about my eccentricities behind my back I'm sure.  Maybe it's just paranoia!

[HunchBacShrimp]

I read through all of these articles. Interesting read. But I do agree with alrelax. Archie Karas is a loser. We can probably add fool to that as well.

Only the greatest moron in history of the human race would turn 10k into 40 million and then turn 40 million into 0k. An amazing winning streak for sure. The most amazing? Probably not. It is only the fact that he kept parlaying his winnings into a larger and larger bet that attracted so much attention. I would wager other people have had winning streaks equal or greater in length than Mr. Karas, but did not relentlessly press their bets to the highest action possible.

A complete disregard for money is a good way bet big. Winning those bets makes you a big winner. But it was a double edged sword, a complete disregard for money is a good way to lose big. And that's what he did. Not just that time, but every time thereafter too! This Moron of Morons gambled up over a million dollars on several occasions after his big loss and still proceeded to lose it all back, again and again and again. Is this not the definition of insanity?

He said that if he had made 80 million he would have put half of it back. NONSENSE. Pure lies. He is deep in the throes of his addiction, a mindless gambler, no different than a mindless heroine addict that lives for nothing more than their next fix.

I don't like how people call him a gambler, because I am a gambler. But I'm not the ignorant moron this guy is. He clearly knows absolutely zip about gambling. He won his initial money in billiards, a game of skill. And he continued on to win millions more in head to head poker against the best in the world. Another game of skill. And here he is at the top. As an ex pool shark he should know (unless he's a moron) that once you are proven unbeatable, nobody will play you. So you win all you can until the cat is out of the bag.

But this guy is bored, the monkey of his addiction has grown into a gorilla. Now he's passing time at the craps and baccarat tables? Sure why not. Low stakes just to stay busy? employ some sort of MM scheme a large BR can handle? Nope. Table max every time, and then requests for larger table maxes.

In retrospect he realizes Binion got the upper hand with 300k pass line bets with no odds. Moving all of Archie's action off of the free odds and onto the house edge of the pass line. I call Bhullshite! I say he had no clue wtf he was doing and someone told him about how craps works and house edges after the fact. Moron.

And now he's caught cheating at cards? I thought cards were his game? a game of skill. Now all this does is offer suspicion that he was marking cards back in the day when he was playing all of the world's greatest poker players. Especially, if you reconsider the remark he made about not even looking at his hole cards as he called and raised bets. And reconsider the world of billiards, pool halls, hustlers and con men. Where he came from. Most likely a cheat from the days of shooting marbles.

Just exactly what kind of moron fails to create perpetual income, and therefore an unlimited number of buy ins, with 40 million dollars in capital? Archie Karas, that's who. Moron of Morons.

This guy just makes gamblers look bad.

HBS

[Mars Rocks]

You got it all upside down.

Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k.  These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big.  Well guess what...it doesn't happen.  Ask the machine players.  I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins.  Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making.  They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose.  So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out.  Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler.  He's a beggar or a hoper.  All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED.  A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes.  They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler.  The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts.  Why?  A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE.  The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff.  A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino.  Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose.  Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave.  Is this anyone on this forum? A: No.  Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK.  I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money.  They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made.  Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing.  Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.

Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict.  He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory.  But in doing so he's become the everyday loser.  He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER.  Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS.  They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory.  At least Archie once had glory.

[Rolex-Watch]

the monkey of his addiction has grown into a gorilla.

[smiley]cxp/lol.gif[/smiley]

[alrelax]

You got it all upside down.

Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k.  These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big.  Well guess what...it doesn't happen. 

SERIOUSLY, Great, one of the greatest things ever posted on this board.  So far into reality it stinks of Dad telling his son, to do something that Dad did a thousand times and son did maybe once. 

Nothing against anyone on this board, there is more slamming and talking down for the 'reality' and 'been there done that players' then I do believe any other board has.

And, yes the guy is a loser jerk, he is not a role model by any means or way.  Flat betting, wagering once or twice with one or two units or four units, waiting and waiting and waiting and then playing a small section of a shoe, you will go no where.  Do it and keep doing it.  You are entitled. 

I think my largest win in one night was at Mohegan Sun, right around $190k off a $12,000.00 buy-in.  I have won countless times $50k to $100k. Many times over $100k to $125k.  When I say 'Won', means cashing out, end of trip, leaving the casino.  Never got above that $200k mark.  I have bought in, initial bank roll (very seldom do that thing with changing money and repeated continual buy in's) with anywhere up to $50k, usually $10-20k when I was living in New Jersey because of the frequency we went, almost every week or several times a week.  Once moved off the east coast, the trips usually have a bankroll of $30 to $60k as a norm.  I learned one thing, if you can't do it off of your initial bankroll (IF THAT BR IS SOMETHING REALSTIC) and NOT talking about $1,000 or $2,500.00 at a $100 min table either, you cannot do it on that trip. 

Almost all of my sizable wins never cut deep into a bankroll,  Almost all of the sizable losses did cut deep into the BR and never stopped, no matter what I tried or where I went.

There is something in gambling no one has ever figured out and no one will ever.  It is the following:  When it is losing time, it is and you can't change it. 

[Mars Rocks]

There is something in gambling no one has ever figured out and no one will ever.  It is the following:  When it is losing time, it is and you can't change it.

I can relate to this and am interested in how you get out of the casino when it's losing time (or what your solution might be).  One of my biggest problems is I can't leave.  It's an insult to my soul when everything I do is wrong and I so strive to fix it and then so do more damage.  I can offer one piece of advice though...don't be a happy loser, because it makes it worse.  I now live by a quote from another famous (albeit degenerate) gambler..."show me a happy loser and I'll show you a loser".  The adage is far deeper than it first seems.

Again, I'm interested in ideas to deal with this situation.

[WorldBaccaratKing]

You got it all upside down.

Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k.  These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big.  Well guess what...it doesn't happen.  Ask the machine players.  I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins.  Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making.  They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose.  So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out.  Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler.  He's a beggar or a hoper.  All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED.  A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes.  They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler.  The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts.  Why?  A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE.  The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff.  A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino.  Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose.  Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave.  Is this anyone on this forum? A: No.  Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK.  I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money.  They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made.  Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing.  Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.

Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict.  He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory.  But in doing so he's become the everyday loser.  He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER.  Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS.  They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory.  At least Archie once had glory.

+1

Couldnt agree more. Send it in and either win big or go home. Why waste countless hours unless you're retired and a grinder. No way you could win millions doing this with a paltry 5-10k bankroll.

BUT, if you went with 5-10k and sent it in 2k a hand, got hot, let it ride, could easily hit for 100k or more....Fear would strike the casino.

[HunchBacShrimp]

You got it all upside down.

Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k.  These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big.  Well guess what...it doesn't happen.  Ask the machine players.  I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins.  Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making.  They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose.  So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out.  Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler.  He's a beggar or a hoper.  All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED.  A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes.  They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler.  The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts.  Why?  A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE.  The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff.  A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino.  Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose.  Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave.  Is this anyone on this forum? A: No.  Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK.  I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money.  They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made.  Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing.  Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.

Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict.  He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory.  But in doing so he's become the everyday loser.  He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER.  Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS.  They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory.  At least Archie once had glory.

No. I have the right of it. Your idolization of Archie Karas is misplaced.

You need to talk about units. 10k into 12k is the same as 100 bucks into 120 bucks. Not that difficult and I'm sure accomplished regularly by both the adept and the fool. Self professed intelligent gamblers aren't the problem. It's the author of this krap article and others that prop him up as some great gambler, when he is nothing more than a common failure. Betting small to win big is not my position, and go ahead and leave machine players out of it. They make no decisions, they just push the button. Only exception is VP.

Now I'm a Baccarat player, but regardless of my table game choice except Poker and BJ every game has a house edge. So by your definition even Archie Karas was 1. Unintelligent and 2. not a gambler but a BEGGAR AND A HOPER because the clown was playing craps with no strategy just flat betting hoping his luck would last forever. No, not hoping. Mentally incapacitated with a firm belief that he would never lose, could never lose, that he could continue to win more bets than he lost flat betting. Just like you said, all Archie Karas was get himself MORE addicted.

The casino loves every gambler. They have a built in edge. They do not love the gambler who charts past events any more than they love the gambler that plays on a whim. They gambler they love above all other gamblers is the one that it under funded. Which is Archie Karas. Turning his 40mil into 133 betting units of 300k. Except that isn't accurate. He made 300k pass line bets and then placed/bought number on top of that. So we are looking at 500k to 1mil in action. That reduces his bankroll to 40 to 80 units. Moron.

How is the definition of a REAL gambler someone who continues to run his bets up until he strikes fear into HIMSELF? and the casino?. What the H E double hockey sticks are you talking about, or thinking..... Bet the max and go home? Archie bet the max, but never went home, so again by your definition he is not a real gambler "...take it if you lose.." Archie didn't take it, he rebet and rebet, and had his money boxes drilled open so he could get to more of his money and win back his losses. HE DIDN'T ACCEPT LOSING GOT MORE MONEY AND TRIED TO WIN HIS LAST ROLL BACK.

one or two intelligent gamblers here who would like to borrow money? ARCHIE BORROWED MONEY CONTINOUSLY!!!

Again by your very own definition Archie Karas is no gambler, because he "...can't take losing..." Part of your gambling definition is accepting accepting the outcome of your wagers. Archie Karas clearly refused to accept the outcome of his wagers MORE THAN ANY GAMBLER EVER. Not just this 40million dollar failure, but all of his mini runs after this one. Several of which were again in the millions. So after being taught one of the biggest lessons you can learn in gambling to the tune of 40mil, he made the same mistake again, and again, and again. How can he be anything other than the greatest moron that ever lived?

Glory? what the heck are you talking about? Oh he suffers from a life destroying addiction, he's broke, labeled a cheat, and banned from every casino in Nevada. But he's got Glory in the eyes of the misguided! I bet that let's him get a good nights sleep, in the gutter, with a concrete curb for a pillow.

He isn't just now addicted, he was addicted long before he started this glorious run of legendary losses.

The writing of the article is misleading garbage. Archie Karas was born in 1951. In 1992 he was 41 years old. He didn't just arrive in the USA with 50 bucks and turn it into 40mil. Not at all. He spent 20 years in pool halls learning how to hustle, and 20 years in backroom poker games learning how to cheat and not get cheated. Archie Karas was a 20 year loser before he became INFAMOUS. He even had to start his run on BORROWED MONEY. And in the 20 years following his INFAMOUS RUN, he continues to be the same loser. A hopeless gambler. In his very own words he says ".... I always knew I could get back to where I was....."

By your own definition he's unintelligent and not a gambler. Fornicate a bunch of GLORY, I'll be a moron by your definition, it is obviously the smarter and more successful choice.

Quit idolizing this guy before you become just like him.

HBS

[HunchBacShrimp]

+1

Couldnt agree more. Send it in and either win big or go home. Why waste countless hours unless you're retired and a grinder. No way you could win millions doing this with a paltry 5-10k bankroll.

BUT, if you went with 5-10k and sent it in 2k a hand, got hot, let it ride, could easily hit for 100k or more....Fear would strike the casino.

That's the thing. He did send it in. He won big. And from there? he kept sending it in, and when he lost? he didn't go home. He got more and more and more until he had nothing.

Nobody is advocating spending countless hours grinding up 40 million $25 at a time. Winning 100k with a 2k bet is turning 1u into 50 units with a 5u bank roll. "getting hot" is a rare occurrence. How many times are you going to lose that first bet because you are 'cold'? how often are you going to lose those parlays because you are 'neutral'? How many more times are you going to buy in looking for that 'hot' streak?

"...could easily hit 100k..." Er... with a house edge slightly against you, it will always be slightly more 'easier' to not hit 100k parlaying your bets. It actually takes less over all losses to thwart a parlay, so winning more than half your bets is a hot streak, but an aggressive parlay can still fail in this environment.

And Archie wasn't letting it ride, he was trying to flat bet his way to unlimited wealth. So lets back up and buy in for 10k and flat bet 2k units and see just how hot that streak has to be to hit 100k in profit.

What "fear" are you talking about? The casino only fears cheaters and BJ card counting teams.

HBS

[alrelax]

 

What "fear" are you talking about? The casino only fears cheaters and BJ card counting teams.

HBS

You are absolutely correct,  casinos will not throw out or ban 'skilled baccarat players', never ever.  If they ever did there was more to it than you think.  Sit down and win 1 or 5 or 10 million at baccarat and all you will see is a constant few suits in the pit, nearby. 

[HunchBacShrimp]

I can relate to this and am interested in how you get out of the casino when it's losing time (or what your solution might be).  One of my biggest problems is I can't leave.  It's an insult to my soul when everything I do is wrong and I so strive to fix it and then so do more damage.  I can offer one piece of advice though...don't be a happy loser, because it makes it worse.  I now live by a quote from another famous (albeit degenerate) gambler..."show me a happy loser and I'll show you a loser".  The adage is far deeper than it first seems.

Again, I'm interested in ideas to deal with this situation.

Are you absolutely kidding me?! I mean FORK! You can't accept your own losses!? I thought that is how you defined a gambler? ".... accepting the outcome of your wagers..." You lost! accept it and go home.

Are you telling me you re buy in after you lose your BR? So it is YOU that is the THEY in "THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING.....THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY TO WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK..."

Well, you sure seem to be '...an intelligent gambler that has it all worked out.."  You want to borrow some money?

Take your own advice, and spend the next 80 years practicing without real money.

HBS


PS   *sigh* Your problem is easily fixed, and you shouldn't have had to come here to find a solution. It's not a good sign that you did/do.

Just take your buy in to the casino. Leave your credit/debit cards at home. Leave your check book at home. Make sure you have plenty of fuel in your vehicle to get you home and bring a cooler/lunchbox and pack a few sandwiches and some drinking water in it. This way when you bust, you can't re buy in, you have food and water if you can't get a meal comp, and you have fuel to get home.

Most importantly, do not go back to the casino for at least a week after a bust. You need to clear your head of it. If you are like me and go to the casino on the weekends, then skip the next trip, and stay away for 2 weeks. I took a 3 month hiatus after my last 'session bank roll' busting. 

HBS

[HunchBacShrimp]

Alrelax,

Most of my larger session wins come without cutting deep into my BR as well. Twice recently I only bought in for half my normal amount, never got down more than a quarter of that 1/2 buy in and hit my win goal. I think some of the reasons the big wins don't normally come after huge draw downs is because of being gun shy. After a large draw down or a struggling session, one tends be satisfied getting to even or pulling in a small profit. Also, it takes more time to win big after steady losses. One could be out of time or just fatigued when it is time to continue to press on for larger profits.

What I find most aggravating is that all of my biggest winning streaks are after large draw downs. Lose 60 units and grind back those 60 and 5 more with the remaining 20u. It would be nice to win the 65 units out of the gate without losing the 60u first. Of course, I'm aware my win goal is an obstacle. But you get my drift.

HBS