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Topic: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.  (Read 10751 times)

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Offline Bacchus

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This is my 1st post, but I have been around reading most of the topics and comments and
decided to share a piece and that I hope someone will find something valuable in this.

I can genuinely say that I have been there done that from 15 years of playing in casinos for I have seen what I needed to see for me to learn and not do the same mistakes all over again.
I have used countless of systems from money management, bet selections, pre-game mental and physical conditioning and all the possible ways you can think of just to get a slight advantage. Ive been into feeling like a King on a 15-day winning streak only to be smothered by the loss on the 16th day, bringing me back to the reality as the common man, giving back all my winnings, my bankroll and self-confidence to go with it.

To make this short on a very long subject, I am outlining below my experience on the PRACTICAL aspects of gambling, and how we can put this to our advantage. This is not a MM or bet selection story, but the reality one.

I play for a living! or as a stock market investor lingo Im a LONG, not a SHORT (daily trader).

Yes you read that correctly. How? My answer to that friends is rather simple, Discipline.
Discipline is far the easiest to say but the hardest thing to do, most especially if you are
on a losing session, down a few units, half the session money or worse the entire bankroll.
Bankroll, money management, bet selection is never successful most of the time for the 99% of players because of the lack of discipline. Sure, I can easily control and stop my session whenever I have reached my profit goal, but how do I control myself while on the losing side or from going overboard and the risk of ruin? Discipline is the Holy Grail.

My discipline is my system sort to say as simple as choosing between betting on banker or player side, I dont need any mathematical equation. It is what it is, no system can beat the casino, but one thing I am sure of, a disciplined player can pinch a little share of that very huge pie (casino profits) gradually and steadily all year long or as long as your life or casinos exist.   

Before I elaborate on my discipline or how I morph to an ultra-disciplined being while on play, I repeat while on play as this is where we are grinded to, not before nor after, I am outlining below reminders for myself every time I visit the casino, or as I say the fantasy world. Where dreams come true, but nightmares are constant.
 

   Mental, Emotional and Physical preparation. This is the 1st question I ask myself before I start any session, I have to be honest and know myself if Im worried, tired or stressed for the day.

Mental/emotional condition means more, this means you have to leave your problems or worries behind, if you cant help it well at least pretend for that moment that you dont have them. But if you cant still help it and you carry that all the time, never start that session.
The last thing you need is that distraction, as it is our biggest disadvantage. You already lost before you even start.

Physical condition, well that simply speaks for itself. Never play tired, sleepy or under the influence of liquor. Simple things like these when not taken to account, spells doom.
When you are not physically primed, just a game of baccarat especially that one shoe not going your way, easily drains you as fast as the kryptonite weakens superman. When that happens, discipline is more difficult to achieve. When you are tired and battered in a particular table/shoe, you go to an auto-pilot of self-destruction, more experienced players knows exactly what I am trying to say.

I would like to add more on how my preparations are and what I do before I start every session, how I look for my tables and so on and so on, However I need not to, I realized it is a matter of personal preference, each individual has his own approach to the baccarat game, as in the good old saying in boxing, styles makes fights.
Just to cut this short for now, and would probably add more in the days to come, here is how my session would start and look like. This is just me, and this is how I found success after the gazillions of failures so to speak. This is a matter of finding what works for you, what combo of MM and bet selection, bet size etc. that you are comfortable with and wherein you can be disciplined with.

Just for a quick history of mine, I was the aggressive type, I parlay up to the 3rd winning bet and regress back to base bet and re-start with a 1 level up base bet and so on, I flat bet every time a loss occurs then a parlays after a win. I was like this type of player for so long, I had good runs on this but failed as much. Then I went to a martingale 6 levels for only a short period, I have good runs of long winning days but only to be sacked by a couple of back to back losing days, this a double-edged sword in my view.

What I do now with much of success, I bring 12 units with me as a session capital, no ATM card, no more extra capital as feel brave stand-by mode fund  if you know what I mean, just the 12 units and my gas money or whatever. My win goal is 3 units using flat bet BUT when I see my bet selection is working perfectly abnormal for me which do occurs from time to time, I parlay 2 or 3 units max with a bonus win goal as I like to call it, of up to 6 units to a max of 12-unit win for the day, I dont push my luck too far beyond the 12-unit win, heck I am more than happy to reach my win goal of 3 units by betting flat. I only do 1 session a day and balance my activities with everything else that is normal in life.

All the above that I do or my playing preference probably does not go along with yours, what matters to me is that I find contentment on a 3 unit win and a possible loss of 12 units in a day. Suppose that per unit is $100, Im fine taking a $300 payday as when compared to the real world job this is okay. I increase my unit value relative to my session capital and most importantly my comfort level. A comfort level is the unit value that you are prepared to lose on a particular day.   

This is my system and that is my discipline.


Offline VLS

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Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »
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  • Welcome to the forum Bacchus, thanks for an informative and down-to-earth first post.

    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline Gizmotron

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #2 on: July 22, 2016, 02:50:31 PM »
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  • I've seen this 12 units to win 3 mentioned elsewhere, surely you can't be this nave VLS, watch this space.

    This is your opinion of bet selections based on trends, patterns, and apparently magical thinking: "Yep utter frustration at times and is why I say trending is a load of crappola, voodoo tragic." ; from another thread.

    Anyone that recognizes the need for discipline must base that on some kind of conditional observance or awareness. I dare say that Bacchus must recognize some form of the three states or conditions that currently exist. The bets work great, and at some moments for a while perfectly, they work flat, neither good or bad but with flat results, or they work very badly, like a losing streak. The only trend that matters is the effectiveness trend. Once you are well armed with the current state of conditional awareness you are only left with knowing what to do with that information in order to win in a long term, over all strategy. I agree completely with Bacchus. Self discipline is the most powerful and useful of all the tools available to the aware player. Knowing that you can lose once for every ten wins means that you can win in the long term and that is power. Your mind can have power over the casinos that have to just sit there and take it from you. Discipline is what you do with the information you experience.

    This was one of the finest things I ever read on any gambling forum. Thanks Bacchus.
    "...IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO BREAK THE LAW OF AVERAGES." 

    Offline Bacchus

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 02:52:10 PM »
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  • Thank you for the warm welcome VLS.


    Mark, I am glad to know that I'm not the only person
    who uses such a conservative win goal. Wherein it really gets tougher
    maintaining the mindset, control, patience and consistency for longer periods of days
    And even months.
    I have read here just recently someone who only brings 8 units
    as a session capital, wherein he takes his unit wins, and ends his session
    after those 8units comes to a loss, something close to that, perhaps that is the same
    thread we read?

    Offline Gizmotron

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #4 on: July 22, 2016, 06:21:38 PM »
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  • Discipline is a great virtue, fantastic it is brought up and reinforced, hopefully it won't lead into a sales pitch.  How's your health nowadays?

    Why would a sales pitch come up? You can use any consistent bet selection process you want to have it show you the three states of possible effectiveness conditions. You don't need anything more than common sense to react to what the conditions are. It just takes discipline to stay on course. It looks to me like Bacchus already told the big secret. He/She has clearly used a working example of a proceed with caution method, limit the loss, limit the reasonable size of success results, and get out.

    You must know that, typically, games of chance run in cycles. If the cycles tend to be in swings that deviate from a flat line to 5 units either side of the flat line, than getting out on the first deviation of +3 is good planning and nothing more. Limiting a loss to just 12 units, by defending against losing any more than that, is nothing more than picking a reasonable cut point based on the experience of achieving the +3 goal and the times that that goal is reached and carried out of the casino in the first place. It's an acknowledgement that the win goal represents 25% of the total allowable loss. So Bacchus is saying that he/she makes a living by reaching the win goal at least 5 times for each losing visit to a casino. (ref: One session per day.)

    What's to sell? It's all here, and real experienced players can easily see that. I have no problem if Bacchus wants to charge to teach newbie, inexperienced players, --  rudimentary, bonehead, pre-101 playing methods. But from my standpoint as an experienced player, he/she has made everything very clear.
    "...IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO BREAK THE LAW OF AVERAGES." 

    Offline Bacchus

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 07:09:42 PM »
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  • Mark, I am sharing my experience in this forum, I don't need to sell anything
    or anything for gain for that matter. I received a PM just now, being asked
    how and what my bet selection is, and this was my reply: (Name withheld)

    Hi *****,

    First off,  I regret to tell you that there is no system that consistently works against all the combinations that a shoe produce, simply put, there is no "one size fits all" kind of a system that can truly consistently beat or even make a dent on the casino.

    As to my bet selection or bet placement as others call it, it is more of a dynamic approach to a given scenario in the actual play the shoe is showing, be it chops, streaks, repeats, trend or anti-trend. I have somehow learned thru experience to adapt to those situations and try to time my bets. Timing is everything, if I don't understand or can't get hold of what the shoe is doing in front of me, I simply sit-out or employ the no-bet mode, this will do you more good as oppose to trying to guess your bets hand after hand.

    However the real reason If I may say, success in this endeavor, is my long term view and my level of contentment which is a 3-unit win minimum, however on good days and well-timed plays, a 6-unit win to a max of 12-unit win do come sometimes. I play 1 session a day with 12 units as session capital, win or lose.

    Right now, where my comfort level (money I can afford to lose and not being stressed about it) is $200 base bet ($600 win daily take-home min.) with a session capital of $2,400 for the day. 1 session a day. win or lose.

    On a month I play 24 days total with rest days in between, depending on my physical and mental/emotional state. I treat this like a regular job, short of making this my full-time profession, balancing with real life living Daddy/Husband duties.

    As to the results, based on June 2016, It is 19Wins 5Losses with a net gain of $7,700. Not much to some but will do for me. This June the shortest time I got to reach my goal was in minutes with just 3 hands. The longest was 4 hours, my losing days were usually the longest.

    I'm spending what I'm earning, just like a regular job's income covering my living expenses and some necessity purchases. I can if I want to level up my base bet to $500 for $1,500 take home, this would be nice, but I'm not on the comfort level yet, no matter how encouraging my past results were. I always remind myself, there is always a chance that I may run to a string of bad days, and would not like that on that level. I will come to that in time. As I look at this long term, and in long term view/play.. Timing is all but everything.

    In Summary, the advice I can give to you is, the lower your win goals are and the shorter your time in the casino will be in a given day or session, the higher the chance of you getting some success and with consistent results. Real discipline is key.

    Regards,
    Bacchus








    Offline MarkTeruya

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    Gambling Psychology
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 08:14:44 PM »
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  • Here you go Gizmotron

    Gambling Psychology -
    Learning proper playing strategies and sound money management principles is only part of a successful casino gambler's game plan. Having a proper playing attitude is just as important.

    The typical attitude of losing gamblers is something like this: They always go to the casinos to have fun and of course, they always expect to lose. They experience an emotional high when playing and are invariably swept up in the exciting casino atmosphere. They always feel obligated to take the free drinks offered by the casino as a way of getting even for their losses. And, of course, when they lose, they always blame it on rotten luck, or poor cards, but the consolation for their losing is "well, I had a good time anyway," attitude.

    Keep this thought in mind next time you go to a casino to have some fun. First, when you enter a casino, you are entering a place of business. And like all successful businesses, the casinos are operated by shrewd businessmen whose job is firstly, to keep you playing and happy and secondly, to separate you from your money as quickly and painlessly as possible. To meet these objectives, they create an atmosphere in the casino that can be described as a "Disneyland for adults." No clocks to let you know it's time to leave this utopia, no windows to let you see out to the real world, free drinks at the tables, free lounge shows and plenty of pretty girls to keep you happy and playing.

    And what happens to the average gambler when he/she enters this casino designed excitement? For him/her, the rewards of winning all of the casino's money far outweigh the risks of losing his meager hundred dollar bankroll. And this exciting atmosphere also makes it so easy for the average player to feel lucky and go for broke at the chance of winning that jackpot.

    First and foremost, in order to be a winner, you must learn to control your emotions in the casino. The real struggle when you are playing is, in most cases, not between you and the casino, but between you and yourself. You will find plenty of temptations to keep you playing and losing, therefore, you must learn to develop a sense of timing or awareness of when to play and, more importantly, when to quit.

    In short, you must develop the proper playing attitudes to overcome the psychological barriers created by the casinos to keep you losing and to make it difficult for you to leave the tables with a profit. For example, go to the casinos expecting to win (rather than lose). Granted, there are no guarantees that you will win, but likewise there is no guarantee that you have to lose. Always prepare yourself for those inevitable losing sessions. No matter how skilfully you play, sometimes everything will go wrong. Will you quit and call it a day or will you be like most gamblers and dig in for more cash, hoping the tide will turn? And how many gamblers have the attitude that a small profit is better than no profit or a loss? Not many.

    Above all, learn to develop a sense of timing for when to play and when to quit. Playing blackjack, for example, if you are tired or have been drinking will cost you dearly.

    These attitudes are not always natural. Most of them take an amount of work before you can feel comfortable playing with discipline. But if you develop these proper playing attitudes and learn proper playing and money management strategies, you will be able to enjoy the fun and excitement of casino gambling with a minimum risk at your bankroll. Isn't it worth the effort?

    Player or Banker?

    "Your primary battle is with yourself, as this battle permeates all aspects of your play, and proper self-management --as one might be managed by a coach on the sidelines is critical."

    "You are wrong when you say that the casino deserves no respect as an opponent. These people know more about the psyche of the gambler than is ever published in any psychology book, and they are more than willing to use this information in any way they can to trip up the winning player."

    "As a player, you have 3 fronts to watch: monitoring yourself, monitoring the game, and monitoring the casino as it reacts to your play of the game. Repeated lessons in each of these areas teach one to , value playing when you are not stressed ("by anything" including your level of play), not emotionally upset, and well rested, and to understand that NO APPROACH to play wins in every situation EVEN ONE WHICH DELIVERS A verifiable WIN BIAS-- and when you encounter those bad shoes, one must learn to "take their lumps" like a big boy or girl, and walk away a temporary "LOSER". In this regard, playing at, NOT ABOVE one's comfort level is the mark of a confident player, sticking more money out in front of you when you are losing, is the act of a scared person, NOT A WINNER."
    http://www.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=230&forum=Baccarat_Message_Board



    Offline 21 Aces

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 09:14:32 PM »
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  • There is no monitoring the casino.  Of course they will have there limits on every game.  If the dealers and floor managers I play with cheered any harder for players they would look like this:

    Life is something you dominate if you're any good. - Tom Buchanan

    Offline Gizmotron

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    Re: Gambling Psychology
    « Reply #8 on: July 22, 2016, 10:02:13 PM »
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  • Here you go Gizmotron


    It's pretty well written. I never concern myself with the ambient distractions of the casino other than getting to know the section supervisors. I know that they watch me hammer the win streaks. There is no way they can manipulate the characteristics of randomness. They don't need to. The sequences of death are always just a few spins away. Mindset and self control are my responsibility to keep in control. The casino does not exist other than a mechanism to give or take money. The random flow of information is my battlefield. The flow of effectiveness dictates my decisions. The distractions are of no concern to me.

    That's what works for me. "Aim small, miss small," that's how you teach someone to hit the target. I try to see only the randomness flow. Focus, see the opportunity, strike, these are the tools of discipline. I'm never distracted by the mistakes of other players.

    "...IT'S AGAINST THE LAW TO BREAK THE LAW OF AVERAGES." 

    Offline gr8player

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 02:15:34 PM »
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  • Bankroll, money management, bet selection is never successful most of the time for the 99% of players because of the lack of discipline. Sure, I can easily control and stop my session whenever I have reached my profit goal, but how do I control myself while on the losing side or from going overboard and the risk of ruin? Discipline is the Holy Grail.

    My discipline is my system sort to say as simple as choosing between betting on banker or player side, I dont need any mathematical equation. It is what it is, no system can beat the casino, but one thing I am sure of, a disciplined player can pinch a little share of that very huge pie (casino profits) gradually and steadily all year long or as long as your life or casinos exist.

    You should be very proud of yourself, Bacchus.  You took the journey....the very same journey that we've all taken....the winning, the losing, the betting "this" and the betting "that", the futile "money chase"....and you came away from it all relatively unscathed.  In fact, dare I say, you came away from it all BRILLIANTLY.

    Now you're simply the "toughest out" the casino will ever face.  You've "got it".  Yes, my friend, as you put it just above, "Discipline IS the Holy Grail".  Learning to control that which you can control.  We, as players, haven't got much more than that as we battle through our sessions; ahh, but the savvy and astute players know that, in the long run, that's pretty much all we'll ever need to succeed.

    If you're unaware of my philosophies regarding this game, I am compelled to inform you that I have been espousing the very necessity of Patience and Discipline and Consistency and Conservative win goals/loss limits combined with our Player's Edges (of which "no-betting" is a major part) for years and years on these very forums.  So, with me at least, you're "preaching to the choir".  And I should inform you....it's a darn good choir.  It's a group of players that know exactly what it takes to get the better of this game over the long run; and then, just as importantly, have the tools (yes, the discipline included therein) to put it into action each and every session they play.

    I thank you Bacchus for authoring a thread that caught my interest enough to respond; you see, I'm retired now and so I spend alot more time at the casino and alot less time at the keyboard.  That, combined with the fact that there's just not much worth responding to in most of these threads, has me posting less and less.  But, in this case, you inspired me Bacchus, and, again, for that I thank you and wish you continued successes.  Take care and stay well.




    Offline Bacchus

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 04:33:08 PM »
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  • If you're unaware of my philosophies regarding this game, I am compelled to inform you that I have been espousing the very necessity of Patience and Discipline and Consistency and Conservative win goals/loss limits combined with our Player's Edges (of which "no-betting" is a major part) for years and years on these very forums.  So, with me at least, you're "preaching to the choir".  And I should inform you....it's a darn good choir.  It's a group of players that know exactly what it takes to get the better of this game over the long run; and then, just as importantly, have the tools (yes, the discipline included therein) to put it into action each and every session they play.


    gr8player thank you for the kind comments.

    I wish I had not started the journey, though I am relieved I will never ever get worse going forward, owing to the acquired discipline.
    The experience gained is my guiding principle for the long and winding road ahead. Our journey never ends.

    Just by reading your comment above I do feel we are on the same axis if I may say,
    Please, I would like to know how did you come to that conclusion/philosophies that seems very close to mine. When was the point of that realization? How would a certain session of yours be on a very bad day?

    Thanks and regards,











    Offline gr8player

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 05:51:22 PM »
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  • As to my "point of realization":

    After playing this game, on a serious basis, for quite some time, I was in the position to ascertain exactly that which was assisting me in my game, as opposed to that which was undermining it.  Thereupon came my "point of realization".  That point in time where I realized that the game was more about "me" than it was about "them".  I cannot control the cards and I cannot control their outcomes, but I can control "me".  And so I quickly learned to take control of that which I am able to control.

    You see, Bacchus, there is no magical formula for bet selection, nor is there one for money management.  And the sooner one comes to that realization, the better.  Over the normal course of time, your bets will win and lose, and your money will come and go.  Up and down, down and up, 'round and 'round we go. 

    And so we come to strive for some consistency, for some normalcy.  And the savvy, astute player learns that that consistency and that normalcy appears ONLY within the most  Patient and Disciplined of us.  And so we learn that, yes, Discipline is the Holy Grail.

    The patient and the disciplined INHERENTLY (read: by their very nature) utilize the very best bet selection processes and the most efficient money-management strategies.  If for no other reason than their P and D.  And this is exactly why the P and the D is so imperative.  (Those that are following this and understand it, "get it"....those that don't, probably never will.)

    As to my reaction to "bad days":

    "Spit Happens"  I'm not immune, nor are you, nor is anyone.  There are days that what I am doing is simply not working.  All I can do is accept the loss and move on. (read: terminate the session)

    Learning to lose is just as important as learning to win.  No one likes it, nor should they; it stings.  But it's all simply a part of the game, and there's nothing we can do about it but accept it.  Why?  Because the alternative is "chasing losses"; and, trust me, "chasing losses" is the biggest contributor to the casino's coffers, bar none.  Don't become victim to it....much better to walk the smaller loss.

    That all said, I also happen to play a "variance" game; and so, after a loss (dependent upon how that loss played itself out), I just might adjust my next session's unit sizes upwards a bit, all in the name of efficient recoup and/or profit.  But true "variance" play is Baccarat at it's most advanced....now is not the time for me to delve into that any further.

    Suffice to say that bad days come and go, just as the good ones do.  And so we learn to both recognize and accept both.  Just, my friend, keep that Discipline flame afire, and you'll be just fine.  Take care and stay well.

    Offline Bacchus

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 06:28:13 PM »
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  • SPOT ON!

    This post of yours is truly classic, years of experience
    conveyed in a hundred letters, I felt every word of it.

    Anyone reading this who is still unaware, this is your wake-up call!
    Thank you for sharing gr8player.


    Offline Kerrypatricia

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 11:31:11 PM »
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  • Thank you so much for taking the time and writing it all down.
    I have been playing bac for almost one year.  It is the best gambling game I have ever tried.  And I have  played roulette  poker machines,    then I got to Bacarat.   And here I will stay.
    I have come to exactly the same conclusions. As you.   12 units per day. I play 3 shoes if the bankroll holds out .   Plus 3. A.  Shoe target.  Stop loss stop win.  The most I will take is a loss of 5 in a row.    Better off with a new shoe usually.   I do bet trends and streaks.   So far so good.
    I just want to play long term so am happy to make a smaller target goal.   Then over time be in a position to make the 12 units bigger units.   Thus making more profits for the days I win.
    I also think. That to risk just 10 per cent  of your total bankroll is  best for me no stress.
    I played more aggressively in the beginning but found. I could not force wins.  I had to accept that this game was good. But required  a disciplined approach.  Most times you win   or get ahead.
    But  a win is not a win till you are out of the casino with the profits.   I am retired and this is a hobby.   I really enjoy it.   I have been reading all the posts on various forums and yours was the best I have read.    So thanks again.   I am in Australia.   So lots of naturals to ya !!!!

    Offline GoldenDragon

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    Re: Baccarat: The real struggle is not in the house, but yourself.
    « Reply #14 on: September 01, 2016, 05:25:42 PM »
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  • Thank you for a very informative and truth to earth experiences.  I can not comment any more of your post.  It's true that there is no system to beat the casino, especially baccarat.  The only thing is DISCIPLINE.  It happens to me thousand times but I still haven't learned to stop when losing.  I have been on  winning for a week, but last night, yes last night, I gave it all back even though I did realize I'm on the losing day.  I can not just call it a day but go back to get more money.  I feel (just like the other thousand times) ashamed and unintelligent.  Right now, I'm down financially and mentally.  I have only 800 left.  Stupid me.   Discipline is the only thing to survive.