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Forums => Baccarat Forum => Topic started by: Atlantis on July 20, 2015, 11:17:17 AM

Title: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 20, 2015, 11:17:17 AM
Hello All,

Adapted from a similar roulette system:

Betting the side of the EC that predominates the most in the last 3 vertical results of a matrix grid column ONCE ONLY **but only after a "WL" result appears**

Playing on BACCARAT ONLY

Using the 3-bet cyclic unit progressions:
1-1-2
1-2-2
2-2-2
2-2-3
2-3-3
3-3-3......etc.

If all 3 bets in a cycle are lost move up to next bet cycle.

If a win occurs in a cycle then restart from the beginning of that cycle progression line --- UNLESS level or ahead OVERALL in which case restart from default cycle 1 (1-1-2)

Record (P)layer and (B)anker results in horizontal lines of 3 results in a matrix grid...

PBP
PBB
PPB             Start Cycle = 1-1-2
PPP  WLL     -1  L1   Reminder: bet only once after a WL formation
BPP   LWL     
BPB   LWL     -2 L1
BBP  WLW    +0 W2; +1 W1
PPB   LWL    +2 W1
BBP   WLL    +1 L1
BPP   WLW   +2 W1
PPB   LWL     +3 W1
PBP   LLW     +2 L1
BPB   LWL     +3 W1
PBB   WLW    +4 W1 ; +5 W1
PPP   WLL     +4 L1
PPP   WWL
PBB    WLL     +4 W1 
BBB     LLL     
PBP    WWL   
BPB    LLW      +3 L1
PPB    LLW      +2 L1
BPP    LWL      +4 W2
PBP    LLL       +3 L1
BPB    LWL       
PBB    LLL        +2 L1
PPB    WLW     +4 W2
BPP    LWL      +5 W1
PPP    WWL    +6 W1
PBP     WLW    +7 W1 ; +8 W1
PPP    WWW
BBB     LLL       +7 L1
PBB     WWL
PPP     WLL      +8 W1 ; +7 L1
PBB     WWW
PBB     WWW
PBP     WWL
PBB      WWW  +8 W1
BBP      LWL      +9 W1
PPB      WLW     +10 W1; +11 W1
BBP      LWL      +12 W1
PPP     LWW      +11 L1
BPP     LWW      +12 W1
PPP     LWW      +13  W1
PPB     WWL
PBB     WLL       +14 W1; +13 L1
BPB     LWW     
BBP     LLL         +12 L1
PPB     LLW       
BBP     WLL        +10 L2 (up to 1-2-2 series for next bet)
BPB     WLL        +9 L1
BPP     WWL
PPP     LWW       +7 L2
BPP     WWW
PPP     LWW       +9 W2
PPB     WWL
PBP     WLW       +10 W1  ; +11 W1
BBP      LLW        +10 L1
PPP     WLW       +12 W2
PPP     WLW       +13 W1
BPP     LWW       +14 W1 (down to 1-1-2 series)
BBP     LLW         +13 L1
PPB     LWL         +14 W1
PBP     LLW         +13 L1
BBP     LWW        +14 W1
BPP     LLW         +13 L1
BBP     WWW
BPB     WLL         +12 L1
PPB     LWL
BPP     WWL        +14 W2
PPP     LWL          +13 L1
PPP     WWW       +14 W1
PPB     WWL
PBB     WLL           +15 W1; +14 L1
PBP     WLL           +13 L1
PBB     WWW
BBB     LWW          +15 W2
PBP    WWL
PBP    W *STOP*    +16 W1

+16 profit (less %commissions for B wins)
232 results
Highest bet=2

Atlantis.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: tdx on July 21, 2015, 01:16:30 AM
interesting method.......as far as baccarat goes, do you have any profit or loss objective for a shoe ...or do you quit the shoe when it just feels right ?
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 21, 2015, 08:15:26 AM
Hi tdx,

I play for abt 3 to 5u profit and stop.
Also if I go to -7 or -8 I may stop too - depending on how I feel things are going.
I track the last 9 results into the grid before starting recording the W/L's for the trigger. I stop and retrack the new 9 results on a new shoe or reshuffle before any continuation.
I'm in UK and play live dealer online (small stakes)

A.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: WorldBaccaratKing on July 21, 2015, 11:32:38 AM
BPP   LWL     
BPB   LWL     -2 L1

how is that a loss?
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 21, 2015, 12:04:31 PM
Hi WorldBaccaratKing,

PBP
PBB
PPB   Start Cycle = 1-1-2
PPP   WLL        -1  L1        Reminder: bet only once after a WL formation
BPP   LWL                        WL trigger
BPB   LWL       -2   L1       New WL trigger... (next bet =2u)
BBP  WLW        +0 W2; +1 W1

Start off at first by recording W and L outcomes VIRTUALLY. In other words if a dominant of the last 3 vertical results in that column wins mark a W; however if the dominant of the last 3 vertical results in that column loses then record it as an L.
When you get a virtual WL - it is time to bet on the dominant of the last three outcomes of the very next column!

Bet ONCE only after EACH virtual WL signal - this can also mean a bet on the first column of the next line as in the example you quoted where I have marked it in bold ; the actual placed bet results are marked in red

L1
L1
W2   restart cycle
W1

= +1 on the above results.

Remember the bet, when indicated after a "WL", is on the dominant result of the LAST 3 VERTICAL RESULTS only of the next COLUMN waiting to be recorded/updated.

eg:
B
B
B
bet for B

P
B
P
bet for P

B
P
P
B
bet for P

P
P
B
B
P
bet for B

Use last 3 results in appropriate column to determine the bet. Bet ONCE ONLY after a trigger.

Hope this explains :)

A.
PS. Winning for me today. 4 sessions = +19.70u profit.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: WorldBaccaratKing on July 21, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
Quote from: Atlantis on July 21, 2015, 12:04:31 PM
Hi WorldBaccaratKing,

PBP
PBB
PPB   Start Cycle = 1-1-2
PPP   WLL        -1  L1        Reminder: bet only once after a WL formation
BPP   LWL                        WL trigger
BPB   LWL       -2   L1       New WL trigger... (next bet =2u)
BBP  WLW        +0 W2; +1 W1

Start off at first by recording W and L outcomes VIRTUALLY. In other words if a dominant of the last 3 vertical results in that column wins mark a W; however if the dominant of the last 3 vertical results in that column loses then record it as an L.
When you get a virtual WL - it is time to bet on the dominant of the last three outcomes of the very next column!

Bet ONCE only after EACH virtual WL signal - this can also mean a bet on the first column of the next line as in the example you quoted where I have marked it in bold ; the actual placed bet results are marked in red

L1
L1
W2   restart cycle
W1

= +1 on the above results.

Remember the bet, when indicated after a "WL", is on the dominant result of the LAST 3 VERTICAL RESULTS only of the next COLUMN waiting to be recorded/updated.

eg:
B
B
B
bet for B

P
B
P
bet for P

B
P
P
B
bet for P

P
P
B
B
P
bet for B

Use last 3 results in appropriate column to determine the bet. Bet ONCE ONLY after a trigger.

Hope this explains :)

A.
PS. Winning for me today. 4 sessions = +19.70u profit.

ty
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: tdx on July 21, 2015, 09:00:09 PM
Atlantis....thanx for the method. How would you play this recent shoe I played at a live brick and mortar casino ?


P
B
B
B
P
B
P
B
B
P
P
B
B
P
P
B
B
B
P
P
P
P
B
B
B
B
P
P
P
P
P
B
P
B
B
P
B
B
P
B
P
P
B
P
P
B
P
P
P
B
B
B
B
B
P
B
P
P
P
P
B

Thanx for the help.



Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: tdx on July 22, 2015, 12:18:46 AM
Might be an error on your first post in this thread at top of this page.

On the eighth line down you have PPB LWL and on the ninth line down you have BBP WLL.

So I think the mistake is on the 9th Line since you would have won the first bet and lost the 3rd bet on the 9th line for a zero profit or loss on that line but you show a 1 unit loss.

I think you forgot the first winning bet on the 9th line.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: jsintl on July 22, 2015, 02:09:19 AM
Quote from: Atlantis on July 21, 2015, 08:15:26 AM
Hi tdx,

I play for abt 3 to 5u profit and stop.
Also if I go to -7 or -8 I may stop too - depending on how I feel things are going.
I track the last 9 results into the grid before starting recording the W/L's for the trigger. I stop and retrack the new 9 results on a new shoe or reshuffle before any continuation.
I'm in UK and play live dealer online (small stakes)

A.

How long you have been playing this method and are you up overall?
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 22, 2015, 06:33:39 AM
Quote from: tdx on July 22, 2015, 12:18:46 AM
Might be an error on your first post in this thread at top of this page.

On the eighth line down you have PPB LWL and on the ninth line down you have BBP WLL.

So I think the mistake is on the 9th Line since you would have won the first bet and lost the 3rd bet on the 9th line for a zero profit or loss on that line but you show a 1 unit loss.

I think you forgot the first winning bet on the 9th line.

Hi tdx - nicely spotted; you're right. I seem to make a mistake.   :-[   :-[

Here I show how I would have played your results:

Start cycle = 1-1-2. *=current highest profit

PBB
BPB
PBB              9 result start grid             +0*
PPB w-l-w       w1                                +1*
BPP l-w-l         w1                                +2*
BBB l-l-w         L1                                +1
PPP l-w-l         w1                                +2*
PBB l-l-l           L1                                +1
BBP l-w-l
PPP w-l-w        w1;w1                          +3*
PBP w-w-w
BBP l-w-w        w1                               +4* - - stop here??
BBP l-w-w        w1                               +5*
BPP w-l-w        w1                                +6*
BPP w-l-w        w1                               +7*
BPP w-w-w
PBB l-l-l            L1                               +6
BBB w-l-l          L1                               +5
PBP  l-w-l
PPP  w-l-l         w2;L1                           +6
B      l-----         STOP

Regards,
A.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 22, 2015, 06:51:58 AM
Quote from: jsintl on July 22, 2015, 02:09:19 AM
How long you have been playing this method and are you up overall?

Hi jsntl,

To be clear, this is something I rediscovered in the last few days - an old system of mine I'd forgotten about, filed away in an old roulette folder...
I figured it could be better suited to game of baccarat so decided to share on this forum.
As such I'm afraid I don't have any large history of results/stats etc. I can give to you at this point.
I'm not making any grandiose claims for it either nor do I say it will always work for everyone all of the time. Time and future tests will show. It *seems* to do a fairly decent job against random compared to some others I tried. You're not betting all the time. Is a mild progression and I play for low stakes online.

A.


Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: tdx on July 22, 2015, 12:18:25 PM
I did a test on my garbage shoe ( not a real shoe ,,,doesn't have any standard patterns, chops, PBPBPB long runs PPPPPPP    1,2's   PBBPBB    3's   PPPBBBPPPBBB    doubles PPBBPPBB 1,3's PBBBPBBBPBBB              4;s PPPPBBBBPPPPBBBB  etc ) and it was up 4 units before ending at even zero units

I wouldn't use the progression you have because if you lose 9 in a row you are down 15 units. Which is OK if you are playing small stakes online. But if you are playing $ 100 a hand in a real casino, you are down          $ 1500

I would use

111111111
222222222

If you use 9 unit,s then bet 2 units until you recoup the 9 units and don't bet more than 2 units

I would quit the shoe at a 4 unit win or 6 unit loss.

Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: georgebac on July 22, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: Atlantis on July 22, 2015, 06:33:39 AM
Hi tdx - nicely spotted; you're right. I seem to make a mistake.   :-[   :-[

Here I show how I would have played your results:

Start cycle = 1-1-2. *=current highest profit

PBB
BPB
PBB              9 result start grid             +0*
PPB w-l-w       w1                                +1*
BPP l-w-l         w1                                +2*
BBB l-l-w         L1                                +1
PPP l-w-l         w1                                +2*
PBB l-l-l           L1                                +1
BBP l-w-l
PPP w-l-w        w1;w1                          +3*
PBP w-w-w
BBP l-w-w        w1                               +4* - - stop here??
BBP l-w-w        w1                               +5*
BPP w-l-w        w1                                +6*
BPP w-l-w        w1                               +7*
BPP w-w-w
PBB l-l-l            L1                               +6
BBB w-l-l          L1                               +5
PBP  l-w-l
PPP  w-l-l         w2;L1                           +6
B      l-----         STOP

Regards,
A.
where do u get the wins and loses from. do u write player and banker before the shoe starts. im not understanding how u getting the wins and loses. thank you
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Atlantis on July 22, 2015, 02:40:11 PM
Quote from: georgebac on July 22, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
where do u get the wins and loses from. do u write player and banker before the shoe starts. im not understanding how u getting the wins and loses. thank you

Hi georgebac,

I will try and explain again - but it's quite simple really.

Record (P)layer and (B)anker results in horizontal lines of 3 results in a matrix grid...

PPP
BBP
PBP

So the first three results as they happened from the start of the shoe was P P P, then the next three outcomes were B B P which are written below the first set of results. Finally to complete the start tracking grid of 9 results it happened to be: P B P.

From now on it is simply a matter to continue to record the outcomes as they occur underneath those first 3 lines (or "trios")

Also, after the initial nine tracking results, you also start to compile the W/L registry for each of the results that happen thereafter.

To decide whether to put W or L
==========================
If the dominant result of the LAST 3 VERTICAL results in a column wins mark a W; however if the dominant of the LAST 3 VERTICAL results in that column loses then record it as an L.
When you have recorded W-L - it is time to bet on the dominant of the last three outcomes of the very next column!

For example:

PPP
BBP
PBP   start grid of 9 consecutive results
PP    W-L-

In column 1 "P" is winning 2 out of 3 and a P result occurred underneath so that is marked as W.

In column 2 Banker is the dominant with 2 out of 3 - and the next latest result was a (P)layer result so that one is recorded as an L because the dominant did not win.

You only bet ONCE after EACH W-L trigger.

So in the above case you would make a bet on the dominant of column 3 which is P because that side leads with 3/3 hits.

If Player wins next hand you have:
PPP
BBP
PBP   start grid of 9 consecutive results
PPP    W-L-W            WON   +1

Alternatively, if Banker were to win the hand you have:
PPP
BBP
PBP   start grid of 9 consecutive results
PPB    W-L-L             LOST   -1

Win or Lose you then wait for the next bet signal - which is when you next see any W followed by a L.
(T)ies are ignored and the stake is rebet on the next round.

A.
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: WorldBaccaratKing on July 22, 2015, 03:27:30 PM
Quote from: tdx on July 22, 2015, 12:18:25 PM
I did a test on my garbage shoe ( not a real shoe ,,,doesn't have any standard patterns, chops, PBPBPB long runs PPPPPPP    1,2's   PBBPBB    3's   PPPBBBPPPBBB    doubles PPBBPPBB 1,3's PBBBPBBBPBBB              4;s PPPPBBBBPPPPBBBB  etc ) and it was up 4 units before ending at even zero units

I wouldn't use the progression you have because if you lose 9 in a row you are down 15 units. Which is OK if you are playing small stakes online. But if you are playing $ 100 a hand in a real casino, you are down          $ 1500

I would use

111111111
222222222

If you use 9 unit,s then bet 2 units until you recoup the 9 units and don't bet more than 2 units

I would quit the shoe at a 4 unit win or 6 unit loss.

TDX,

A garbage shoe and you still won! what's wrong with that?
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Tomla on July 22, 2015, 04:54:20 PM
I finally understand the bet! whew.Kind of clever--I tested  two random  shoes and ended up plus 6 in both. a lot of double wins for you parlay betters...
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: WorldBaccaratKing on July 22, 2015, 05:00:36 PM
Quote from: Tomla on July 22, 2015, 04:54:20 PM
I finally understand the bet! whew.Kind of clever--I tested  two random  shoes and ended up plus 6 in both. a lot of double wins for you parlay betters...

let us know if you do some more!
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: Tomla on July 22, 2015, 10:30:12 PM
ok I did 10 old shoes to plus 6 or stop at -8.... 7 shoes won plus 6, 1 shoe went plus 4 and 2 shoes lost -8
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: AsymBacGuy on July 22, 2015, 10:53:47 PM
It would be easier to look for a five consecutive series of singles-doubles on P side capable to erase any previous losses by a given progression, expecially when the "enemy" hadn't show up in the initial sequences of the shoe.
And expecially when some observed shoes hadn't provide a 4+ fictional consecutive winnings on a given sample of shoes.

The same could be applied on B side, now hoping for a B streaks' sequence in a given amount of shoes.

;-)

as.








 
Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: tdx on July 23, 2015, 12:25:01 AM
I advise everyone to make their own garbage shoe and test any method on that shoe first before doing any other testing.

Also if you are manually checking a method and flat betting , a quick way to figure banker comm is to add up all winning bets in a shoe and divide by 2. Then miltiply result by .05 ( assuming banker will win half of all winning bets)

( if you win 20 hands in a shoe assume banker will win half which is 10, so multiple 10 by .05 =1/2 unit banker comm on the shoe.}

Its just an approximation but it should come close over many shoes. 

If you are using a progression then you obviously can't use this.....and if you are using a computer, then of course the softeware  can calculate the banker comm to the penny.

Just did 3 more rewal casino shoes on the bac matrix and ...not so good.

Lost 5 units on one shoe, lost 2 on another shoe and break even on the third shoe.

Never got to the magic number of 4 unit win on any shoe. ( premature ejaculation on all 3 shoes )



Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: AsymBacGuy on July 23, 2015, 01:22:11 AM
Quote from: tdx on July 23, 2015, 12:25:01 AM
I advise everyone to make their own garbage shoe and test any method on that shoe first before doing any other testing.

Also if you are manually checking a method and flat betting , a quick way to figure banker comm is to add up all winning bets in a shoe and divide by 2. Then miltiply result by .05 ( assuming banker will win half of all winning bets)

( if you win 20 hands in a shoe assume banker will win half which is 10, so multiple 10 by .05 =1/2 unit banker comm on the shoe.}

Its just an approximation but it should come close over many shoes. 

If you are using a progression then you obviously can't use this.....and if you are using a computer, then of course the softeware  can calculate the banker comm to the penny.

Just did 3 more rewal casino shoes on the bac matrix and ...not so good.

Lost 5 units on one shoe, lost 2 on another shoe and break even on the third shoe.

Never got to the magic number of 4 unit win on any shoe. ( premature ejaculation on all 3 shoes )

I quote.

It's literally impossible to get an average one unit profit per shoe, let alone higher amounts...

Moreover, we have to register our B winning bets as they should get a higher 9.4 % mathematical expectation after tax.

On the P side the task is quite simple. We must overcome a -1.24% edge over the long run.

Any method capable to lower such disadvantages itlr is a real good one, but there aren't too many.

In the short-intermediate run many methods can overcome such ratios (all due to the standard deviation topic) giving us the illusion to have found the holy grail.

If a holy grail system exists, it will be very very diluted, putting us at a very high risk to be subdued by the variance.

as. 








   

Title: Re: Baccarat Matrix
Post by: HunchBacShrimp on July 24, 2015, 03:24:28 AM
This is not a bad method. It reduces your action, gives you plenty of time in between bets to work out the columns of 3, a virtual w/l register and a real w/l register.

But it has no special significance. No advantage. It's no different than betting the most dominant side horizontally instead of vertically. Waiting for a virtual W-L pattern before betting for a W is an attempt to catch a win for every isolated loss. For every single Loss event. The exact same thing as betting for Banker to single.

HBS