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[Azim]

I am waiting for Alrelax to post, he has done it manually and I will re-do it the same way .

[alrelax]

Here is my first three shoes I did.  Manually.  8 decks of cards, proper burn and 14 in the rear behind the cut card.

Each shoe was arranged the exact same way.  The 3 burn cards were different values. And of course all three cuts were different.   

[Azim]

I guess I misunderstood what you were going to present.

I was expecting the full process as what I have in my log.

However I can change the results.file to reflect what you have. Will that work for you?

I can still produce the step by step process, for someone to check it out, if they so wish to.

Let me know, ok, let me know at what part of the deck do you want the cut?

Card 10, 20 , 30  whatever you decide. I will use 14 end instead of 10.

[alrelax]

I don't have the time to manually worte down the card order or the hands played out as you presented.  I did this manually, with 8 decks of cards, no jokers, dealt the cards same as a casino, etc.  Cut the shoes at a different spot each time, somewhere around 30% to 70% into the shoe.  Drew a burn card and burned the value plus the burn card.  14 cards set behind the cut card in the rear of the shoe.  Same as a casino. 

The only thing I am looking for is if there would be any similarity when the cards (say they came out of the auto shuffler) in some magically set up order as to have a house advantage to the casino, if that order would be held. 

Once again, with a random cut and a burn card, there is no way for the casino to set up the cards.  Which would be a huge regulatory problem and possibly even a criminal charge.  Just so damn tired of hiring members open their mouths that casinos set up the shoes with a certain order of cards from the uto shuffler.  LOL.

[Azim]

I get it..  I will use the 2 shuffles I have so far.. 

I will do 7 sets for each shuffle and the cuts will be at 52, 104, 156, 208, 260, 312, 364 I will take the top card and burn the cards based on that value.

Will produce the result your way.

[Azim]

This is shuffle 1 and play by play log.

Numbers at the end is where the shuffle was.

[Azim]

Here are the results only.

Shuffle 1 and cuts are at the end.

[alrelax]

Literally and physically impossible for you to get those results with a random cut and a different burn card.  You have the same exact result just displaced elsewhere, it is ludicrous.

[Azim]

You claim that, All I ask is even if you go play by play,  its the same..

So unless someone says play by play is wrong. The results are what you see.

[alrelax]

How can you logically explain the shoes will eventually be the same when the beginning cards are different.  One 6 card draw instead of a 4 card draw will change everything behind it. 

Try it with one deck of cards, forget the 14 burn cards in the rear, cut it the value of the burn card and play it out, do it several times and you will see.  Do it with an actual deck of cards, not a computer.

[21 Aces]

Between the shuffle, cut, and burn cards most shoes should be completely different.  The cut has to strike in the exact right spot to displace and create the same shoe just displaced.  That is why when we see wild progressions they are so special.

[soxfan]

Dang, are you cat still kickin this around, hey hey?

[alrelax]

So, do you guys still believe that even after a random cut and a the burn card value is taken away from the front of the deck, you can still have the exact same pattern/results after the cut??  Just displaced further back in the shoe. 

I am almost embarrassed how supposedly knoweldabgle gamblers of some type here could even think that!  Just take say 1 deck and cut in a different spot and alter the beginning each time by taking our a few cards and play it out, write down the results and see yourself.

Point being, people run their mouths about a casino setting up a pre-shuffled shoe and it will be in their favor.  No way possible.  Read the industry technical magazine articles about the card companies procedure with RNG style type of technology in the robot shufflers that guarantee the decks are random and shuffled under security as well as gaming regulators, etc. 

[21 Aces]

I think you can have the exact same shoe displaced if the 2nd cut you place on the shoe is at the exact right spot and the burn cards add up to the exact number of hands to displace as well which (given 11 burn cards) could be a play of 6 cards and a play of 5 cards.

[alrelax]

That is right--sure.  With the same amount of burn cards and the exact (EXACT) same cut place, the dhow would be the same.  That was not the case with the 8-10 test shoes he showed.