Casino uses card reader to cheat people out of money!!!!!!!
I heard from a good source that there is a conveyor belt type of mechanism inside the shoe to alter the cards!
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 06:01:22 AM
Casino uses card reader to cheat people out of money!!!!!!!
Give it up Ellis. Hows that 2HI coming along? LOL, you had it up for 2 weeks then everyone said its crapppppp and you took it down! LOL, go back to the nursing home and play gin rummy! gambling isn't for you KID
Quote from: alrelax on July 15, 2015, 01:14:48 PM
I heard from a good source that there is a conveyor belt type of mechanism inside the shoe to alter the cards!
don't be crazed
[attachimg=1]
If skullduggery going on, then it will happen in shuffle procedure not inside shoe.
Quote from: mahatma on July 15, 2015, 02:22:45 PM
don't be crazed
[attachimg=1]
If skullduggery going on, then it will happen in shuffle procedure not inside shoe.
No Sir!!!! I have it from a good source that the new shoes are manufactured by JimfooleryIamreal, Inc. and those mechanisms that move the cards around inside the shoe, at the casino's will are invisible. Really!
Quote from: alrelax on July 15, 2015, 02:27:19 PM
No Sir!!!! I have it from a good source that the new shoes are manufactured by JimfooleryIamreal, Inc. and those mechanisms that move the cards around inside the shoe, at the casino's will are invisible. Really!
Jim has probably forgot more about baccarat in a weekend than you have LEARNED in a lifetime. *FACT*
Casino Cheating ! That's the best reason I've heard for not playing baccarat.
There isn't a method developed to beat the cheating casinos .
Stop playing save your money. You will never beat the casinos.
You people are f....ck... Idiots, it's the card shuffler, not the shoe.
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 06:28:34 PM
You people are f....ck... Idiots, it's the card shuffler, not the shoe.
Ellis, things are getting foggyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
Once the cards are shuffled the game is set. You can check, change, or re-arrange your bet. However keep in mind when the shoe has no repeaters or it doesn't quite make sense the casino shuffled it to be that way. Quick story, Physician comes in and he hates to bet on the player run, after about 2 shoes the player run takes off, I have seen the casino do this to the same Doctor more than once. The man loses thousands of dollars and Mike Tyson couldn't knock the smirk off the casino mangers face. This is one of many stories I could tell. P.S. It is a fact that the casino is cheating hard working people out of thousands of dollars everyday. When the gamblers finally catch on who knows what might happen! Time will tell!!!!
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 06:01:22 AM
Casino uses card reader to cheat people out of money!!!!!!!
CORRECTION:
Casino uses house edge to cheat people out of money!!!!!!!
This is so unintelligent. The casino depends on a random game to win. If ever they deploy a non random game, they are exposed and vulnerable. If discovered by the players, much like yourself. Then a team can walk in, manipulate their bet selections to produce a predictable shoe and legally take the casino for every penny they have. The casino would either have to pay the team, or admit they were cheating.
It is a lose/lose proposition from win/win position. Only a fool of epic proportions like yourself would ever think it would be a good idea.
The truth hurts and people use to be hanged for cheating!!
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 09:49:00 PM
The truth hurts and people use to be hanged for cheating!!
Lies hurt too!
Can we hang you for slander?
Maybe just burn a giant "L" on your forehead?
Force you to sew a flaming red "L" on all your shirts?
It would be very efficient in its abbreviated meaning.
We got Liar and Lunatic and Loser. A trifecta! I feel like I should win something for that. :applause:
Slander, now that's funny! You casino managers have all the answers but I promise you, Cheating doesn't pay forever!!!
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
Once the cards are shuffled the game is set. You can check, change, or re-arrange your bet. However keep in mind when the shoe has no repeaters or it doesn't quite make sense the casino shuffled it to be that way. Quick story, Physician comes in and he hates to bet on the player run, after about 2 shoes the player run takes off, I have seen the casino do this to the same Doctor more than once. The man loses thousands of dollars and Mike Tyson couldn't knock the smirk off the casino mangers face. This is one of many stories I could tell. P.S. It is a fact that the casino is cheating hard working people out of thousands of dollars everyday. When the gamblers finally catch on who knows what might happen! Time will tell!!!!
So you admit the shoe is set after the shuffle, and you can check, change or re-arrange your bet. So then there is something a player can do about it besides 'bend over and take it".
Are you saying a whole shoe of chops? no repeaters? and you can't stop betting for a double long enough to rape the casino on 60+ consecutive chops?
"the shoe doesn't quite make sense"? are you saying you understand random? you can predict it? that you can recognize a lack of random? Or maybe you are saying that random makes sense but non random events are confusing to you?
So two shoes with no Player run is sensible random? And a continuation of more shoes greater than two in a row without Player runs is completely normal? What you are saying is that it isn't normal for Player to run?
Casino managers smirk all the time, at every gambler that loses. You think they only smirk when a conspiracy is involved?
The physician story is only one of many stories of normal casino activity.
So now you are lumping hard working people with Asian gangs? Or implying that Asian gangs are hard working people?
There is nothing to catch on to. Except YOU have lost your azz in the casino once again. And you are here ranting about it because you can't believe how stoopid you are. It's ok. You are not alone. I can't believe how stoopid you are either.
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 15, 2015, 10:38:09 PM
Slander, now that's funny! You casino managers have all the answers but I promise you, Cheating doesn't pay forever!!!
I am trying to be somewhat humorous. [smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley] At your expense though.[smiley]aes/rose_wilted.png[/smiley]
I'm not a casino manager you dolt. I have also offered few if any answers, but have posed quite a few questions to you.
Cheating quite often pays forever.
House Edge could be considered as cheating, and it pays forever.
Gangs have been around for ever, and all they do is cheat their way around the law.
Cheaters who don't get caught ever are paid forever.
A single successful cheat, is a forever payment.
Yup, time to break out the Guinness and cashew, hey hey.
Actually it's time to settle down and get back to some sort of civil discussion.
The never ending name calling is getting old.
If one doesn't like the conversation, just don't jump in.
Any "off the planet" claims, theories and statements will eventually fade away and if there is any substance to the discussion, it will continue on its own.
So, all of you experts, try to simmer down for a few days.
AD
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on July 15, 2015, 09:16:13 PM
CORRECTION:
Casino uses house edge to cheat people out of money!!!!!!!
This is so unintelligent. The casino depends on a random game to win. If ever they deploy a non random game, they are exposed and vulnerable. If discovered by the players, much like yourself. Then a team can walk in, manipulate their bet selections to produce a predictable shoe and legally take the casino for every penny they have. The casino would either have to pay the team, or admit they were cheating.
It is a lose/lose proposition from win/win position. Only a fool of epic proportions like yourself would ever think it would be a good idea.
Pretty much the answer right there in short.
I can understand why casino managers are so defensive when it comes to the automatic card reader / shuffler. They have too much to loose and that's the truth!!!
Is there baccarat blackjack talk radio somewhere's ? you guy's would be famous.
hey , I'd tune in ! It's a great format, have guests from you tube with the newest ideas... etc.
special guests drop in, Ellis and Keith can stop by , book reviews, the list is endless
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 16, 2015, 04:18:15 PM
I can understand why casino managers are so defensive when it comes to the automatic card reader / shuffler. They have too much to loose and that's the truth!!!
Again, I'm no casino manager. Another false accusation. And you offer no evidence.
On the other hand I accuse you of being an imbecile. And for evidence I will submit your very own posts.
The casino has nothing to GAIN from cheating. They have a mathematical edge built into every wager. All they do is make money. The faster the deal, the faster they make it.
You are spewing unfounded lies. A paranoid conspiracy theorist. A Lunatic. To lazy to learn why you lose.
I suspect you have lost. And I suspect you are convinced there is no way you could have lost. And you are convinced the casino MUST be conspiring against you.
I suspect losing is a pattern for you. A pattern you cannot break.
A loser, losing his mind over his losses.
So tell me, how much was it? How much did you lose? What was your impossible to fail bet selection? Post the shoe that put you over the edge. Give me some more examples of people losing that shouldn't have lost. You said you had lots. Show me a shoe that doesn't make sense.
Show me something, anything other than why some pit boss would jerk your chain about reading players bet patterns and programming the auto shufflers to produce the opposite results.
Cause right now that's all I see. I see you as some paranoid ignorant gambler with a limited mental capacity that pestered some pit boss that doesn't give a fart about you or any other gambler during his off hours out of the casino until in frustration and meanness told you some wild tale he knew you would believe and flipping lose your mind over it.
And you have absolutely gone crazy bro.
You've been HAD! The jokes on you. He made it up so you would stfu and leave him alone.
That's it.
Why don't you try an answer some of the questions I've posed to you. Maybe ( and I highly doubt it ) as you try to answer some of them you will start to realize just how preposterous you presentation of this conspiracy is.
You remind me of a guy at the craps table who half seriously accused the casino of having a magnet in the table that made the 7 out more prone to happen. The box, with a bit of thinly veiled sarcasm born from having to endure all kinds of superstitious accusations said " oh, I forgot, let me turn this around and I'll fix that for you" and he picks up the gavel in the drop box and turns it around the other way and slides it back into the drop box. Next thing you know, WINNER!. And the table starts winning. Now that guy is absolutely CONVINCED the box has a mechanism for controlling the outcome of the dice.
That guy was an absolute fool.
Don't be that fool.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on July 16, 2015, 09:17:39 PM
Post the shoe that put you over the edge. Give me some more examples of people losing that shouldn't have lost. You said you had lots. Show me a shoe that doesn't make sense.
I think that's a fair request. Obviously there were some really "bad" shoes that had to be dealt with to cause all this grief.
I'd like to see one or two of them myself.
AD
It is quite humorous to me to see all the effort you're putting into these long post for something that is supposed to be fictitious. You keep asking me rhetorical questions because the cat is out of the bag and you can't stand it. Your house of cards will come crashing down because players now know that they are being cheated.
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 18, 2015, 12:21:21 AM
It is quite humorous to me to see all the effort you're putting into these long post for something that is supposed to be fictitious. You keep asking me rhetorical questions because the cat is out of the bag and you can't stand it. Your house of cards will come crashing down because players now know that they are being cheated.
I believe that HBS asked if you could produce one or two of your "cheated on" scoresheets.
That might help answer a lot of questions that are coming up now.
Thanks.
AD
It really doesn't matter what style or system you play because when the casino tracks a player and programs the shoe to beat him or her it's really not fair. If I am a player that bets a thousand dollars on the 2nd bank or suppose I like to bet on the 3 and break and the opportunity for that to happen comes up 7 - 10 times and it only breaks twice that looks a little suspect to me. I have seen thousands of shoes to where you will average at 5 - 7 3 and breaks. The casino will watch what you like to bet on and they will program the shoe to beat you. The game of Baccarat should be hand shuffled after the cards are washed and then you would have a fair shoe.
This will never happen until the casinos are taking to court for cheating and the gaming commission steps in and forces them to change. By the way the card reader / shuffler is common knowledge. Even the developers of the shufflers brag about the fact that they have the ability to read cards and they use it as a selling point. This is an absolute unfair advantage by the casino. If a player was able to have this kind of unfair advantage they would be asked to leave and probley would not be allowed to cash in their chips. It's an absolute disgrace that we are allowing this to happen!!!
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 18, 2015, 05:20:54 AM
It really doesn't matter what style or system you play because when the casino tracks a player and programs the shoe to beat him or her it's really not fair. If I am a player that bets a thousand dollars on the 2nd bank or suppose I like to bet on the 3 and break and the opportunity for that to happen comes up 7 - 10 times and it only breaks twice that looks a little suspect to me. I have seen thousands of shoes to where you will average at 5 - 7 3 and breaks. The casino will watch what you like to bet on and they will program the shoe to beat you. The game of Baccarat should be hand shuffled after the cards are washed and then you would have a fair shoe.
You clearly have not played thousands of shoes. You clearly do not understand the distribution of events. You are 100% WRONG about there being anything suspect about 7 to 10 runs greater than three with only 2 runs of three.
You have yet to explain how the casino can program the shuffler to beat one person in particular without another, or several other players winning with the same outcomes. Not every player bets the same at the table.
You have no understanding of random at all.
You appear to be another gambler that always bets for the chop, that doesn't believe in long runs of B or P. You obviously have no clue what you are doing. And when you lose, your only recourse is to rant and rave how the casinos cheated you.
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 18, 2015, 05:30:48 AM
This will never happen until the casinos are taking to court for cheating and the gaming commission steps in and forces them to change. By the way the card reader / shuffler is common knowledge. Even the developers of the shufflers brag about the fact that they have the ability to read cards and they use it as a selling point. This is an absolute unfair advantage by the casino. If a player was able to have this kind of unfair advantage they would be asked to leave and probley would not be allowed to cash in their chips. It's an absolute disgrace that we are allowing this to happen!!!
This post is very nearly meaningless. To me, you still sound like a child. A young inexperienced gambler who thinks they know it all. And when things don't go the way you expect them, you throw a temper tantrum and accuse others of cheating.
NOBODY NEEDS TO TAKE THE CASINOS TO COURT. YOU HAVE FOUND OUT THEIR SECRET REPORT THEM TO THE GAMING COMMISSION.
That's all you have to do, the casino will lose its gaming license.
Post me a link where card shuffling manufacturers are bragging about being able to read the cards. Without a link, this is just more baseless paranoid slander from you.
The only disgrace here is you, disgracing yourself with your endless insistence that the casinos are tracking betting strategies and programming its opposite into the shuffler.
I already told you the casinos MUST have a random game or they become exposed to a team of players that will display a very easy to recognize bet selection, wait for the casino to program its opposite and then change their bet and drain the casino of every penny they have. After all, its no longer a secret, some random pit boss told you it was true. The jig is up, the cats out of the bag.
Why aren't you in there right now betting against the entire table making a million?
You're wasting your time in this thread, HBS.....fighting an unwinnable battle vs obvious trolling.
Quote from: gr8player on July 18, 2015, 03:18:37 PM
You're wasting your time in this thread, HBS.....fighting an unwinnable battle vs obvious trolling.
Yeah, It started out as a bit of entertainment for myself. Yes, I'm that bored. This guys got less of an accusation of cheating, than he has a whining for losing.
Hey, Adulay, I'll refrain from resorting to name calling as a means to provoke a discussion. Maybe[smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley] Though I certainly feel this guy warranted some of it and qualifies for some of it too.
Nobody ever had fun following 'the rules'. I won't do my best ;) but I'll put for some effort not to break them next time. :thumbsup:
HBS
This rant that you have displayed will all be pie in your face. The casino thinks they will never get caught, after all it is their house and they control everything. However I beg to differ the crook always gets caught in the end. Your anger in the threads you have posted only proves to everyone on here that every word I have stated is true and you drive the truth deeper & deeper with every thread you post.
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 18, 2015, 06:14:28 PM
This rant that you have displayed will all be pie in your face. The casino thinks they will never get caught, after all it is their house and they control everything. However I beg to differ the crook always gets caught in the end. Your anger in the threads you have posted only proves to everyone on here that every word I have stated is true and you drive the truth deeper & deeper with every thread you post.
I think I may have a solution to your current problem.
Try a little decaf in the morning.
I'd like to think that most people would like to see this "discussion" move along, but unless you can come up with some kind of citation or link to what you continue to state as "fact", it's just kind of pointless.
Just my thoughts on the matter. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Personally I would LOVE to see 7 or 8 "3's" not break when I'm at the table!!
AD
Quote from: Wewin2222 on July 18, 2015, 06:14:28 PM
This rant that you have displayed will all be pie in your face. The casino thinks they will never get caught, after all it is their house and they control everything. However I beg to differ the crook always gets caught in the end. Your anger in the threads you have posted only proves to everyone on here that every word I have stated is true and you drive the truth deeper & deeper with every thread you post.
You should hook up with Al. You guys are on the same page.
Quote from: Jimske on July 19, 2015, 01:49:17 PM
You should hook up with Al. You guys are on the same page.
Call it paranoia, but some weird sh1t goes on in casino's, that will truly mind-f%*k you.
About 4 times this week, I've lost a few bets, stepped things up a bit, then BANG. You get hit by 3 x N9's on the opposing side you are betting, stop betting, bet the other side, N9 to the other side (Bacc terminal).
Of course anything can happen, HOWEVER when the same thing happens over and over and over again, you begin to wonder [seriously]. Last night playing a marathon just as I closed in on my goal target, same thing happens at least twice, not a bunch of losing hands, rather getting battered by N9's.
It was ludicrous, sitting at a Baccarat terminal, you have a big bet on the player which is on 7, and you can predict the dealer will pull the card out of the angel shoe, I say to the guy sitting next to me, "here come the 9", BANG 100% correct. Called them for all kinds, cheating c&^ts, b@$t@a3ds, in a low voice of course, just enough to send the message.
Casino's will cheat to boost profit margins, 1..5% sometimes isn't enough, proving it is another matter.
As I've said to many players, it is not about losing, rather how you lose (timing, barbecued "losing 7-6" too often), and of course the precise shuffling of the Angel gear.
9
I had an abundance of shoes yesterday that were basically in equilibrium for the entire shoe (60^2) , mathematically that is OFF THE RICHTER SCALE, how is it possible to beat odds that are 77% the players favour over and over and over for a 12 hand sequence?? Of course anything is possible, but over and over again? With the EPROM driven Angel technology anything is possible and IMO if casinos want to increase their bottom line, they will explore and investigate, because they are the bottom feeders of the cesspool.
While I don't like clutter my mind with such stuff and prefer to avoid such nonsense, but when things start to happen too often, it is good to keep your wits about you.
Yeah I did manage to turn things around, but more remarkable was watching a very drunk novice player come to the table with about $400, didn't understand the game, kept asking why some hands took additional cards and some didn't. The guy couldn't lose, staggering to watch as he turned $400 into about $4600. I was chatting away to him at about 10am, so I said breakfast is on you mat8, after I strongly advised him his luck might run out and do the opposite of what the casino wants you to do and cash out.
We have a good chat and nice breakky :-)
My opinion .....
I think the only casinos that CAN cheat are the Indian casinos here in the states. They are regulated by themselves and only themselves.
Quote from: Big EZ on August 01, 2015, 05:24:36 PM
My opinion .....
I think the only casinos that CAN cheat are the Indian casinos here in the states. They are regulated by themselves and only themselves.
If you want some cold hard factual history, look up the tribe that started it all. The Seminole's in Hollywood Florida.
I just happened to grow up there in Hollywood as well. My daughter just happened to work her way up under Charlie Tiger and then she became an upper ranking corp. exec with Seminole and was in charge of Rules and Compliance there for numerous years and now she is off to Vegas.
Do your own research and read about how Chief Billie turned it over to Howard Tommie and his history of the tribe and their secret management companies, etc., etc. Look up the guy that arrested the chief and Trbal Counsel when it all started, he was the Sheriff of Broward County (the county that premiered in the show 'COPS') and he chased the tribe for years. He eventually became the Attorney General of Florida, Robert Butterworth. He was never at a shortage about the cheating and the dishonesty of the Tribe that raped multi hundreds-of-millions. The story is not over yet.
BTW, The chief does not live on the reservation in western Hollywood. The chief lives across from his x-wife, almost directly across the street. In Fort Lauderdale, on the extreme east side overlooking the ocean and intercostal waterways in a pair of mansions.
But of course asked Rolex, I don't know anything, I live in the past, I tell stories and I did not go to Hollywood Hills High School which was on Sterling Road about 1/4 miles east of the reservation at 441/State Road 7. Nope, not me.
Casino's do use a card reader; Fact!!!!, They rob good people day in and day out; Fact!!!!, They will be prosecuted for this one day; Fact!!
The only thing I am asking the Casino to do is wash the cards and hand shuffle; However they will never do this because they have to much of an advantage with their card reader.
It's only a matter of time, probably sooner than latter until this dark secret blows up in their face!!!!!!!
Quote from: Rolex-Watch on July 31, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
It was ludicrous, sitting at a Baccarat terminal.......
I had an abundance of shoes yesterday that were basically in equilibrium for the entire shoe (60^2) , mathematically that is OFF THE RICHTER SCALE, how is it possible to beat odds that are 77% the players favour over and over and over for a 12 hand sequence?? Of course anything is possible, but over and over again? With the EPROM driven Angel technology anything is possible and IMO if casinos want to increase their bottom line, they will explore and investigate, because they are the bottom feeders of the cesspool.
Johno, if I may inquire, "Baccarat terminal" and "EPROM driven Angel technology"....what sort of Baccarat game is this, exactly?
If it is some sort of "computer driven" results, in that case, I, too, would be very skeptical. I have a casino called Resorts World that is local to me, but I opt for the three hour drive to AC or CT to play in front of a live dealer rather than trust any money risked at those "Baccarat machines".
I am of the opinion that they can (and will) skew the results into their favor whenever they might feel the need to. Not for me.
Say a cat winning regular at the baccarats and he takes a thousand or coupla thousands profit outta the joint per day, on average. Ain't no reputable mortars and bricks outfit gonna sweat that action and risk losing their licence by cheating customer. Only whining losers and system sellers prattle on about casino orchestrations and cheating, hey hey.
Ah, I can't believe you breathed life into this thread.
I have this conversation because of my gambling experience and understanding percentages and random with local people about the weather all the time. The weather is hard to predict. So when it says only 20% chance of rain, and then it rains, you should hear these people go on and on how it shouldn't be raining. It was only a 20% chance. The weatherman is an unintelligent blah blah blah. I have to point out to them that 20% is still a chance. It didn't say 0% chance of rain. It still has a 1 in 5 chance to rain, and that's a relatively good chance. Plus it isn't raining across the entire state, it is not like a giant thunderstorm the size of the entire state is rolling in dropping 5 inches of rain. (not every shoe in the house is simultaneously defying a 77% chance)
I try not to get hung up in the score. It means nothing. The end result is all that matters. It's got to be selective memory. Do you recall all the times you pulled an 9 vs the other sides 8? Do you really think you are on the losing side of this wager more than 50% of the time? Does management come down and accuse of cheating or reshuffle the deck when your side has monkey duece and pulls a monkey for a total of two, and the other side has nine three for a total of two and pulls a nine for a total of 1, and you win with that 2?
Plus it makes no sense for the casino to try and cheat back your win goal right before you leave and award the drunk guy next to you several times that amount. When he would be the easy target, the guy who doesn't understand the draw rules.
It's just like the dealers saying Player shouldn't win by 12 decisions, Banker has the advantage. It isn't that strong of an advantage, it is very slight, and yet Player still streaks to 20 as well. All bet selections can be compared to a long streak. Sometimes they are going to win again and again and again and not collect an equal amount of losses any time soon in the same manner, and other times they are going to lose and lose and lose and not recover an equal amount of wins any time soon in the same manner.
It's just part of random. You play it long enough and you will see its extremes. If you don't ever see the extremes of random, over a very long (don't ask how long) period of time, then your not playing a random game.
The very same thing happened to me the other night. I expect my side to win, it's not doubled, or singled or hit the 3h or whatever for like 5or 6 attempts and Player gets 6 and stands and banker gets 7 no draw. Or worse! I'm on Banker a bunch, with a 4 5 or 6, and the Player keeps pulling a non draw card and winning by 1. If not outright drawing a N8 or N9 to begin with. And my comeback was betting against the table and my side winning by 1 and the very low end of the spectrum. 1-0 or 2-1. The whole table moaning and groaning as my side gets a crappy draw but there side always getting reduced from a 3 or less.
Of course all of this is part of my non-fiction novel according to wewin222 as I'm actually part of global casino management.
FACT!!! :))[smiley]aes/money.png[/smiley] >:D
Let me say, I also would have some apprehension about playing at a terminal if I couldn't see the shoe, or worse, the shoe was actually a continuous shuffle machine. I can't see how a card reader would be necessary in a shuffle machine but even if there was one. Once the player cuts the cards it changes the order. It also changes the value of the burn card, which again changes the order.
HBS
Live casinos have auto shufflers and each card has an RF identifier so the shuffler can detect which exact card, if any, is missing - also some new chips at the WYNN in vegas have chips with an RF identifier so the casino can keep track of the chips.
So if you are playing at a bac machine with no live dealer like Resorts in Queens NY, the machine can select any card it needs depending on how much is bet on Player or Banker....all the while looking like its taking the next card out of the shoe........which it really is not.
With a live dealer, once the cards are in the shoe, they can't be taken out of the shoe and re-shuffled or the dealer can't take "seconds" out of the shoe like a blackjack dealer can.
The dealer and the casino do not know how the 6 or 7 customers at the table will play so it would be hard to rig the cards, Some may bet on chops, others on a trend etc etc.
Rigging a blackjack shoe is easy...just make sure the dealer gets an 18, 19 20 or 21 on almost every hand. Someone I know played blackjack at an Indian casino and won only 4 hands in a 8 deck shoe of blackjack. Was the shoe rigged? Who knows ? Maybe or maybe not.
As far as cheating goes, live casinos are more worried about dealers and customers playing partners..... or customers past posting bets from seat # 8
or dealers or supervisors stealing chips from the chip tray. I can tell some good stories about these situations.
The only real way an auto shuffler in a live casino can screw a customer in baccarat is to somehow rig the deck so there are no long Player or Banker runs.
And yes...the Indian casinos have their own sureveillance and monitoring of the integrity of the game......so anything is possible with the Indian casinos.......a good way to get back at the Americans who stole their land, gave them smallpox, killed them and their buffaloes and starved them to death.
PS Recently an Indian tribal member was indicted foe embezzelling almost a million $ from a tribal fund.........you just can't trust anyone when it comes to money.
Alrelax,
I looked up Buttersworth. Read some stuff about him against Indian reservation bingo halls. Unclear what his motivations were, can't say I'm a fan of wanting to arrest non Indians from gambling on reservations. Which is the same as me gambling in another country. It's not illegal. Plus Florida has dog racing tracks and Jai Alai gambling, the latter of which has been suspected of being fixed. I've gambled there before and don't like it. No mention of Buttersworth vs the gambling industry in his state, just against the Indians doing it.
I'm sure it's all about regulation and taxes. And less of a moral high ground. I saw a picture of Chief I cheat you's house by the ocean. Sure I agree, he doesn't need a 9million dollar jet. I imagine the management companies were rampant with corruption too. His 12million a year seems unnecessary as the Indian citizens, who are supposed to be benefiting from the revenue surely aren't getting anything except pocket change.
It is a fine example of what self regulation produces.
Personally, I'm not against reservations having full fledged casinos. But, if they are open to US citizens, on land fully encompassed by US soil, then a separate entity of NON Indians, a US gaming commission, should be regulating the action. Making sure all the games are fair. Cards, dice, slots etc.
BTW, the best course of action would be to allow full fledged gambling in Florida, thus cutting off the need for US citizens to go on a tax free reservation.
HBS
seriously, are you that stupid? how could a casino beat you in baccarat by setting the cards in their favor? you have no idea what a player is going to bet. absolutely stupid...i can see why most on here have never played or never played beyond 10 dollars a hand. do yourself a favor and keep it that way. unreal the stuff i read. but this is the internet and it is truly amazing what people can come up with. I have to go because bigfoot just ran across my porch and I been trying to catch em, excuse me.....
Quote from: tdx on August 02, 2015, 01:50:18 AM
The only real way an auto shuffler in a live casino can screw a customer in baccarat is to somehow rig the deck so there are no long Player or Banker runs.
Actually this would be an heavenly scenario for many players. ;-)
as.
Quote from: gr8player on August 01, 2015, 08:28:49 PM
Johno, if I may inquire, "Baccarat terminal" and "EPROM driven Angel technology"....what sort of Baccarat game is this, exactly?
If it is some sort of "computer driven" results, in that case, I, too, would be very skeptical. I have a casino called Resorts World that is local to me, but I opt for the three hour drive to AC or CT to play in front of a live dealer rather than trust any money risked at those "Baccarat machines".
I am of the opinion that they can (and will) skew the results into their favor whenever they might feel the need to. Not for me.
It is a normal Bacc game, dealer drawing, Angel kit, except you sit at terminal pressing button than placing chips.
Over a yr ago I mentioned to a few, the shoes just didn't "feel right", without putting my finger on it, it was like every shoe consisted of everything, 3 by 3, repeating 2's, sizeable chops, repeating 4's, 5's, it really felt pre-organised, obviously that is silly, but like I said it simply just didn't feel right and no matter how you played, you got hit by the most bizarre sequences, then when under pressure, got hammered by N9's on the other side. So you let it go, then 6 months later I get introduced to some electronic programmer via a mat8 who came to the same observations as me.
We had a long 5hr conversation who was explaining EPROMS, blue-light technology, seed values, recursiveness, how easy it is to do this and that, how to program them. They are programmed, because they need to perform a complete card count. We discussed pseudo random v's organised chaos v's true random, the guy was pretty cluely.
Of course it all sounds silly, but when the strangeness becomes too frequent, it should make you wonder. That's all I can say about the matter, no conclusion, but if you're uncomfortable about certain aspects, then bail.
While I don't understand Chinese, you get the drift and more importantly I am taking about a casino that I'm convinced rigged the tables against me back in 2004, averaging over $10k per day profit, this had to be brought to a halt, so that is what they did. I'm in casinos usually 6 ~ 7 days per week, I hear conservations, staff bragging, letting things slip regarding what happened how they treated big players. Such as holding somebody up in chair because he was so drunk while betting $250k per hand, laughing about how they cleaned him out of a few mill in the process
You are dealing with people who are unscrupulous, have no soul, no morals, I've observed many a big Chinese big hitter simply just blank them, don't engage them, you don't make money being stupid or being played.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd8Bp4O1Yi8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd8Bp4O1Yi8)
The Angel kit is programmed, it has to be in order to understand the hand drawing rules of the game. Whether this is or can be manipulated, well you can decide. Give me a hand shuffled game any day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veo_D_65FYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veo_D_65FYs)
The "Angel kit is programmed".....that says it all for me, J. I'd want no part of it, and wouldn't put 2 dollars into it.
But you're an ex "IT" man and know more about computers, and what they can or cannot do, than most of us. So I'd trust your judgement on this affair, but, that said, reading these posts of yours in this thread speaks volumes.....you seem unsure. And, to me, "unsure" is enough to warrant further investigation into the matter before risking any more money.
Aren't you already part of it? The Angle technology is being used world-wide
(https://betselection.cc/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelplayingcards.com%2Fimages_en%2Fangeleye.jpg&hash=e1e35345bb9fbd87477fe300490be4d35059936e)
It is programmable simply because it needs to know the Baccarat card drawing rules, plus needs to count for shuffling purposes and read the cards. The vid above proves what is possible, I'm not saying any thing is being deliberately manipulated, however it is possible for the casino to know in advance how a shoe will play out before it is dealt.
It pays to be aware, like I say, lose a few bets, increase bet size and bam, N9, N9, N9 all to the other side, just a co-incidence right, sure it was, it's only happened about 3 times in a week. The locals paint a similar picture, it's like 15 years ago when nobody wanted to believer croupiers would or could place the ball.
Nobody can ever prove anything, I passed comment elsewhere , about 6 months ago that things seems a little weird, kinda freaky when you can predict the next card in the middle of a hand, even if a dealer is involved. It's just a combination of my experiences, having a long conversation with a subject matter expert and talking to the locals.
This particular casino pulled out a lot of $10 minimum tables which used to be jammed packed, to replace them with a single 24 seat terminal, operated by one dealer. Somebody said last night it is costing them about $6M per year, because nobody likes the terminal. So given loss of revenue, the technology exists to orchestrate, how, I've no idea, but when money is involved, I wouldn't put anything past them, cos' that's the way it is.
Some guy said last night, if he could prove it, I would go to the Gov' and they would lose their license, I laughed at him, because the casino only employs 10000 locals and pays millions in taxes, nobody is losing anything. The Crown has been fined numerous times over the years for shady practises, "wet bus ticket + wrist".
Hey, I've seen that shoe before.....I believe Harrah's in AC uses it. I played it once, not too long ago, either. I noticed no difference as I recall. But, that said, I knew nothing of "it being programmable" or "knowing the drawing rules" or "needing to count for shuffling purposes" or "reading the cards".
I knew nothing of it. I simply assumed that the dealer, still, was in total control of the action. It now appears that may not be the case, and, if that proves true, I will do everything I can to avoid this "Angel" technology.
I can say this unequivocally: The Borgata in AC still utilizes the standard shoes, and that's the bulk of my AC play, so all is well.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on August 02, 2015, 02:05:46 AM
Alrelax,
I looked up Buttersworth. Read some stuff about him against Indian reservation bingo halls. Unclear what his motivations were, can't say I'm a fan of wanting to arrest non Indians from gambling on reservations. Which is the same as me gambling in another country. It's not illegal. Plus Florida has dog racing tracks and Jai Alai gambling, the latter of which has been suspected of being fixed. I've gambled there before and don't like it. No mention of Buttersworth vs the gambling industry in his state, just against the Indians doing it.
I'm sure it's all about regulation and taxes. And less of a moral high ground. I saw a picture of Chief I cheat you's house by the ocean. Sure I agree, he doesn't need a 9million dollar jet. I imagine the management companies were rampant with corruption too. His 12million a year seems unnecessary as the Indian citizens, who are supposed to be benefiting from the revenue surely aren't getting anything except pocket change.
It is a fine example of what self regulation produces.
Personally, I'm not against reservations having full fledged casinos. But, if they are open to US citizens, on land fully encompassed by US soil, then a separate entity of NON Indians, a US gaming commission, should be regulating the action. Making sure all the games are fair. Cards, dice, slots etc.
BTW, the best course of action would be to allow full fledged gambling in Florida, thus cutting off the need for US citizens to go on a tax free reservation.
HBS
Yeah, Bob Butterworth was a piece of work, a tough Sherriff in a tougher terrain during the 'Miami Vice Days' of South Florida. And Seminole was right in the midst of it all.
About Butterworth and gaming in Florida. He said something along the lines that if the tribe was 100% honest and had full integrity it would fare better for the casino patrons. A quote the press had from Butterworth was, "If they had done it the way some other tribes are doing it now, I believe they could be making a lot of money honestly". He also says, "The people going to the tables would know the games were honest....I would have much more of a comfort level."
You have to also remember the Chief of the tribe also put a $5,000.00 and a $10,000.00 reward bounty for anyone coming to him with information of any tribe member going to the press or law enforcement, etc.
So read it anyway you want, I am NOT saying there was card setting, game rigging, etc. What I am saying is 'INTEGRITY'. Plain and simple. When there is integrity from within, everything changes including the type of players and the comfort level, sense and purpose of gaming. Those doing it as a profession, recreation, hobby, sporadic outing, shot at a fortune jackpot or a contest or finally playing in a tournament---it would be a much different and trusted atmosphere. The same as dealing with a chop-shop body shop to purchase a part versus going to a legitimate retail or wholesale outlet.
Integrity has to do with discretion and the meaning of being fair and just across the board. In gaming, in business, law enforcement, etc. Without integrity an entity has a huge empty void.
You know, rules and regulations, coupled with enforcement and oversight---is the proper way to go. Not a self-serving free for all management. I can give you a perfect example of integrity within. Although it is in law enforcement, it involves the same principles that make a 'system' work from within and when oversight is applied-the upper superiors and judges have the knowledge the basics do not include wrong doing, emotions and unfair practices.
The one state highway patrol I am thoroughly familiar with has to write/issue traffic tickets with uniformity and consistency so the topic of fairness is not jeopardized. For example, each trooper has complete discretion for speeding violations from 1 to 14 mph over the posted speed limit. However, it is a strict unwritten regulation--but adhered to rule that, a trooper has to issue citations with the utmost uniformity. The trooper must write everyone issued a speeding ticket within his own protocol of what magic number gets a ticket. If he issues Bill a citation for 6 mph over the limit, he must issue everyone for 6 over that he stops. It is a 15mph over that is state law mandated for a citation and not a warning, etc. Now, if Bill gets a warning for the 6 mph over, then you-I and our family members must get the same warning as well. So, in court the judge will not see a discrepancy in any one troopers speeding citations where it could be based on color, creed, age, gender, sexual bias, a rotten neighbor, etc. Hence, a motorist receiving a citation for 4 mph over storms into the state police barracks and demands upon the Captain that the trooper that wrote him a speeding ticket last night was spiteful, hateful and a racist bum. Covered, handled because of integrity and protocol.
Last week I was leaving a job site at about 2:30am. I received a call to respond to another emergency which was about 110 miles away. It was late, the divided 2 lane highway I was on, had no one in sight. I was doing in excess of 20mph over the speed limit trying to get to the interstate that had an emergency and partial shut down. The fire department on site does not clean up the mess, they only assist to contain it if it is a fire hazard or threatens ground water or humans, etc. So I was stopped by a sheriff about half way there. I seen him flip around from the on coming traffic, I look down and saw the 20 mph plus over. I pulled over, put the interior light on and put my hands on the wheel for him. He comes up and says that he thought I was the state patrol and then saw the vehicle's colors were different. Asked why the rush and all that. I told him. He goes, I have no discretion over 19 mph, but I will call my supervisor and see if he will come out. About 10 min's his super pulls up and says it is okay to let me go without writing a citation.
Checks and balances, rules and regulations and how they are administered is called governance. Unfortunately for varying jurisdictions and industries their are abuses and lack of.
Sorry, the shoe with the reader, reads the cards and that is it. They are shuffled and set before hitting the shoe. I do know several places that allow the players to get more than one deck cut after taking the deck out of the auto shuffler. Once inside the shoe, the reader only helps insure the correct sequence and previous hand decision is correct.
As far as the N9's on an opposing side, that stuff was happening in the 80's and 90's when there were no Midi/Macau style, no readers, no auto shufflers, no terminal games, etc., etc.
Quote from: alrelax on August 02, 2015, 06:31:23 PM
Sorry, the shoe with the reader, reads the cards and that is it. They are shuffled and set before hitting the shoe. I do know several places that allow the players to get more than one deck cut after taking the deck out of the auto shuffler. Once inside the shoe, the reader only helps insure the correct sequence and previous hand decision is correct.
As far as the N9's on an opposing side, that stuff was happening in the 80's and 90's when there were no Midi/Macau style, no readers, no auto shufflers, no terminal games, etc., etc.
No SHITTTTTTTTTTT. You can have any system and of course it will lose. Who cares if it loses to natural 9 or 1-0? A loss is a loss. Reading more into it is LUDICROUS!
I wish we could get everyone together at one casino here in the USA and have a convention at the tables. God I would love it! The stories you could talk about for years and years (if anyone actually played with REAL MONEY THAT IS!).....
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on August 02, 2015, 10:05:06 PM
No SHITTTTTTTTTTT. You can have any system and of course it will lose. Who cares if it loses to natural 9 or 1-0? A loss is a loss. Reading more into it is LUDICROUS!
I wish we could get everyone together at one casino here in the USA and have a convention at the tables. God I would love it! The stories you could talk about for years and years (if anyone actually played with REAL MONEY THAT IS!).....
I find it amusing the go to insult from frustration is "...you've never even set foot in a casino..."
I am back to diligently recording the B and P decisions I witness. I'm always asked by another player, as they lean over and peer at my card what the last score was. I never know, cause I neither care nor record it. They always look at me perplexed that I'm not keeping score. I always wonder why someone who is so concerned about the score NEVER KEEPS SCORE. FFS.
As interesting as it would be to have all these personalities meet in one place, I doubt there could ever be an agreement on where. It would have to be a non Indian casino, with a live dealer, hand shuffled cards, a non mechanical shoe, at a real table. I doubt you could even get 7 to fill up a mini table, however if enough showed up for a full size table with 14 seats. That would be very entertaining indeed.
I'm in. If you will let me borrow some real money to play with. [smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley]
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on August 03, 2015, 02:04:02 AM
I find it amusing the go to insult from frustration is "...you've never even set foot in a casino..."
I am back to diligently recording the B and P decisions I witness. I'm always asked by another player, as they lean over and peer at my card what the last score was. I never know, cause I neither care nor record it. They always look at me perplexed that I'm not keeping score. I always wonder why someone who is so concerned about the score NEVER KEEPS SCORE. FFS.
As interesting as it would be to have all these personalities meet in one place, I doubt there could ever be an agreement on where. It would have to be a non Indian casino, with a live dealer, hand shuffled cards, a non mechanical shoe, at a real table. I doubt you could even get 7 to fill up a mini table, however if enough showed up for a full size table with 14 seats. That would be very entertaining indeed.
I'm in. If you will let me borrow some real money to play with. [smiley]aes/joking.png[/smiley]
HBS
HBS, I play with real money. I backup my talk with PLAY with REAL MONEY! I don't know why we all squabble with each other. We can all agree that there isn't a system on earth that can win EVERY shoe. No way, no how.....You would need a table with UNLIMITED spread and you would need MILLIONS of dollars and you could simply bet BANKER or PLAYER to come in and martingale it....That is a fairy tale and does not exist so no need to talk about it.....
I keep seeing the same stuff re-hashed time after time after time..................
I don't know why im even replying.....????????????????????????? i guess its sunday night and im bored.
I will say this about ALRELAX. I have spoke to him a few times at length and I think his a good guy and means well. He went OUT OF HIS WAY and contacted a host at foxwoods who could accommodate me for a weekend. How many people would do that for a stranger they spoke to a few times????????????????
Al is a good guy. He means well. He says what he thinks and that's ok. Is his way the RIGHT way? The ONLY way? HELLLLLLLLLLLL nooooooooooooo. There is NO RIGHT or WRONG way. We all have different likes, dislikes, financial issues, tolerances, etc etc etc............
Its like the stock market. I know guys who have millions, yet if they lose 10-20k they won't SLEEP for 1-2 days! They are SICK. mentally they can't handle the stress of losing. It eats them up inside. the brain doesn't like losing....
No system is a one fit all. Just like a diet. No diet, NOT ONE will work for everyone. everyones bodies reacts to different foods, activities, and processes it differently. Gambling is the same thing, systems are the same thing. Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, al plans on being in Foxwoods in a few months and I plan on meeting him and see how he plays and see if he bets like he does, gets the perks he claims, etc etc. Does it matter? Not really, I like al. But, I don't think his a BS'er....I think his the real deal based on the host I spoke to.......
can't we all just get along?
Worldbacking, the host was a Vice President of marketing. Unfortunately things have changed there at Foxwoods recently as we discussed and they count on selling those rooms on weekends for north of $350 each for a standard cheapest room, etc. Also, all hosts and everyone in marketing including the Vice Presidents have to submit all room and suite requests to the room committee to get approved, just a new pain in the rear procedure. Anyways, no problem. That host called my wife and I last week and she is paying our airfare and giving me 3,000 points for the shopping mall there. I personally done better at Mohegan and my host there is the Vice President over all the hosts so I would be fixed up but I believe we will be staying at Foxwoods.
She is very conservative in what she says on the phone and unless you know her, she is hard to figure out. But she will try to cross-reference you to my account and justify a comp'd room for the weekend. Maybe we will just get a 2 bedroom suite and my side will take the one bedroom and my mother in law can crash in the living room part. She has to come along cause the baby will be coming as always. It's not a problem at all.
Quote from: alrelax on August 03, 2015, 03:33:46 AM
Worldbacking, the host was a Vice President of marketing. Unfortunately things have changed there at Foxwoods recently as we discussed and they count on selling those rooms on weekends for north of $350 each for a standard cheapest room, etc. Also, all hosts and everyone in marketing including the Vice Presidents have to submit all room and suite requests to the room committee to get approved, just a new pain in the rear procedure. Anyways, no problem. That host called my wife and I last week and she is paying our airfare and giving me 3,000 points for the shopping mall there. I personally done better at Mohegan and my host there is the Vice President over all the hosts so I would be fixed up but I believe we will be staying at Foxwoods.
She is very conservative in what she says on the phone and unless you know her, she is hard to figure out. But she will try to cross-reference you to my account and justify a comp'd room for the weekend. Maybe we will just get a 2 bedroom suite and my side will take the one bedroom and my mother in law can crash in the living room part. She has to come along cause the baby will be coming as always. It's not a problem at all.
Need I say anymore? A class act all the way. A guy willing to give up his contacts that HE MADE to me, someone he don't know from adam.....
2 other people I know on this board (besides Al) who would do such a thing because I know them and out of respect (they know who they are), I won't mention their names because I don't want feathers ruffled. Anyways, Al, I will try my best to meet you there and have every intention of doing so. You know my situation and I just have to find time to get away but the weekends are best for me so it shouldnt be a problem!
I appreciate your hospitality....Talk to you soon. Call you this week or text you im off to bed......
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on August 03, 2015, 03:13:17 AM
HBS, I play with real money. I backup my talk with PLAY with REAL MONEY! I don't know why we all squabble with each other. We can all agree that there isn't a system on earth that can win EVERY shoe. No way, no how.....You would need a table with UNLIMITED spread and you would need MILLIONS of dollars and you could simply bet BANKER or PLAYER to come in and martingale it....That is a fairy tale and does not exist so no need to talk about it.....
I keep seeing the same stuff re-hashed time after time after time..................
I don't know why im even replying.....????????????????????????? i guess its sunday night and im bored.
I will say this about ALRELAX. I have spoke to him a few times at length and I think his a good guy and means well. He went OUT OF HIS WAY and contacted a host at foxwoods who could accommodate me for a weekend. How many people would do that for a stranger they spoke to a few times????????????????
Al is a good guy. He means well. He says what he thinks and that's ok. Is his way the RIGHT way? The ONLY way? HELLLLLLLLLLLL nooooooooooooo. There is NO RIGHT or WRONG way. We all have different likes, dislikes, financial issues, tolerances, etc etc etc............
Its like the stock market. I know guys who have millions, yet if they lose 10-20k they won't SLEEP for 1-2 days! They are SICK. mentally they can't handle the stress of losing. It eats them up inside. the brain doesn't like losing....
No system is a one fit all. Just like a diet. No diet, NOT ONE will work for everyone. everyones bodies reacts to different foods, activities, and processes it differently. Gambling is the same thing, systems are the same thing. Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, al plans on being in Foxwoods in a few months and I plan on meeting him and see how he plays and see if he bets like he does, gets the perks he claims, etc etc. Does it matter? Not really, I like al. But, I don't think his a BS'er....I think his the real deal based on the host I spoke to.......
can't we all just get along?
I play with real money too. Maybe not large sums of money like some. "
real money" But it isn't 10 pence a hand online either. I play B&M only. There is little one can do to prove it one way or the other online though.
A lot of old things get brought back up. I expect some of it is by new players, or old players make 'new to them' discoveries. I'm sure some stuff gets forgotten. And then there is always 'hope'. That driving force that makes you go back to the casino and hope to win this time, makes you push out one more bet, increase your bet beyond your comfort zone. That has you go over some old information hoping you find something everyone has missed. It's just part of human nature.
I find alrelax handles himself pretty well in the face of constantly being attacked for every thread he starts. I don't know the past history he has had with other members of this board, but he certainly handles it 100% better than I would. He doesn't seem to be full of malice or intentionally misleading anyone down the wrong path.
It seems like he is going out of his way to accommodate you on your next gambling trip. I agree, few would put forth the effort. He doesn't come across as a BSer to me either. I guess you are going to find out, or have already found out first hand.
I'll be interested in a trip report. Not for proof, but as a nice read. I enjoy reading the experience of others.
HBS
I welcomed Al when he first got here, and continued to treat him more than fairly, whether I agreed with all the content or not.
Doesn't make me a better person than anyone else here; I simply trust my instincts as to whether or not I'm reading baloney. And I am rather certain that Al is not baloney. He may rub some people the wrong way....who here doesn't at some time or another?....but based upon his posted experiences I can tell that he certainly does play this game.
And, frankly, what more can we ask of any member/poster. We may or may not agree with certain posts, but to me, it's the veracity of the member/poster that matters most. Truth matters....whether or not we agree with content, that's more a subjective issue than anything else.
Yet some members/posters choose to attack what they mightn't agree with; and, even worse, attack the poster himself rather than just the message. This, to me, is both wrong and inexcusable. If you disagree with the message, feel free to open a discourse. But it's always the wiser choice to keep it to yourself rather than attack the poster personally.
I don't think casinos want to cheat at baccarat, anyway...
Maybe one of the best tool to alter the nature of the game by some preordered shufflings will be to enhance the likelihood to produce P hands.
Common sense dictates to prefer B side being 0.18% less disadvantaged itlr. Thus many players will be disoriented when P chance continues to be favorite over the counterpart. Moreover many players adopt a RTM strategy partially worthless whenever some card distributions favoring the less likely outcome will be continuously dealt.
Considering neutral the zero value cards accounting a 30.76% of the total deck, a card distribution clustered into bunches of very high cards and very low cards should raise the probability to get P hands and/or to lower the B advantage.
Whenever the deck is rich of very high cards, the natural points and standing points number will be increased and the asymmetrical factor favoring B side will be lowered.
So even if we win a hand on B side we'll pay an unnecessary 5% tax.
In a word, whenever the deck is particularly rich of very high cards the third card rule will lose much of its 8.6% long term effect.
The same thing happens whenever the deck is rich of very small cards.
We know that very small cards most likely will prompt a P third card hit, but now the deck rich of very small cards will enhance the probability to improve the P point making the B side to forcely stand in some occasions with many losing points.
Surely an actual "naturals" ratio well higher than the expected 34.2% percentage should suggest to bet P side because we are quite lowering the asymmetrical factor, thus we're trying to get closer to a perfect 50/50 proposition where we don't have to pay any tax.
The same should be true when the deck is rich of small cards as the likelihood to have either symmetrical spots and situations where the B standing will be hopeless is raised.
Imo, other preordered shufflings as very chopping shoes or very streaky shoes should help most players.
as.
I can see of no viable way to pre order the cards to confound a table of bettors. Unless they all bet the same exact way together.
I can see pre ordering the cards to counter 1 bettor, but you are taking a risk he/she doesn't change their bet selection.
It would have to be done on a hand by hand basis from the shoe, and that tactic doesn't involve special shuffling.
I can't imagine there is any benefit in waiting for an abundance of low or high cards to either bet P or B. The change in the house edge is infinitesimal. I can't see bettors losing more than usual just because the house edge on any bet approaches 0.00. A 50/50 game still means you win and lose half your bets. Plus variance is still alive and kicking.
How could one recognize an artificial surplus of P doubles over a natural occurrence of P doubles? How would the artificial thwart the bettor any more successfully than a natural occurrence? You certainly can't keep this imbalance going, or you form a pattern, and people will catch it, bet it and win it.
Besides, regardless of which side wins some things remain the same. Combined singles vs runs for instance. If B is suppressed and P is doubling more often, together one compensates for the other. I just don't see any pre order shuffle being strategic for the casino.
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on August 04, 2015, 01:29:42 AM
I can see of no viable way to pre order the cards to confound a table of bettors. Unless they all bet the same exact way together.
I can see pre ordering the cards to counter 1 bettor, but you are taking a risk he/she doesn't change their bet selection.
It would have to be done on a hand by hand basis from the shoe, and that tactic doesn't involve special shuffling.
I can't imagine there is any benefit in waiting for an abundance of low or high cards to either bet P or B. The change in the house edge is infinitesimal. I can't see bettors losing more than usual just because the house edge on any bet approaches 0.00. A 50/50 game still means you win and lose half your bets. Plus variance is still alive and kicking.
How could one recognize an artificial surplus of P doubles over a natural occurrence of P doubles? How would the artificial thwart the bettor any more successfully than a natural occurrence? You certainly can't keep this imbalance going, or you form a pattern, and people will catch it, bet it and win it.
Besides, regardless of which side wins some things remain the same. Combined singles vs runs for instance. If B is suppressed and P is doubling more often, together one compensates for the other. I just don't see any pre order shuffle being strategic for the casino.
HBS
I quote.
Only very strong mix card imbalances could produce a sensible edge over one chance, my above post was just a theoretical thought.
Anyway I think that the most part of the heavy betting players don't like too much the P side and high bettors whose action produces the most part of casinos profits by far prefer to play in the high stakes rooms where every deck is hand made shuffled.
as.