+ Register

[Wewin2222]

Something I found and agree with while surfing the Internet.


My name is E. Clifton Davis. That is the name I was born with in 1940. I am a retired Math Professor from a major University with a clinically evaluated 160 IQ. I am degreed in Engineering, Architecture and Business.

I put the first Baccarat system ever to pen 20 years ago. It did $660,000 in sales in the fisrt three weeks. I've written a dozen more since. My Bac books have far outsold all other Bac books in the world put together. The only thing in gaming to outsell my Bac books is my BJ books, 8000 to date. I wrote NBJ (New Blackjack), WCB (World Class Blackjack) and In Search Of (the winning game). The only winning BJ players in the world today are my players taugt by me. I consider a winning player one who is ahead at the end of a year after all taxes and expenses. I have the only professional players in the world. I consider a professional player as one who plays full time for a living with no other source of income.

I placed second in the million dollar World Championship Of Baccarat at Caesars'. While I was high money winner, one of my 4 remaining opponents hit a triple tie in the last 3 plays of the tournament and edged me out. I should have bet ties right along with him but alas...

I put my money where my mouth is. I have performed countless public casino exhibitions all over the U.S. both in Baccarat and BJ W/O ever losing a single one. The most memorable were Taj 1 and 2, where in both instances I won exactly $10,000 in less than a half hour W/O ever betting more than $200 in head to head high stakes pit BJ play in front of hundreds of invited spectators. I know of no other instructor who has ever performed a single one save Jerry Patterson but he lost.

I played NBJ full time in A.C. for three years W/O a single losing day - something I could teach any of you to do. It's not nearly as difficult as you think.

When any of you can perform these simple feats, THEN, I will listen to your criticisms but until then please excuse me while I yawn.

Yes, I am very successful in the business end of gambling instruction. Probably far more than you realize. Probably more than all other instructors put together. But consider why that is. Players drift from instructor to instructor until they get to me. The buck stops here. Thousands of counters quit counting to play NBJ but no NBJ player ever took up counting. It's the same in Bac. Players that get here stay here.

But I don't apologize for my business successes. Success doesn't make me wrong any more than working for free makes you right. Much more to the contrary methinks.

We did not abandon The Twister. We simply finished perfecting it. We would not abandon a winning system. For instance Wolfat, here, whom I have never met, recently completed his fifth winning trip with Twister playing in Italy, Monte Carlo and Atlantic City. Paid for his lifetime membership 20 times over.

Now we are completing the final perfections to Universal SAP. No one has lost with it in a casino. It is an extremely clever system with no losing pattern, unlike ALL other systems. SAP has nothing to do with changing your prog as announced here. It has to do with losing to the least common event. When the least common event changes the system automatically changes to the new least common event. Think about it! You've got to lose to something! Wouldn't you best lose to the least common event and win to the most common events. THAT is what SAP does. Ridicule it if you must but that won't stop it from winning. Nothing will. The casinos can't hit a moving target.

Baccarat isn't about math or patterns or progressions. Baccarat is about cheating. Casino cheating in Baccarat is simple to prove. Look, commission is 1.25% of the money bet on average. O.K its 5% of the money bet on a Bank win. On avg you bet on Bank half the time and win half of those bets. So commission is 5/4 = 1.25% of the total money bet. That's not trick math. Its common ordinary straight 4th grade math. So their Baccarat profits should be 1.25% of the money bet. But its not is it. Casinos must, by law, publish their profits anually to the public. One of the places they do this is right on their own TV specials. They publish a profit of 16%. On TV THEY call it 16% of the money bet. Some argue that no, its 16% of the drop like it used to be years ago. It doesn't matter. The two totals are not that different esp when you consider that many people buy in huge since that is the number one comp factor.

But look at what 16% of the money bet means: take an aggressive ten dollar player than averages $20 a play. His commission will average 1.25% of 1440 or $18. Sound about right? At 14.75% (16 - 1.25)of the money bet, his average loss will be $212. Sound about right? Well it does to me and I've played more Bac than all of you put together.

So the question is: How did the casino profits get from $18 to $18+$212? Where does this extra $212 come from?

Poor players? How do you play poorly in a 50 - 50 game? That's like playing poorly in a coin toss. Can't be done!

There's only one way. They cheat. I'm not talking slight of hand here. God knows they do enough of that - like the chip pile break down trick at Foxwood which I've seen gain the casino an extra $70,000in a few shoes. I'm not talking about the dealer dealing to his right hand and snatching two cards for Player and Bank and making whichever side win that he wants as I have caught them red handed doing at Turning Stone. All that is bad enough. That's why we teach casino cheating here. But that only accounts for a very small part of the 16%. I'm talking about biasing the shoe through shuffle control, against the majority of the players.

That's not cheating? Try it in a saturday night Poker game!

That is where the extra 14.75% profits comes from. And thank God! or more accurately, the casinos. BECAUSE if they didn't cheat it would be exactly like one of you said. It would be impossible to win. That's what I teach, how to use the casino's own cheating against them.

Don't believe any of it. Well its all public record. You aren't really naive enough to think that casinos could survive on 1.25%, are you? No corporation does. If so, stay away from casinos. You're too unintelligent to play.

Just one other thing while I have your undivided attention. Guys, haven't you ever heard of the United States copyright laws? Granted, college profs get extra mandatory training in the copyright laws because it is illegal to disseminate work done by others but you guys must have at least heard of them. What you are doing here is patently illegal and the federal courts are having a field day right now with ignorant people disseminating copied CD's. Look, I've already sued in Federal court very successfully and I know the ropes and I have an excellent copyright lawyer who formally copyrights ALL my work. You guys are sitting ducks and more than enough proof exists right here in black and white on your website. I really don't want to sue you guys. I got more lucrative things to do.

This was a good read and I am posting this because I agree with what he said!!

Wewin2222

[Lungyeh]

So he has launched a new system MvD? Alrelax, what are your views on Clifton Davies?

[alrelax]

To me, it sure sound as thou it is kind of double-talk for a straight up system and anther Dr. Bac type of sales pitch.  Give me money and I will teach you some of my experience and what should work, hopefully work the majority of the times-remember you can still lose, etc.  That is what I feel it is, I kind of remember looking into some of it before.

I am more into specifics like I have been laying out, like Sections-Point Values-Money Management-Turning Points, Player's Plateaus, etc.  That is what helped me and what I do my best on. 

[vo rogue]

i disagree with cliffy ,(THE ONLY BLACK JACK PROS IN THE WORLD WERE TAUGHT BY ME) davis, the sheer modesty of the man.   the casinos don't need to cheat to make their 16% profit, because a HUGE majority of players (my wife included) lose their whole buyin, and re-buyin and pawn their gold rings , not just the 1.25% disadvantage to the player.   THE reason people push cheating casinos is, they have something to SELL, or they have lost their $ and its easy to blame some other factor than themselves. in gambling you have to be honest with yourself, not kid yourself that this and that is to blame, and keep record of wins and losses, at the end of the week mth year, you can assess if you are happy to keep playing, or maybe your$ are better off used for other purposes in your life.
             ATTENTION NEWBIES DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM FAIRYGODMOTHERS ON THE NET. please educate yourself about gambling and bacc, i have learnt alot about this game from the honest posters of this forum, if you take time to read posts from say jimske, rolex watch, gr8 player and many others over the yrs, and play small as possible on the net or at b & ms and build knowledge and a bankroll you give yourself a fightin chance.
           IF you read people on here claiming big wins or they have the game beat, don't PM them cause all they want is your $. its hard enough to win in life, then you have lowlifes trying to scam fellow humans, that's why i abhor (hate is a bit strong) people coming on the forum like we were born yesterday and telling us that so and so is making $$$$$$$ and has not lost since the first moon landing.  as others have said KNOWLEDGE BANKROLL DISCIPLINE.  cheers

[Sputnik]

Now we are completing the final perfections to Universal SAP. No one has lost with it in a casino. It is an extremely clever system with no losing pattern, unlike ALL other systems. SAP has nothing to do with changing your prog as announced here. It has to do with losing to the least common event. When the least common event changes the system automatically changes to the new least common event. Think about it! You've got to lose to something! Wouldn't you best lose to the least common event and win to the most common events. THAT is what SAP does. Ridicule it if you must but that won't stop it from winning. Nothing will. The casinos can't hit a moving target.

I apoliges for my poor English - but i have to admit that the approch above is very much how i do things when i explore selection methods - so i like it very much.
Look at the beat the casino forum and can see he is not Selling any more, he take 50 Euro each mounth for membership if i understand it correct.
And for that Money you get acces to all known material.

My question is if there is a higher level of understanding and a higher level of quality on that forum board then this one.
If yes then it might be Worth 50 Euro a mounth and if No it would not be Worth 50 Euro a mounth.

The thing is i have seen very Little negative talk from any one who claim being paid member of his forum or having his material.

I don't see anything wrong with paying for information and material if the standard is higher then your average gambling forum.
If you can skip garbage from GR8 among other members who only trolling about baccarat - then is Worth 50 Euro to get the real deal.

Cheers

[mb201333]

As best I can tell, when you look at SAP and all the other  things being presented,  it is not very far from  what many are trying to project on this forum.  We all know you can't follow the same thing all the time.
I think we agree,  we are trying to find what the shoe is producing at the moment!   Ellis is telling you his program finds all the changes in the shoe.   As always,  we  need to take it with a grain of salt.  Anything can work for a while.  Or Not!!!   It's  all about the  timing.    Please don't believe anything can be followed without  Patience,  Discipline  and Clear thinking.  I find the most important is a clear thought process.

As it has been said many times.  We must look at what is happening now and in each section of the shoes.
If you buy  into the program,  I believe they also teach to constantly evaluate changes and fluctuation.

I like to use all the resources possible to keep the mind set on track.

[Wewin2222]

I do agree with sections to some degree, and it is not a bad thought process. If you have played and more importantly studied or become a student of the game, you should have many thought processes. I was having lunch with a guy that I have known for many years and I asked him a simple question. Keep in mind that this man has more than 20 years of experience playing the game of baccarat and an untold number of sessions.

Question: when the shoe goes three banks or three players, how do you know if it is going to continue or break.

Answer: He said nobody knows we are all the same, nobody knows so you just have to go with your gut.

I obviously disagreed with him, however I did not voice my disagreement since he was a long time friend. To tell you the truth he plays all the time but he is not a student of the game and uses the same approach day in and day out.

My thought process and what I have observed is this; If i Waite until the shoe does 3 banks and then I bet against the bank or bet the break. let's say that I have won 8 large wagers betting this way. I can promise you that the shoe will change, the casino will not continue to let you eat their lunch. The cards will change and this is the TRUTH, PEARL OF WISDOM ect. (When you notice the 3 and break doesn't happen, you then have the casino right where you want them) They have adjusted the shoe to take your money because they have been bent over the barrel long enough and it's time for them to plug the holes and stop the bleeding. However a truly experienced player will change with the casino and increase his wager!! Who knows if he has the capital he might give the casino clowns a new address. If I'm lying I'm dying, give it a try sometime and see what happens!!

Wewin2222

[caddy]

This guy Davis is a scammer.

[Lungyeh]

Caddy, why do you say that?

[brokerny]

whenever a story sounds too good to be true, than its just that. like alrelax said, its double talk. the guy is just glorifying his story and anyone claiming that he doesn't lose with a SYSTEM is a lie.

[Sputnik]

I PM the support function yesterday and still no answear - that is not a good sign as you want rapid answear if you have a question or a issue - but i will give some more Days.

Honestly i can say that one sale pitch that i don't like is that he say in one video that the stay at the best hotells and casinos and play baccarat and winning big - he is glorify the hole thing.
That is a no, no in my book.

But at the other side of the coin he claim having long term members who play on Daily basis as proffesionals, so to interact with them has high value, if it is the truth.
Who can give you better advice then does who make a living on playing?

Now is pretty clear that gamblers like John Patrick Selling books and has his Sport Service and own forum board.
So his main income is not gambling.

I assume same situation with beat the casino forum, he get paid by costummers who want to learn how to play and he become your mentor and for that you have to put up the Money.
So the question is that if you have the guts to pay 600 Euro for one year and during that year you get proffesional advice and help from the real punters.

But if you don't have a minimum of 6 number bankroll for playing the game full time, then you would not educate your self and invest 600 Euro for there expertise.
I can use my fingers on one hand to list how many has a 6 number bankroll at this forum board and will not use all my five fingers.
Same goes for full time players who depend on gamling as main income with no other source of income.

It boild down to one thing only - is the discussion with a higher level then your average forum board and are the members at his forum the real punters wish he claim they are or at least some of them.
I would with no doubt pay 600 Euro a year for studing the game at a higher level of understanding if i know with gurantee that 3 to 5 members would be my mentors and there only income is as full time gamblers.

He also state above that all methods or system has its losing pattern, so he is not saying that any method or system is 100% gurantee.
And other angel is that you get nothing buying roulette books, they all include the same stuff, basic probabiltiy, different progressions and favorite methods with succés storys.
The first step to becoma a Winner is to realiase the there is no such thing as the HG.

This guy Davis is a scammer.

You might be right - but can you back up your claim and show us does who has been members that are disiponted and also think he is a scammer - i have not seen any public complains - have you?
You can not just say that some one is a scammer - you have to eloberate and tell us more when and where and who mention that it is a scam and in what situation.

Should also mention that it would be strange if proffesionals pay 600 EURO a year to be part of a forum board with pepole with less skills - does who want to learn.
If i remember it correct Adulay was or is moderator at beat the casino - maybe i am wrong but that is what i some one once mention.
Don't belive he pay anything to be part of communtiy.

So this members whish suppose to be long term proffesional might have free membership with full acces.
Not sure how that work.

Cheers

[alrelax]

I personally never purchased any systems.  I have purchased numerous books with only a couple having a portion devoted to techniques and money management thoughts and suggestions.  Most of the content was pretty spot on and useful.  But as far as the straight up books and programs that are preaching 'guaranteed wins' IMO cannot and do not prevail.  I have talked to so many people that spent from $500.00 to $7,500.00 ranges and will testify about their ineffective information.  The bottom line after checking many out, is that the info and techniques are about 30-50%.  And that is about exactly what they work at if all situations are in favor of the info presented. 

[Nathan Detroit5]

I have never m ever bought any gambling system.

There are enough books by   gambling gurus available . Just to name a few:.

FS, JP, HT, TS, BM, VB


All 6 might not cost more than  $ 125.  Can`t go wrong with that amount.

[Wewin2222]

 I don't have a problem buying a good or a bad system it is just information. At the end of the day it is someone's personal opinion and they believe it will work. If it works you can use it to your advantage and if it doesn't work you can use it to your advantage since Baccarat is a 50-50 game. I don't think anyone will give away their most prized secrets unless they're on their death bed and then it would have to be to someone they trusted or cared about. I posted the above topic because I agree with what he said, I didn't hear him mention anything about selling a system. If you make money playing Baccarat I am happy for you, if you don't make money, get out of the game or continue to learn and fight. You have to keep learning, that is a must!! My testimony is this, I have walked with Jesus Christ throughout the years of playing this game and he has dropped into my spirit somethings that I needed to study and consider while playing Baccarat. I have applied what He has taught me and it works for me. The good news is Jesus is no respector of persons, what He will do for one, He will do to another.

Wewin2222

[Smoothie]

I don't have a problem buying a good or a bad system it is just information. At the end of the day it is someone's personal opinion and they believe it will work. If it works you can use it to your advantage and if it doesn't work you can use it to your advantage since Baccarat is a 50-50 game. I don't think anyone will give away their most prized secrets unless they're on their death bed and then it would have to be to someone they trusted or cared about. I posted the above topic because I agree with what he said, I didn't hear him mention anything about selling a system. If you make money playing Baccarat I am happy for you, if you don't make money, get out of the game or continue to learn and fight. You have to keep learning, that is a must!! My testimony is this, I have walked with Jesus Christ throughout the years of playing this game and he has dropped into my spirit somethings that I needed to study and consider while playing Baccarat. I have applied what He has taught me and it works for me. The good news is Jesus is no respector of persons, what He will do for one, He will do to another.

Wewin2222

Amen and amen!