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Hi Al,
Are those factory preshuffled shoes?

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Hi Al,
Are those factory preshuffled shoes?

Yes.  But this casino will usually do a 'quick shuffle' if we ask as a few of the H.L. rooms will generally do on their own, as standard protocol in Vegas. 

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This has been a widely debated area with many people in various forums. My daughter worked many years for a large east coast casino chain and was senior management and the liaison with the state gaming board.  I do believe her and what she has told me about there being no possible setup involved and all the rest in relation to that.  I don't wish to go back and forth about this.

Here is a short article from 2014 about how states look at it. 

A cut at random by a player of the deck.  A burn card and a non fixed amount of cards coming off the deck, etc.  Numerous casinos will do a quick shuffle of their factory shuffled decks.  Some casinos use auto shufflers to store and prep two decks prior to their use, etc.  The list is varied.

https://www.gamingtoday.com/industry/article/49296-Ohio_casinos_to_use_pre_shuffled_cards

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From 5-6:

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I was not going to go on a Saturday night, cause always too hectic and crowded and all the back betters hang there and reach over, hit your head and shoulders and not once, 'Oh excuse me' or anything.  Most of the time I set the tone and just tell them, tap me on the shoulder and I will place it no problem or else hands off and the dealers and floor will always side with what I say in that matter.  So I kind of stopped going on Sat nights, but last night my Viet lady friend pleaded and pleaded about some dream she had, LOL.  I got sucked in, and it was a healthy profit wise one shoe I played.  I bowed out after it, stopped at Perkins a few miles down the highway on the way home and tipped the pregnant waitress $30.00 on a $18.00 bill.  LOL, love it.

I will explain how we wagered in another post.  But, 7 table max wagers and lost 2 of them.  +5 on the Max wagers.

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From 5-12.  I also had a great shoe before this, but I lost the card------Here is the 2nd one I played up to hand 60.  Did well.  Everyone lost, they all continually wagered for the cut while it was really strong up to the 5 Players and then when it became weak/1's and some 2's--they switched up to wager for continued repeats.  Really sad.  It was easily and I mean easily a $10k to $20k shoe for all to capitalize on.  But seems less and less play that way any longer. 

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To me, the first section from hand 1 to 30 was strong.  That was Section #1.  Then there was a Turning Point at Hand 31.  Section two was from hand 31 to 45.  Then there was Section 3.  From hand 46 to hand 60.

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From 5-13:

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(I wrote about this shoe in another thread: "Player's Frame of Mind" and copy and paste here to explain this shoe what I was thinking):


Last night we had a rare shoe (IMO) and the Players were up by +17 at one point.  But, I am STRESSING, this is rare.  Dealers and floor with decades of casino experience saying the same thing.  Especially with the shoe having 5 ties, first tie at hand 37 and second tie at hand 58.  A very clear 'regression to the means' prevail with about 12 Bankers to only an additional 3 Players at the very end.  Have I seen shoes where it ended with +20 Players or Bankers, sure.  But not many, very few.

I am scanning the scoring from the shoe and attaching that here: 

* 20170514123303001.pdf (580.61 kB - downloaded 3 times.)

Problem is, in baccarat--more than the other games, I feel is the psych and the frame-of-mind and the game's ability to pull you in and have you set-aside all thinking, your internal protocols and every single one of your, "I will do this if so and so happens", types of plans. 
   
When I say 'YOU/YOUR', I am referring to the typical player and the largest majority of them.  Not you.  In most and the highest majority of player's cases, the problem gets compounded with their memories and their classification of what has happened in the same events/type of shoes earlier or even before (not same day).  Please understand that previous sentence, it is important and will effect you tremendously.  Happened last night and it cost the players, about 6 of them, dearly.  On the 'box' that happened at hand 39, I put $250.00 on the Player for Hand 39 and pressed on hand 40 to $500 and then upped my wager to $750.00 putting my original $250.00 back in my buy-in stack and was 100% determined to ride it out the end, no matter if it was 1 more or 10 more.  Everyone went against me.  Zero camaraderie and that sucked, but that is a whole different story in itself. 

What is really strange, Maybe AsymBacGuy can comment???, is the shoe was perfectly even at this point, 19 Bankers and 19 Players.  Dead on even!  19 Players with the first Player coming out after the F-7 and the 1st tie at hand 37.  I read the characteristics of the shoe correctly (which does not always happen) but there was so many obvious characteristics of the shoe favoring the Players and I felt it.  I just won the F-7 (40:1 $25.00) wager and told the others this, 'Player heavy--let's go'.  They pointed and discussed and pointed to the score board and discussed more.  Dealer was patient, no pressure, no one in a hurry.  Everyone wagering between $10.0 and $400.00 or so a hand. As I said, I throw up $250.00 on the first Player to even it out, I love when one side is behind and it creep up, then it almost always, goes back and forth, like it just got to 15/14 say.  then 15/15.  Then 16/15/  Then 16/16.  Then 16/17.  Etc., all the time!  Like 8 out of 10 in my book anyway.  There was nothing else to wager on, really.  Almost everything was equal but no ties.  And no ties to me after hand 15 to 20 or so---tells me something will happen.  Long streak, several F-7's within groups of hands upcoming, etc.,  something will happen. 

So I placed the $250.00 and Player won.  Then it was the 19/19.  I pressed to $500.0 and Player won again.  Now everyone went Banker and started to go heavy on the Bank.  I put the $750.00 on the third one to make the 3 Players.  Boom, it did.  My logic as I said before, was put my $250.00 back in my buy-in in case it falls off, I am whole.  But I was not going to wager against it, what all other 6 or 7 players were explicitly doing.  I know in my heart--and I am not just saying it after the fact or here, I would have went $1,000 or $1,500 with camaraderie.  You know that, "Hey bro--You chicken you go home" type of ribbing, but these were just casino friends that we know each other not long term players together, etc.  I always wager harder and heavier with strong camaraderie, always.  Any ways, I left the $750.00 on and I won the next  7 wagers and lost the one that it fell off to the Banker on.  ($250/$500/$750 X's 7= $6,000.00 minus $750 where it changed up)  netting $5,250.00. Now we were at 27 Players to 20 Bankers.  Everyone of those Players hands had a total point value of 6 or better I think, maybe one hand the Players had to draw on 2 monkeys and got an 8 or 9.  The characteristics were just strong Players, and remained strong.  Nothing to do with trends or patterns in my mind. Everyone was yelling, demanding, counting on and stacking it up for the Banker to rebound, Regression to the Means, whatever.  Good LORD!!!!  I wish my better casino friends were there, we would have went out into the aisle and did a Double Dutch Bus shake to Frankie Smith's Philadelphia song!!!  I know with the right people there I would have been table max by the 3rd Player coming out. 

I stayed on the Players, although and I got extremely pissed with myself, I cut down to $300.00.  I won 2 at $300.00 each and the table was not a fun place.  The people turned a great shoe into a misery ride and their aura was the same as being at a funeral for a loved one.  Seriously!  Great story wording, but 100% reality last night, 110%!  I upped the next wager to $600.00, pressing the 2nd Player generated win, I was not going to, I also felt it was going to be Banker.  But just the aura, the reality of it all, how much cash each one put into attempting to prevail on all of their pre-conceived bet placements that failed.  I won the next four in a row as you can see.  I wrote it wrong on the chart because of the way I was wagering with 2 wagers at $300 each and then the $600 on the remainder.  Then I pretty much stopped wagering until the Bankers came out in their little run of 9.  Totally matching the Players sun of 9 and the Bankers run had 3 ties in there, ties of 8-8, 9-9 and a 0-0.  I caught the first 3 Bankers, not wagering on the ties and then with the aura and the air so thick anyone could have cut it with a knife at the table, I stopped wagering!  And me and the guy next to me and the dealer, we specifically talked about 'regression to the means' and the Banker going to make an attempt to catch up some.  I did not wager on the remaining Bankers and I am really ashamed of myself.  Please note:  I am not blaming the others at the table, it was my own fault and I just succumbed to their way of thinking, influenced or over whelmed, I can't say, but it was my own fault and that sucks--but it was what it was.  It was obvious and I should have went heavy on the 2nd or 3rd ones and pulled back even money for the risk and just left something out.  I do seriously think it was the ties at the 8 and 9 two ties hands back-to-back and/or the way the shoe previously went with being a 'Players' shoe, etc.  Possibly if my regular friends and casino friends were present, I would have went fairly heavy on the Bankers, but I stopped wagering.