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[8OR9]

Here is an article on baccarat...mostly just general common knowledge....but maybe  one or two comments which may be of interest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidschwartz/2018/06/21/why-casinos-love-and-fear-baccarat-the-worlds-biggest-gambling-game/#283cc6d44188

[owenslv]

Hi 8OR9;

Thanks for posting. I found the article both interesting and inspiring. It certainly gives  a player some perspective on betting maximums and potential earnings doesn't it ?

[8OR9]

The  scariest statistic for baccarat players was that Macaus 40 casinos mad $ 30 billion profit in 2017 from baccarat.

[alrelax]

I read the article.  Without getting too much into it, the part about blaming the Asians for the dress code and the change from the original big tables to Midi or Macau style is only partially correct.  I do have several members of my immediate family into casino management with MGM, CET and another large brand, not that they were instrumental in the change over, but I did hear them talking of the 'why' and the corporate meetings and what was said as to the large-industry wide USA change over. 

As far as the casino risk.  All games have that naturally.  Where the 100 times the average wager comes from, is beyond me.  It could be a lot less with larger wagers or anything else.  As far as withstanding 100 winning wagers of any substantial amount in any one sitting, that is huge, not impossible, but right up there with being near impossible for the masses attempting it.  Problem being, the emotional and the desire once winning.  Players can not and will not, wager say, $500 a hand and then jump to $10,000 table max or $25,000 table max, they win a few at $25k say, and then go back down to $500, wait and wait and wait, and then start again at $25k a hand and win and win and get to 10winning wagers.  It just that it is emotionally next to impossible. 

Not that 100 winning wagers cannot happen, but huge bank roll that people having millions and millions of dollars for a bank roll have different business desires and don't risk it on gambling baccarat.  As far as a rare player or two getting to a huge win, at times, but the casino collects from the 99.99 plus percent that lose and consistently lose with every kind of bank roll from a few dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

To myself, the article is written pro-casino with a free lance PR person that is somehow connected to the casino industry.  It is a teaser article in disguise, as I see it.  Just like a brochure for a casino, 'hey it is possible', just step up and try.

(I went back to see whom the author was.  I see it is David Schwartz, whom I am very well familiar with.  While my first gut instinct was correct, pro-casino or casino PR type of person, he writes from a semi-partisan type of authorship.  He is pretty well factual with a touch of third-party casino employee/management or player opinions at times.  The article describes with limited touches and lots of factual history missing in reality.)

[owenslv]

Hey 8or9;

I take that statistic of the casinos in Macau earning $30B off baccarat as a positive. Think about it:  If they are making that kind of income, they will keep the game going. Also, it should be relatively easy, to "stay under the radar" and earn $100K at a session without raising too much suspicion. ($100k vs.$30B)

Garry

[marinetech]

If you or anyone claim to make 100k a year, I would have to see it to believe it...

100k could be 10 million if you have brains....

[owenslv]

Hi Marinetech;

Yes, I have brains and can do the math. The point of my comment was to reinforce the fact that since there are players making $150K bets in Vegas and $500K bets in Macau, skillful players should be able to make substantial amounts cash by betting substantially less and thereby go relatively unnoticed. That is quite an opportunity, wouldn't you agree?

[marinetech]

On paper I agree...when you plunk down cash and fear sets in when you lose 10 in a row,,,,this is what separates the men from the boys.....

If someone is betting 500k a hand, they have more money than brains. They're not grinding out cash to pay their mortgage or utility bill for the month.

[alrelax]

On paper I agree...when you plunk down cash and fear sets in when you lose 10 in a row,,,,this is what separates the men from the boys.....

If someone is betting 500k a hand, they have more money than brains. They're not grinding out cash to pay their mortgage or utility bill for the month.

Frustration, clouded vision, watching their bankroll/buy-in dwindle, applying hype or anything else that might not be working to their beliefs/thoughts, etc.  It all plays a huge role in how they wager and how they handle a loss or a win.

More so than anything else, is the player's failure to 'Reset & Refresh' continuously, hard to do---yes, but has to be done to improve a players chance of prevailing.

As far the larger wagering amounts, yes there are private rooms for the whales and the players that bring in excess of $250k front money or have those kind of credit lines, the larger casinos have them such as the Bellagio, The Wynn, MGM Grand, Caesar's Palace, etc.  However, many do play within the open tables in the high limit rooms with higher table max's.  While I never have gone over the posted table max's by any means, I have played along side those types many times.  Almost every one of them ultimately got wiped out.  A few have won nice sums but ways gave it back and those few would stop when the got even.  The majority of them do not, the same as the regualr players with smaller sums of bank rolls and buy-ins.

Might be interesting to note, some time around the early 2000's the term 'whale' was just about industry wide in the USA downgraded somewhat.  Prior to that, is was pretty much $750k/$1-M for the classification.  The whales pretty much dwindled away and were becoming obsolete.  The larger casinos and the marketing director's in charge of the hosts, pretty much downgraded a whale to being a player with a consistent $150k to the $300k range with front money and established 'good' markers. 

Fitting into the realm of the classification by most casinos:  Main Floor Player/Comps from card-no other consideration, etc.; Regular/Known high-limit player, average and uses a floor host if needs something not available on his players card, etc.;  Well Known/VIP high-limit player, has host assigned by corresponding nationality (as a norm) and receives full RF&B or RFB&I, airfare reimbursement or even prepaid airfare and other perks, some type of loss rebate and promo advantages, a limited amount of hard comps issued (comp's to cover off property entertainment F&B or FB&I outside the casino property), etc.;  Then the 'Whales', which would be full RFB&I, full transportation, Villas, set programs for loss rebates and rolling promo schedules and almost any hard comps for all requested FB&I outside of the casino property as well, etc. 

[owenslv]

Marinetech;

The reason fear sets in when you place a bet over a certain level has to come from previous conditioning and that can be overcome. We all have acquired, through experience, various levels of skill. For example if you were to (hypothetically) go back and examine every session you ever played at baccarat to discover how much, on average you were "ahead" at some point, you would discover an average amount.

Instead of thinking in terms of money, think in terms of chips. So, lets say, for example after examining the results of your last 100 sessions you discover that, on average you always seem to reach a level of 8 chips ahead before losing.

In other words you could state that your personal skill level was around 8 chips session. Now, with that discovery, what if on your next session, you decided that once you reached 5 chips ahead you would leave the table with a profit. And for protection, if you lost 5 chips you would also leave. Conservative, realistic and practical.

And finally, what if you were able to build your resources to the point where your goal was to still make only 5 chips, but now your bets are $10k each.? You know that at the $25 level you would consistently make $125 and now at the $10K level, the procedure is precisely the same, and you have done it repeatedly in the past, which gives the confidence to proceed.

That is what I mean by conditioning yourself for handling the larger bets/wins.

What do  think?

[AsymBacGuy]

Actually very high stakes players flat betting the maximum limit are the only ones who are sure to lose the expected, nothing more but very often less as their losses are decurted by a variable percentage not speaking about comps, gifts, etc.

The rest of the players are destined to lose a lot more than the maximum edge of 1.25%....

Yes itlr a $100.000 bet gives $1250 to the casino, but such players might put a huge dent in casino's pockets in case of long positive streaks and players can't do anything worse than be 1.25% disadvantaged in case of negative situations. 

as.



 

[alrelax]

Actually very high stakes players flat betting the maximum limit are the only ones who are sure to lose the expected, nothing more but very often less as their losses are decurted by a variable percentage not speaking about comps, gifts, etc.

The rest of the players are destined to lose a lot more than the maximum edge of 1.25%....

Yes itlr a $100.000 bet gives $1250 to the casino, but such players might put a huge dent in casino's pockets in case of long positive streaks and players can't do anything worse than be 1.25% disadvantaged in case of negative situations. 

as.

By 'theory' on paper and within a live casino, are two total different stories.  Countless people will argue until they physically pass away as to what can and cannot be made gambling.  The highest majority of them are 'paper' people figuring the numbers. 

I have said it before, I have no experience on-line and never will.  However, in a live casino there are numerous other factors which do weigh heavy with one's success' or failures, he will realize.  Those factors are never and cannot really be figured into the 'paper' people's calculations of things. 

And really, it is about the same using most items, services, or training, etc., with the agenda, protocols and intensity one employs when he engages with the products or the teachings he received and his application of such to whatever it is he is trying to accomplish.