Help a Cat Out

[soxfan]

Can anyone tell me how many tie decision are expected to pop in a standard 8 decks baccarats shoe, hey hey?

[alrelax]

IMO, 8-11. 

Expected is subjective to whom is saying it. 

The past few weeks at one casino there has either been 4, 5 or 6 in a shoe or 14+, but those are not the 'norm'.  It will vary the same as B's and P's do. 

[RouletteGhost]

I'm a roulette CAT

So pardon my ignorance


But can you play tie bet only with a progression safely in a shoe?

Answer is probably no. Can't be that easy

[soxfan]

I'm a roulette CAT

So pardon my ignorance


But can you play tie bet only with a progression safely in a shoe?

Answer is probably no. Can't be that easy

Over the year I have seen a few cats run progression on the tie wager, hey hey.

[21 Aces]

I saw a player catch a double Tie for 5 figures.  They didn't really sweep that and their base wins though to well.

[owenslv]

Banker Wins =    45
Player Wins =    37
Tie Wins =    5

Totals all Shoes
Banker Wins =    38384   0.458919
Player Wins =    37356   0.446628
Tie Wins =    7900   0.0944524

SOURCE: Wizard of Odds website - 1,000 8 deck shoe average

[soxfan]

Banker Wins =    45
Player Wins =    37
Tie Wins =    5

Totals all Shoes
Banker Wins =    38384   0.458919
Player Wins =    37356   0.446628
Tie Wins =    7900   0.0944524

SOURCE: Wizard of Odds website - 1,000 8 deck shoe average

Thanks for the informations, that was about what I figured, hey hey.

[alrelax]

5 ties would be extremely low on the average, really low.  I am not going to argue,  Go to a casino and look.

BTW, look at the same guys simulation of tens of thousands of shoes, each one contains thousands of sample games of bac.  Look at the ties in each.  As I said, it is more like 8-11.  Some shoes will finish with 4 or 5 or 6 and likewise, others will finish with 12-14.  I have seen 18.  But those are not the norm, a real good average would be 8 to 11, ask any regular player.


http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/basics

[alrelax]

Banker Wins =    45
Player Wins =    37
Tie Wins =    5

Totals all Shoes
Banker Wins =    38384   0.458919
Player Wins =    37356   0.446628
Tie Wins =    7900   0.0944524

SOURCE: Wizard of Odds website - 1,000 8 deck shoe average

Maybe I am wrong, I am not a mathematical wiz like yourself, but I see 1,000 shoes with a total of 7,900 total tie wins.  That might just be 7.9 average.  Not 5.  Okay, nice post citing 5.  Thanks.

I would also say it is 38 Bankers average, 37 Players average and 8 ties average per shoe, totaling 83 to 84 hands.  Not the way you quoted it with 87 hands and the wrong number of B's and P's.  Again, nice post.  Thanks.

[owenslv]

Hey Team:

I think you may be right about the Tie bet total. I sent an email off to Michael ShakelWizard of Odds, the author of the info I posted. Let's see what he has to say.

"Hi Michael;

Greetings from Toronto, Canada.
Please refer to your link: https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/1000-baccarat-shoes-8-deck.txt

OK  the summary states:
Banker Wins =    45
Player Wins =    37
Tie Wins =    5

Totals all Shoes
Banker Wins =    38384   0.458919
Player Wins =    37356   0.446628
Tie Wins =    7900   0.0944524

Would you kindly confirm your conclusion of:
Tie Wins = 5
I think it's 7.89 (83640 X 0.0944524)

Thank you,

Garry Owens"

[alrelax]

I played last night, 4 shoes:

Somehow I paid attention to ties, it is about the only wager I almost never make, anyway because the other day I posted the response and stats about this, last night for example was: 9-12-8-13 for the total ties each shoe.  2 of the shoes did not even start ties until the 30th something hand, BTW.

Page down on the link for the Wizard's 1000 sample bac shoes.  Here are the first 50 total ties per shoe:

9
6
3
10
6
11
15
11
3
12
11
5
4
5
7
11
14
7
5
7
9
10
9
8
10
8
7
10
10
15
6
9
10
11
7
12
11
9
14
9
9
6
6
9
3
4
6
9
12


Sample shoes are just that and his stats are not reflective of what happens at any casino for a period of 3 or 5 or 10 shoes, etc.  But the established stats are at 7-8 ties.  One every 10 hands or so.  80 hands per shoe.  Odds reflect that as well.  If it was 5 it would have a pay out of 14 to 15 to 1 or so.

[RouletteGhost]

So let's say you use a progression on tie bet

And win 2 hands a shoe. What type of progression would you need??

Obviously a high chip amount. You aren't gonna do this to make five dollars

[alrelax]

Hands too far apart the majority of times.

Table limits on max as well as usually separate limits on tie bets. 

OMG, the casino already thought of this 40 to 50 years ago........................

[soxfan]

So let's say you use a progression on tie bet

And win 2 hands a shoe. What type of progression would you need??

Obviously a high chip amount. You aren't gonna do this to make five dollars

In response to yer idea about running a serious progression on the tie bet I will pony up the following instructive quote, hey hey.

" To a dangerous place this line of thinking will lead us " Jedi Master Yoda

[Nathan Detroit5]

Greed will sink  you.......