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[NikeGolf]

Hello everyone,
I'm a new member here been kind of lurking over the past few weeks over some topics before signing up.  I am looking for tips on how to stay disciplined at the table and in the casino in general.  My favorite game is baccarat but over the past year it has been rough.  I've had good days and bad days, mostly bad.  My goal is to flip those days into more good ones, I just don't know what I can do different besides just getting lucky.

I don't gamble with what I can't afford to lose but I generally try to go with $1000.  Honestly I am happy when I'm up just 200.  I would like more obviously but it's better than nothing.  My issues are reading to shoe and when to appropriately bet on streaks and chops.  I flat bet a lot and when I increase my bets, I typically lose.

I stay disciplined for the most part and if I am up I put my ante back in my pocket.  There have been times where I haven't been so much but I believe most gamblers could attest.  I really can't grasp on how a shoe can be readable.  I feel like I might have luck by flipping a coin and just picking that way.

Anyway I am not looking for  a strategy just some insight on how to control my emotions, my betting style and potentially predicting majority of my bet selections.  Any insight will be greatly appreciated, thanks.  I look forward to being a part of this community as well.

[21 Aces]

I look more and more at this concept everyday:

Easy Panda vs. Hard Dragon:
https://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/easy-panda-vs-hard-dragon/msg52114/#msg52114


Given a bank roll, buy-in(s), targets and limits or none of any of those, typically if a player is playing strong and tight they can make a level of basic win within the first couple hours.  Is it good enough or not?  Also, no one cares.  They do not care if you clip a huge win(s) and they do not care if you walk in and get smoked by hitting your stop very fast.  Any experienced player has seen everything so we can only control our discipline, learning curve and approach to the game.  Holding a stop point and discipline is victory.  Take a L and making it a monster L is the worst.

Last night I scored a run of 4-5 losses in a row after being up from out of the gates.  Instead of staying in the pocket at one table and crouching tiger into a hand that looked good, I started jumping around to other tables to catch hands that looked good.  When you jump around you don't have the inside look at what has been happening over the past 3-10 hands, etc.  I also went to train and not play, and I played.  I also started playing with the intent of betting no high payout bets, and took win off high payout bet wins early as I started playing high payout bets almost right away.  That is what the shoe was giving though.  That is one way to chalk up a W...

A baccarat shoe will have sections of certain trends and characteristics.  The stronger the trend, the longer and more consistently it lasts before breaks(s).  We can only align with the party and catch it before we are late to the party.  The best baccarat can offer are power Bank and power Player formations, but there are so many like 2's, jumping shoe, etc.  and then trends in the derived roads.

Too bad so many players do not get on-line and are observing The Fire Rule of Baccarat.  FING HELL.  I LITERALLY SEE SOME OF THE SAME PLAYERS I HAVE SEEN FOR YEARS EVERY TIME.  EVERY TIME I PLAY, THEY ARE THERE.   And everyone knows everyone from players to the most junior on staff to the most senior.  Baccarat players need to do a much better job of ganging up more formally and in a more organized way so you would think it would happen on-line at least.  A lot of players all around the world 24-7.

The First Rule of Baccarat:
https://betselection.cc/baccarat-forum/the-first-rule-about-baccarat-is/


The best #1 advice I would say which I am looking at as well is to become a social or 'sosh'.   Players will get on a baccarat shoe that is hot for a reason.  You can see it on the floor all the time.  Watch for those tables and get on it fast.  It only takes one win to have a worst case break even in a flat betting strategy.  I have stayed away from hot tables a billion times as every player has because we think we missed the party.  The party may not be over.  This is a much more viable approach than committing to work through any baccarat shoe no matter how difficult.

Sosh:  I'll be at the scene, but 'I am the scene.'  approach.



#2 - training.  Commit to training on-line, with a real setup away from the house, with zero unit size at the house, and with xiao xiao unit size at the house.  Professionals train.

[NikeGolf]

Thank you very much for the reply and advice.  That's what I don't understand about the shoe though.  How can what happen previously in the shoe dictate what will or won't happen.  I feel like riding streaks is the best thing you can do but I have a hard time after the streak because sometimes it never continues even after it breaks.  Hopping tables might be more appropriate instead of trying to fight a show that hard to understand.  A frustrating shoe is usually what puts my discipline level to the test.

[alrelax]

"I started jumping around to other tables to catch hands that looked good"......which IMO is disasterious to the max!  THe highest majoirty of the times, it will not work and then when it does, you get sucked in--just as all the other things I wrote about and the negative phsyc of doing so in baccarat. 

There is a certain detailed explanation what has served me well, very very well and if I, 1) follow it-- 2) stop the "aura" influence at the table  and 3) adhere to my visions;--like I said, very well it has served me.

You can read my detaile dexplanation that I tried to lay-out  actual events in baccarat that tend to dominate or not:

"Indentifiable Events in Baccarat, The Player's Advantage" within my Blog on the board here or the Baccarat section here as well.

And, IMO--"What will or won't happen"; is 100% what will happen within the shoe.  There are no typos in that sentence and it is a complete thought as well. 

[21 Aces]

A thoroughly shuffled (preferably with Shuffle Master or equivalent) and cut baccarat shoe is like a fine piece of jade, a diamond, or a snowflake.  You will never find one that is the exactly the same, but very similar.  Bank cut, Player cut, high payout bet win/ animal cut, or non-trending.  Most experienced players have seen everything and will see something new every night.  It is more effective to align with what the baccarat shoe is showing than counter it.

I do best when I have a good 'The party is over' mindset or 'It's about to F us' mindset to balance and not get in too heavy or too late or be too aggressive.  That is when looking at first bet.  If you get up 1, 2, 3... then it should warrant a different view on risk/ reward.   But every player has missed the boat a million times.  Big boats... just sitting on the shore watching the boat sail around the bay.

A recent shoe at a stadium table was literally close to forever on jumping with one break.  I never hopped on.  I would check on go all around to all the other tables in that section, go all around to the tables in another section and come back - still jumping.  One bet on jumping and then a check counter bet back to maintain the jumping shoe trend and it would have been like 13-1.  I joked about what I had done with a few other players that were on it the next night.

That is where other players come in.  Effective leverage of the wisdom of the crowd ganging up on a hot shoe.


'2) stop the "aura" influence at the table'
That is why I love, love, love playing at the mini tables - especially lined up with positive energy players that are more senior in their years.  Less show, more go, but more importantly counter view vs. bad group think.  It is easy to think bigger stakes players are better, but one can find hard strikers at any bet size.
Bigger table sections are always alluring because there is more money on the wood on average, but many times it is like being on the Titanic.

'How can what happen previously in the shoe dictate what will or won't happen.'
I think of each part of the game as an animal. Bank is an animal that can get angry and shoe power/ revenge.  Player is an animal that can get angry and show power/ revenge.  Animals (Dragon/ Panda, etc.) come out to play or are no where to be found.  Contrary to what the _hithouse Dark Wizard, his Dark Riders, and math bro's think, when something in baccarat starts trending it has the possibility of a remarkable trend.  At times you can feel it.  Last night there was a shoe that was 2 max Player except one 3 in a row where the 3rd was a Panda.  One of so many things that are hard to believe that happen all of the time.  Much better examples are everywhere.

Many would agree that a strong Bank shoe trend with 1 Player breaking it and then more Bank is the best trend possible.  Same but with Player dominating for skilled players.  A long Bank Dragon is Bank showing a lot of power and Player sucks on the 2 cards, and sucks on any 3rd card.  Player literally can not get a break.  A lot of low count first 2 cards for Player and 3rd card reduces with Bank showing high first 2 cards and getting lucky 3rd cards equate to a long Bank Dragon.  Then all of sudden when Player is on the ropes, party is over and it might put up a 3 or 4 card run down that counters.  I have seen a player blow their whole night which was rock star by repeatedly placing on Bank huge in the face of a Player move of just 3 or 4.

This is why you see hot tables go empty.  Players on average think that the good run has ended and it is about to get a lot more difficult.

If it didn't require work, skill, max effort, a lot of risk, and was easy as anything, I would be in Busan calling it in from whatever is today's successor to Fix:

[BEAT-THE-WHEEL]

Hi Nikegolf,
Please try "follow the second last", aka penultimate, 
Since baccarat known as streaky, you may try to chase the dragon,
And see what happened..
Then you investigate why you LOSE, and why you WIN,  and try to devise a strategy to avoid long losses , variance,
Thanks

[NikeGolf]

Thanks you guys for shedding some light, alrelax I will take a look at some of your blogs but what I have read just today have been very enlightening.

[alrelax]

A thoroughly shuffled (preferably with Shuffle Master or equivalent) and cut baccarat shoe is like a fine piece of jade, a diamond, or a snowflake.  You will never find one that is the exactly the same, but very similar.  Bank cut, Player cut, high payout bet win/ animal cut, or non-trending.  Most experienced players have seen everything and will see something new every night.  It is more effective to align with what the baccarat shoe is showing than counter it.

I do best when I have a good 'The party is over' mindset or 'It's about to F us' mindset to balance and not get in too heavy or too late or be too aggressive.  That is when looking at first bet.  If you get up 1, 2, 3... then it should warrant a different view on risk/ reward.   But every player has missed the boat a million times.  Big boats... just sitting on the shore watching the boat sail around the bay.

A recent shoe at a stadium table was literally close to forever on jumping with one break.  I never hopped on.  I would check on go all around to all the other tables in that section, go all around to the tables in another section and come back - still jumping.  One bet on jumping and then a check counter bet back to maintain the jumping shoe trend and it would have been like 13-1.  I joked about what I had done with a few other players that were on it the next night.

That is where other players come in.  Effective leverage of the wisdom of the crowd ganging up on a hot shoe.


'2) stop the "aura" influence at the table'
That is why I love, love, love playing at the mini tables - especially lined up with positive energy players that are more senior in their years.  Less show, more go, but more importantly counter view vs. bad group think.  It is easy to think bigger stakes players are better, but one can find hard strikers at any bet size.
Bigger table sections are always alluring because there is more money on the wood on average, but many times it is like being on the Titanic.

'How can what happen previously in the shoe dictate what will or won't happen.'
I think of each part of the game as an animal. Bank is an animal that can get angry and shoe power/ revenge.  Player is an animal that can get angry and show power/ revenge.  Animals (Dragon/ Panda, etc.) come out to play or are no where to be found.  Contrary to what the _hithouse Dark Wizard, his Dark Riders, and math bro's think, when something in baccarat starts trending it has the possibility of a remarkable trend.  At times you can feel it.  Last night there was a shoe that was 2 max Player except one 3 in a row where the 3rd was a Panda.  One of so many things that are hard to believe that happen all of the time.  Much better examples are everywhere.

Many would agree that a strong Bank shoe trend with 1 Player breaking it and then more Bank is the best trend possible.  Same but with Player dominating for skilled players.  A long Bank Dragon is Bank showing a lot of power and Player sucks on the 2 cards, and sucks on any 3rd card.  Player literally can not get a break.  A lot of low count first 2 cards for Player and 3rd card reduces with Bank showing high first 2 cards and getting lucky 3rd cards equate to a long Bank Dragon.  Then all of sudden when Player is on the ropes, party is over and it might put up a 3 or 4 card run down that counters.  I have seen a player blow their whole night which was rock star by repeatedly placing on Bank huge in the face of a Player move of just 3 or 4.

This is why you see hot tables go empty.  Players on average think that the good run has ended and it is about to get a lot more difficult.

If it didn't require work, skill, max effort, a lot of risk, and was easy as anything, I would be in Busan calling it in from whatever is today's successor to Fix:

Players do the 'doom' to themselves with no knowledge of what can happen or will happen.  There are just as many 'opposites' as there are 'trends/patterns/ideal times to wager', etc.,  where a player can turn $500 or $1,000 into $10k or $25k with ease.  Their downfalls come 99.99% of the time because  of that Foutne 7, Panda, Dragons Tail, or some other type of belief in what might be producedetc., etc., and so on.  There are more times that the shoe and every other shoe will not produce what they saw was 'great', etc.  And, when something is that 'great' most players will not even pounce on it, they are literally scared to win, period.  They hit it and they will continue and continue and continue.  In fact the casino and everything and everybody will almost encourage the player to continue with the same type of wagering that won him the $$$. 

That is why those pens, scorecards and scoreboards are there as well.

BTW, baccarat was not even an Asian game to start with, Macau imported it along with other countires but long after its invention and refinement in Europe, as in hubdreds of years later.  It was not even into the USA until the Mob seen its value from their operation in Cuba in the 1950's, etc.  The only thing Asian about the game is the twists the casino operators put onto it beucase of the amoutns of money the Asians spend on it.
LOL.

[21 Aces]

Yes  - Italy.

When you really think about it, it is surprising that there are not actual brick and mortar academies for all games.  For many things in life there is a lot of informal and formal training out there for it.  But we are in 2018!  So advanced with smart everything!

[21 Aces]

Reading the baccarat shoe is assisted by relevant scoring and note taking because every shoe has sections of trending and character.  There is much more behind each hand than just the top level outcome.  If something is notable, you can note it.

For example, if Bank is winning, but having to beat Player 6, 7, 8 to do it then the risk for continuation for Bank is higher than if every time Player is scoring low first two cards and getting luck for Bank 3rd card reduction.  Player 7 is the ultimate high payout bet kill.

BUT, the casino dynamic will always include the X factor of other players that can push the pace of play.  I often find that writing up a bunch takes away time from thinking about the next hand in terms of bet selection and size.  This is a big reason why I think some players go minimum buy-in or minimum bet size private so they can control this aspect of the game.  If you play at a house that is packed and are likely to be standing behind, it becomes very difficult to write anything.  Also, you are likely to many players running into you and might mark them up with your pen.  I can't believe how many times people are just standing there and others run right into them more or less.

[Johno-Egalite]

I really can't grasp on how a shoe can be readable.  I feel like I might have luck by flipping a coin and just picking that way.

Anyway I am not looking for  a strategy just some insight on how to control my emotions, my betting style and potentially predicting majority of my bet selections.  Any insight will be greatly appreciated, thanks.  I look forward to being a part of this community as well.

I agree with you, a shoe is readable after the event, which can be meaningless, so what you notice a ru of chops or repeating 2's, the run, or shoe characteristics, can change straight after you notice the them and have no relevance to what is coming next.

Regarding controlling your emotions, I suggest self talk.  Remind yourself what you are there for (to win money), don't buy into the fake smiles and compliments, they are there to make you lose discipline. It doesn't matter so much what side you are betting, rather IMO how you are controlling your money, no reckless bets, no desperation bets, just slow and methodical, reach your goal target which you determined even before you set foot in the casino, get your business done, cash up then relax and enjoy yourself. 

When things aren't going your way, back off, lower the bets, grind back what you just lost, it adds time to the clock, that doesn't matter, sure beats going home with empty pockets. Your staking plan needs to be on the money along with a plan B. 

Casino's expect you to lose and have a good time while your doing so, show them your better than that, they don't like disciplined players, they like reckless bettors, who bet every hand trying to recoup, you're not there to make friends (nor enemies), keep thinking ahead, when you place your bet, you should have a go idea the size of your next bet if it goes south. 

Up and down is all part of the game, how you handle things during the flow will set you apart from the rest (composure).

BTW - Going home "even" is just as good as any win. 
     

[NikeGolf]

I agree with you, a shoe is readable after the event, which can be meaningless, so what you notice a ru of chops or repeating 2's, the run, or shoe characteristics, can change straight after you notice the them and have no relevance to what is coming next.

Regarding controlling your emotions, I suggest self talk.  Remind yourself what you are there for (to win money), don't buy into the fake smiles and compliments, they are there to make you lose discipline. It doesn't matter so much what side you are betting, rather IMO how you are controlling your money, no reckless bets, no desperation bets, just slow and methodical, reach your goal target which you determined even before you set foot in the casino, get your business done, cash up then relax and enjoy yourself. 

When things aren't going your way, back off, lower the bets, grind back what you just lost, it adds time to the clock, that doesn't matter, sure beats going home with empty pockets. Your staking plan needs to be on the money along with a plan B. 

Casino's expect you to lose and have a good time while your doing so, show them your better than that, they don't like disciplined players, they like reckless bettors, who bet every hand trying to recoup, you're not there to make friends (nor enemies), keep thinking ahead, when you place your bet, you should have a go idea the size of your next bet if it goes south. 

Up and down is all part of the game, how you handle things during the flow will set you apart from the rest (composure).

BTW - Going home "even" is just as good as any win. 
     

Thanks for the insight, I really appreciate it.  I'm digging this community and how open everybody.  Unfortunately I went on a black jack bender and slowly making my way back to the bac tables.  I have had some interesting conversations with veteran baccarat players in regards to playing the dragon bonuses.  I was told to never play without throwing something on the bonus,

[Johno-Egalite]

If you look at the house edge on these side bets, you would use common sense and avoid them all, that includes the Tie bet.  It's hard enough trying to buck a HE of 1.5%, never mind 10% or more. 

Players recall when these bets hit and they become highly addictive, yet conveniently forget the misses and the cost wasted chasing these type sucker bets.   It creates more excitement when they hit than any Bank or Player win, players buzz off it, yet in the LONG TERM they are going to cost you, doesn't matter they came in a few times shoe, pay more attention to when they are not hitting and see the bigger picture. 

The house edge accompanying these bets tell you all you need to know, do you want to win or do you just like gambling.   

[Ted009]

If you look at the house edge on these side bets, you would use common sense and avoid them all, that includes the Tie bet.  It's hard enough trying to buck a HE of 1.5%, never mind 10% or more. 

Players recall when these bets hit and they become highly addictive, yet conveniently forget the misses and the cost wasted chasing these type sucker bets.   It creates more excitement when they hit than any Bank or Player win, players buzz off it, yet in the LONG TERM they are going to cost you, doesn't matter they came in a few times shoe, pay more attention to when they are not hitting and see the bigger picture. 

The house edge accompanying these bets tell you all you need to know, do you want to win or do you just like gambling.

It is so true regarding the side bets. Years ago, I used to keep track of the side bets, to my surprises, I never place any side bets again.

Cheers!!

[alrelax]

It is so true regarding the side bets. Years ago, I used to keep track of the side bets, to my surprises, I never place any side bets again.

Cheers!!

If you wager anything, no matter what it is on a regular and consistent basis you will suffer.

As far as 40 to 1 f-7s and 25 to 1 p-8s or 200 to 1 8/9s, when they are appearing for whatever tine frame, they are powerful and could easily be 5 or 6 or only 1 in a whole shoe.

But i found several ways to wager them out of my win money and it supplements other b or p wins with great momentum. 

If you soley wager for these or anything else, you have no idea how to properly play this game.