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[Sputnik]

I have seen a old classical charting method where you write down the outcomes horizontal.
What kind of old classical methods did they play? using that classical charting method!
How did they play following strikes and how did they play against strikes or any other method?
I just want a discussion about old known methods.

B
PP
BB
P
BB
P
BBB
P
B
PPPPP
BB
PP
B
P
B
PP
B
PP
B
PP
B
P
BBBB
PPP
BBB
P
BBBBBB
P
B
P
B
PPPP

[roversi13]

Horizontal charting not very common today but quite common before 2000.
Very useful,even compulsory charting, for the most famous method:Venezuela system.
Losing system(originally flat bet), but considered,at that time and for someone even today, the best one at Baccarat if smooth progression.
If I have time I explain it next days

[Sputnik]

Horizontal charting not very common today but quite common before 2000.
Very useful,even compulsory charting, for the most famous method:Venezuela system.
Losing system(originally flat bet), but considered,at that time and for someone even today, the best one at Baccarat if smooth progression.
If I have time I explain it next days

Thanks roversi13 that would be awesome, i see this kind of Charting method back when VIP Lounge Roulette forum was Active, is around 8 years ago or even more.
I also remember one member from VIP or GG once post a mysterios web page or Picture about some one charting this way and mark alot of winnings.

Genarally speaking i am just curios about this stuff and like the discussion.

Cheers

[Jimske]

I have never heard of the Venezuela method or seen that charting method.  I'm one of the few who keep a vertical card.  It'd be interesting to see.

As far as I can tell all the charting methods rely on consistency and domination of particular events plus throw in one of Gr8's (and mine) favorite plays? - "Longer Still."  Recognize inconsistency and changes in patterns.

Here is the best one for soxfan parlay style for me so far.  I played today.  Got 40 units.  I skipped a few hands at the end but played 58 hands.  For those don't bet every hand folks - why not if it is working?  66% hit rate.

p BBBB pp BB p B p BB p BB p B p BB p BB  pppp BB pp B pppp BB pppp B ppppppp BBBB p B p BBBBBBB p BBBB B

J

P.S.  There is nothing non-random about this shoe.  The fact that we got 7 2's IAR on B immediately preceded and followed by a 4 IAR is no more unusual as a 14 IAR for instance.  Yet we still have some insisting that the shoe can't be random because a certain event is a 25,000:1 shot and "I've seen this twice already today."   

[Lung Yeh]

Jimske, if you bring your number of bets even lower, maybe you could touch a win rate of 70-75%?

Anyway, congrats on your improving win rates.

Just watching this approach and its effectiveness. In the casino, with everything going on around you, it gets difficult to withold bets. Every hand seems certain and sooner rather than later the losses pile up ever so quickly.

[Sputnik]

I just have to say that i like the Clean old school Charing method above.
You get a clear view over series and singles.

[roversi13]

Venezuela system(italian version) on GOOGLE....

[Sputnik]

 I serach for it and could not find it, can you post a link!

Cheers

[roversi13]

rolette.forumfree.it

Long discussion and explanation system Venezuela,year 2004

[Sputnik]

Thanks http://roulette.forumfree.it/?t=1519863

[alrelax]

Jimske, if you bring your number of bets even lower, maybe you could touch a win rate of 70-75%?

Anyway, congrats on your improving win rates.

Just watching this approach and its effectiveness. In the casino, with everything going on around you, it gets difficult to withold bets. Every hand seems certain and sooner rather than later the losses pile up ever so quickly.

EXACTLY correct.  The vast majority of players I see at the places I go, except a few in Vegas, always get caught up second guessing and trying for something out of the sky, rather than just playing with the shoe and what the shoe is producing.  No, no one of course wants to really lose their money or lose their previous win money, but they do more often times then not.  They get caught up and are really oblivious to what is going on at the instant time.  In fact, a place I go sometimes I was there last night, one shoe well over 20 players ahead and making repeat player after player, but the people are hell bent 100% it will cut to Banker.  They repeatedly lose and then wager heavier and heavier on Banker.  It actually did finish 24 ahead of the Banker for that shoe.  They talk amongst themselves and convince the 1 or 2 that would have wagered correctly on whatever side to wager the other side that would ultimately lose.  Most of their reasoning is either cutting on a certain number that prevailed as the winning decision last bet or the other side has to catch up.  Someone throwing $1,000 or $1,500 up on a wager and the other guy betting $200 or $100 does get caught up in this and pulls down his wager or moves it to the side the much larger money is at.

Sure, in my book there are times to do that, and that is when those people are wining every hand or nearly every hand and you would have wagered wrong.  But that is usually NOT the case.  Just people getting caught in in everything going on and not being to realize the shoe produces what it wants, when it wants and it is truly random without influence from anyone or any outside source once shuffled.   

And no argument whatsoever with the 'too many bets' or 'difficult to withhold bets', etc.!!!

[Jimske]

Jimske, if you bring your number of bets even lower, maybe you could touch a win rate of 70-75%?

Anyway, congrats on your improving win rates.

Just watching this approach and its effectiveness. In the casino, with everything going on around you, it gets difficult to withold bets. Every hand seems certain and sooner rather than later the losses pile up ever so quickly.

I'm still trying to ascertain the advantage in betting less hands.  I always know why I am making the next bet.  In some cases if I need some extra thought I just ask the dealer to wait or I just don't bet.  No matter what the style you got to recognize very quickly that the shoe is not going your way.  When this happens either change, pause or quit the shoe. 

Perhaps I am misrepresenting what I do.  I will often sit out much of the shoe.  It's just that up to the point where i sit out I am betting pretty much every hand.  Sometimes I will jump back in but my rule then is if I lose 2 of 3 I just quit.

70% strike rate?  Never happen.  I did start my recount though for fun.  After 10,000 bets at 52.13% last 1,076 bets 54.28%.  I think keeping track of my strike rate helps me focus.  I keep a W/L column on my card so I always know what the current W/L pattern is.

Different strokes.  Some guys play to hit it big in a shoe.  I don't.  I grind.  Even a small win in nearly every shoe is my style.  I'm trying to increase my unit win rate with a modified soxfan style -hey, hey.

[Sputnik]

EXACTLY correct.  The vast majority of players I see at the places I go, except a few in Vegas, always get caught up second guessing and trying for something out of the sky, rather than just playing with the shoe and what the shoe is producing.  No, no one of course wants to really lose their money or lose their previous win money, but they do more often times then not.  They get caught up and are really oblivious to what is going on at the instant time.  In fact, a place I go sometimes I was there last night, one shoe well over 20 players ahead and making repeat player after player, but the people are hell bent 100% it will cut to Banker.  They repeatedly lose and then wager heavier and heavier on Banker.  It actually did finish 24 ahead of the Banker for that shoe.  They talk amongst themselves and convince the 1 or 2 that would have wagered correctly on whatever side to wager the other side that would ultimately lose.  Most of their reasoning is either cutting on a certain number that prevailed as the winning decision last bet or the other side has to catch up.  Someone throwing $1,000 or $1,500 up on a wager and the other guy betting $200 or $100 does get caught up in this and pulls down his wager or moves it to the side the much larger money is at.

Sure, in my book there are times to do that, and that is when those people are wining every hand or nearly every hand and you would have wagered wrong.  But that is usually NOT the case.  Just people getting caught in in everything going on and not being to realize the shoe produces what it wants, when it wants and it is truly random without influence from anyone or any outside source once shuffled.   

And no argument whatsoever with the 'too many bets' or 'difficult to withhold bets', etc.!!!

That make sense! thanks for sharing!

[Jimske]

I just have to say that i like the Clean old school Charing method above.
You get a clear view over series and singles.

I suppose people who use other charting methods find it easy to see as well.  Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to.   I have attached my style.  A little hard to see that I circle the 1's in red in order to easily see how they are behaving.  I circle P wins on left and B wins on right column - there are 40 decisions on each side so I always know how much of the shoe is left without counting.

On the bottom right I keep hash marks as I go along to count the number of runs in order to see their relationship to the average. 

This method allows me to write in the amount bet on each column - if I win it gets a circle - lose - no circle!  It also leaves plenty of columns to keep a running total of units or $ won, and a W/L column.

So lots of info on the bias right at my finger tips without much thinking.  I generally know what my next 2 or 3 bets are going to be both in amount and placement.

I play my own game and usually am the first one with a bet out.  The rest of the table usually waiting for somebody or other to bet.  Sometimes I am home alone and when lose my friendly neighbors tell me exactly why THEY won!    Sometimes it's me that is usually the odd winner!  I like that better.  After awhile they get all nervous when they bet opposite me!

It's a stupid guessing and betting game!

[Sputnik]

Thanks for sharing J :-)