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[alrelax]

I am sorry, something is misplaced somehow, I simply cannot imagine almost the same patterns with different cuts.  I have taken 8 decks of cards, washed and shuffled, and written down the results.  I have never seen in my tests or decades of playing at casinos, same-repeating patterns/trends/results shoe after shoe---even with auto shufflers.  I have seen some, and I mean a few things trending from shoe to shoe, like one side or the other after ties or naturals or starting a shoe with strong bankers and then strong players or visa versa.  I have never seen the high majority of the winning decisions clump themselves so close and repeat shoe after shoe.  That would be a players dream if it did happen that way.

Again, something is not correct.

I will get 8 decks of cards and I will manually do this and record the results. 

[Azim]

if you want to recheck.

I have used the same shuffle as the one I produced the detailed results.

Follow 1 and see if you find any mistakes.

[alrelax]

Sorry and all due respects, there is no way possible to get the same clusters/results as you did, although slightly displaced.  True, you might have on your 'dealing' but there has never been anything like this in live play.

I was taking this to the extreme to show, even with the same 'set-up'---'order' of the cards (which would never happen in a casino) it would be different.  You also probably didn't know, live casinos do a 'varying' cut off the rear of every deck when they are setting up the cards for the 14 cards in the rear of the cut card.  They actually do a first rear cut of approximately 1/2 deck or 30 cards (not counted out) and then count back 14 and place the cut card.  The remainder at times can go back in the back or in the front, etc.

But back to our test, even with the same order, cutting the cards just one time by a player with a random cut,  has to change the order of everything past the cut and then it will effect the group prior to the card because of the unknown amount of 5 or 6 card hands that happened prior to that section.

[Azim]

For me the only gain was I got the baccarat logic in place for testing.

If you think there is an error i can produce the detailed report and you can confirm it.

Yes I did use end cut at 10.

If you want re-cuts done without burns, just explain by example and i can re-do it for you.



Looks like nothing wrong.  I was using the right cards after the burn.

Here are the details to verify.

[alrelax]

There has to be an error, sorry and nothing against you or your computer, but there has to be.

[Azim]

if you really want, I can create a loop and cut at all 415 positions?
Looks like either we have the 3 card rule wrong or we just picking the cuts at the right place for the results to be the same.

[alrelax]

I am not a computer guy here for software and testing.  I am going to do the manual method, same as a casino dealing.  I have done random and compared multiple shoes in the past but never recorded it.  I have to do with my own eyes and knowing I did the same as a casino dealing anyways.  Thanks for your trouble, can't check a computer without doing it myself anyway.  The manual method will be more accurate for my purposes.

[Azim]

May be, I this is what you were expecting?

This is a new shuffle.

[alrelax]

Sorry, it is impossible in my eyes/mind to produce the results the way you did.  Utterly impossible.

[Azim]

Give me a sample as to the way you want it?

If you going to do this manually, why not check this and see if it's wrong?

Well, if not, I tried. Maybe I did miss something.

[21 Aces]

The cut will either displace if it strikes precisely or it more likely will create a new shoe.   If it creates a new shoe (new outcomes) those possibilities are large in number, right?

Let's say the cut is at hand 25 of shoe 1.  Now you cut it at a different location.  It may cut exactly at the end of a hand for that exact shoe (let's say this cut is after hand 33). Now you have the exact same hands of the shoe, but just displaced by 8 hands.  If the cut does not strike and displace exactly this way (at the end of a hand of the first shoe), then you have an entirely new shoe.

The most likely outcome of additional cuts is NOT to strike precisely for a displacement of the original shoe, but to create a new shoe that results in entirely different outcomes.  The only ways a house can rig the shuffle is to rig the shuffling machine some way, add or remove cards they believe will result in less high payout bets or more difficult outcomes, or create a shoe by hand with certain progressions they select.

[Azim]

You are right. Well from what I can see, if the 3 card rule I have programmed is correct. I couldn't find anything wrong.

However, starting with a different shuffle, of course produces a different result set.

If someone has actually checked the details file. I have even logged the new location of cards with the shoe before and after cut and burn cards. The only possible error i can see is the 3 card rule. Which you both have confirmed is correct.

If all the above is correct, may be doing a loop to cut the cards at every single point, might make a difference somewhere.

[alrelax]

Seriously, think about what you are saying?!!!

Same card order every shoe.  Different cut position.  All the results have to be different at complete random order of the outcome.  Cannot be set-up!

The results cannot be displaced, the cards before that were cut and put at the back might be the same--those will be the only section of cards the same.  BUT--then when the shoes starts the play, there is no way anything will still be in pre-set order including that one section that was cut and moved to the rear, because you do not know how many 5th and 6th cards had to be drawn, PERIOD.

I did not even go into about the burn cards or the variable 1/2 deck off the rear and changed around at times. 

Think about it.  You are saying everything will stay the same, that is impossible.

[Azim]

Look at the details for each and every cut.  If there is an error we can fix it.

However remember we have 416 cards, from 8 decks. With 128 cards having the value of 0. 
Which turns out to be 30% of the deck.

[alrelax]

You will also have a burn card of whatever value the card represents in the game except for the face or ten card which would mean 10--burned.  The burn card cannot be the same every time as well.  We are cutting at random spots of the deck each time.

14 Cards not used in the rear.