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[ADulay]

All,

  Well, it's been getting a bit worse each time I decide to drive down there and play at the B&M Indian casino south of me.   They are very slow to open new tables and they do let the players get a bit "sloppy" at the table.

   Now I understand that the Asian guys really like eating 7 course meals while they play.  I don't get it, but they ALL seem to do it in the "high roller ($100) table area.   OK, you can eat prime rib over your shoulder.   Seems odd, but I guess that's the current state of "being cool" I suppose.   Me?  I'd rather sit at a comfortable table in a the lounge and carry on some pleasant conversation while I relax and have dinner.

  But I digress.

  I show up to play baccarat tonight and the ONE TABLE in the regular area is packed full.  Chain smoking?  Yep, got that at every position.  Bottles, glasses, cigarette packs, miscellaneous debris and ashes everywhere?  Yep, got that in spades.

  I ask if they'll be opening another table soon.   "Not tonight" says the man with the suit and tie behind the curtain.   I tell them I'm not about to play "over the top" of any of these guys and walk away to take a break and dabble on some easy slots.

  I come back to the ONE OPEN TABLE later and most of the players are gone, but their detritus is still on most of the table and there are only two other people there.   The dealer mentions that they have not left, they're just taking an "extended" break of some type.   I told him I was not about to play over their positions, even if they were not currently there.

  Still no new table to open up.   And this is a Friday night!!!

  OK, so I take a hike and decide to just blow it off and head on home.  It's a good night for a motorcycle ride and the 120 miles clears my head nicely.  I figure what the heck, I'll just go home and play out a shoe online and chalk up tonight as an aberration of some sort.

  Wouldn't you know it, I log into BPH and their system is down and I can't get into the live game, at least not from here.   Arrrrrrgh.

  Oh well, tomorrow is another day and I'll be halfway down to the casino anyway so I'll check it out on a Saturday afternoon.

  AD

[21 Aces]

Access to houses with more than enough tables is the solution which isn't viable for many.  Lucky to be a location that has it is a big advantage.

I don't really understand eating at the tables, but some players clearly like it, and it seems the houses that offer that see it as a way to keep more players playing.  The arrangement with all sorts of restaurants seems to be a cleaner, better approach.

I have seen countless times where one party is allowed to take a table without a minimum buy-in or private and with their set-up and with breaks, but one table out of scores and scores and scores of tables.

Lastly, the time will come for some players that access to action becomes a top priority and that might involve a move.  20-30 minutes travel to play at an active house(s) can be a huge difference in play, but that is only considering if you take reality into account.  Some players have a special magic genie carpet which instantly makes them arrive wherever they want to play.  Then while playing they wear that magic genie carpet and it shields them from all of life where they can then only execute the best play possible.

[alrelax]

 If it's the one I'm thinking of my daughter was a full vice president there for many years she just left there about a year ago to go out to Vegas. There's a guy named Henry P. there from Atlantic City that's my host there and a very good friend of mine if you need anything I'll give Him a call. I'm sure he'll Compu something.  It's been a couple years since I've been down there can't say I miss it. I miss the area I grew up in but I can't say I miss that one Casino there .  As far as the food goes it's ok but rather  go out by State Road 84 Or out by Davie.

[Babu]

The good ol' days of playing this game is gone.  At least in my area.  I used to sit down and enjoy a few glass of cocktail, sometimes staying out for 15-20 hands without making a bet.  There was even a non-smoking room.  Very idiotic for someone to think just putting a non-smoking table sign at the table next to a smoking table will work.

Now it looks like a zoo.  Hardly anyone sits and food trays are all over the place.  While some of food smells good to eat, it's very unpleasant when you're trying to concentrate the game.  Then there's people smelling like they haven't shower in days.  Some smell like ointment, moth balls, urine and even poop.  You have people farting and burping without having the courtesy to walk away.  You also have the old annoying retire people that comes on the bus.  They act like kids.  There is not a single day that they don't fight.  Every time there is a long streak, a mob of them come and literally crush you at the table.  The pit boss had to stop the game for 15-20 to calm them down only to have them do it again.  It's hopeless to stop them. You can have your own private table, but you have to pay for it and the minimum that they make you play is outrageous.

For the longest time, the monkeys have caused me to lose.  I've tried online but it did not workout so I had to return to B&M once again.  I learn to deal with them.  Somehow today, everything managed to make me boil.  You have the usual monkeys following you everywhere, fighting and holding up the games.  You have the bad smell unintelligent dealers making all kinds of mistakes from dealing incorrectly, counting the points wrong, grabbing your money when you win and entering wrong results.  I had to take a 20 min break to cool myself down.  It's a little better on the weekends.  You have to working people come and just enough retiree to keep the game going.

[alrelax]

What Babu just said!  Absolute truth to so much and in so many casinos around the country.  Although, half my family is Asian, what you quote about the food, the smells, their personal hygiene levels of so many and their bodily functions are less then to be desired!  Although 'Whites' can also be nasty I grant you, but as my wife and all the in-laws say---stack up a couple hundred of the regular everyday casino Asians and an equal amount of casino Whites and my Asian family members would much rather be around the 'Whites' at the casino.  Sorry if that offends people here, but it is the absolute 1,000% truth! 

Oh heck, I am in the Midwest and a more rural part of it than the larger metro urban areas.  There is an Asian crowd that comes from the larger metro areas here and for the most part of them, they are almost the opposite of their counterparts in most parts of the country.  Where I am at, I would have to estimate the players you are describing, we have about 1 or 2 at a table rather than 5 to 7.  And an equal amount when it gets busy and there are no seats that would be standing and betting over your shoulders fr those places around here without a high limit room.  But I know the larger areas and what Babu is talking about, too well!!!  It is disgusting.  Although less here in the Midwest with properties having high-limit rooms, what Babu is describing is much more prevalent on the main floors and the Asian gaming (non-high limit rooms) than it is in the high limit rooms.

Re: My casino is lazy
« Reply #3 on: Today at 11:59:17 am »

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The good ol' days of playing this game is gone.  At least in my area.  I used to sit down and enjoy a few glass of cocktail, sometimes staying out for 15-20 hands without making a bet.  There was even a non-smoking room.  Very idiotic for someone to think just putting a non-smoking table sign at the table next to a smoking table will work. [Yes, the game has completely changed in the highest amount of properties.  Although, some of the high limit rooms in Vegas and a few other areas are still close to the same as they have been, but the styles of play are predominately changed.  The old school camaraderie and really playing together and cleaning out the rack, is no where near what it was---say prior to 2002/2004-ish or so.]

[Extra Note: My biggest complaint in the change of the entire game from when almost all casinos had only high limit rooms with the big-original 14 seat players/3 dealer tables and a few mini bac's on the main floor to what it is today.  Is the way the players will not and almost never capitalize on streaks, chop and other very profitable patterns/trends and events with the bac shoe rather than always playing the cut and how most play today.  Which is, will not streak/will not stay chop, etc.  Always wagering for the cut and then when it cuts, they wager for the repeat.  To me, that is only 1 of the 4 events as an overall view of what the shoe produces; #1) Strong, #2 Weak-Chop, #3  Crazy and extremely erratic,  which is an extreme combination of #1 and #2, and then #4) Which is what they all believe in.  And, believe me when I tell you about the ultra camaraderie and the stopping another player we all knew from not wagering or getting him to wager with us, etc.  Now, all there really is is the #4 type of player with all the wagering for the cuts, the 'have to even out' within the shoe each and every time, wager against those winning and stacking it up, etc., etc. crowd.  And that crowed generally has that burping, farting, gross and terrible hygiene, chain smoking with ashes flying into other non smokers faces and drinks, etc., crowd.] 

Now it looks like a zoo.  Hardly anyone sits and food trays are all over the place.  While some of food smells good to eat, it's very unpleasant when you're trying to concentrate the game.  Then there's people smelling like they haven't shower in days.  Some smell like ointment, moth balls, urine and even poop.  You have people farting and burping without having the courtesy to walk away.  You also have the old annoying retire people that comes on the bus.  They act like kids.  There is not a single day that they don't fight.  Every time there is a long streak, a mob of them come and literally crush you at the table.  The pit boss had to stop the game for 15-20 to calm them down only to have them do it again.  It's hopeless to stop them. You can have your own private table, but you have to pay for it and the minimum that they make you play is outrageous. [Spot on most times on the main floor and non high-limit properties.  What is funny, years ago, say prior to 2000, 2004 at the latest, it was crowed at those same tables, just a complete different style of play, respect, hygiene and less of a 'zoo' as Babu said.]

For the longest time, the monkeys have caused me to lose.  I've tried online but it did not workout so I had to return to B&M once again.  I learn to deal with them.  Somehow today, everything managed to make me boil.  You have the usual monkeys following you everywhere, fighting and holding up the games.  You have the bad smell unintelligent dealers making all kinds of mistakes from dealing incorrectly, counting the points wrong, grabbing your money when you win and entering wrong results.  I had to take a 20 min break to cool myself down.  It's a little better on the weekends.  You have to working people come and just enough retiree to keep the game going. [I have mentioned this before I know, but prior to the early 2000's, dealers were never put on the baccarat tables in the high limit without at least 4-6 months on baccarat (mini) on the main floors.  Never was a bac dealer trained in a high limit room.  And the ones that were on mini bac on the main floors were watch over by a senior dealer and/or a floor manager for quite a while before being turned loose.  Period, no exceptions.  Now, it's a whole new story and picture regarding the inexperienced and haphazard dealers.]

P.S.  For those of you not familiar with high limit rooms in the larger gaming areas, there is no over the should betting, no touching or wagering with any one else, no over the should wagering, none of that stuff.  You can not even give another player money at the table as it would be counted against your buy in for the CTR and STR reports. 

In Southern California we used to have some great baccarat action and games also at the following properties, Pala, Pechanga, and Agua Caliente in Palm Springs.  Morongo just west of L.A. on I-10 was another great place, although they had no high limit room and about 6 bac tables on the main floor, all mini style, there off the street lmits were $2,000.00 a hand but there was some great people out numbered the jerks.  Just got too busy and too out of control and the dealers and floor people could care less.  I did hear they just built a real high limit room there, don't know anything about it these days.  Pala was up in the mountains and harder and longer to get to fro all the other places, so we had to call each other and arrange the games.  That fizzled out after a number of years.  Great property and had a good crowd and great employees there.  Pechanga was more on the main line  and just south of L.A. and I-10 and closer.  Good high limit room, probably still is.  Agua out in Palm Springs was rocking for years.  Had two tables in the high limit and they let anyone go to $5k and would raise it to $10k for player that played there only a few times and at least had several thousand buy in, etc.  We had some great players and times there.  Then they put several mini bac out on the main floor and that started to ruin it all.  The Asian hosts came from all over and brought in tons of the 'off the street' players types Babu was mentioning.  So the high limit started to die and then they lowered the high limit to $3,000.00 which most Southern California full service properties did (the Indian Places Versus the card rooms places that are casino 'Non Banking by State Law) type of places.  Agua was a great property, the shows and entertainment they had were always big names, still are I believe.  But all the bac action went to the main floor and they eventually would let their high limit room players dictate if the table was to be Midi or Mini style if there was only one high limit player present.  Other places in Southern California followed what Agua C was doing, I believe is the way it went.  Then after this happened, most of the regular high limit better players refused to play in Southern California and would strictly go to Vegas.  This was probably all around the 2009/2010 time. 

[8OR9]

If you are bothered by all the people, then best way to play is the new Stadium ( Also called Fusion) baccarat where each player has his own terminal to place bets with a live dealer ( no RNG ) ....Sands casino in Pennsylvania has about 120 terminals with         4 live bac dealers so you can change shoes at any time.........only bad thing is the smoke from all the chain smokers....you have to wear a mask or nose clips.....but at least you are kind of separated from the rest of the customers.

Also the Venetian/Pallazo in Vegas has the Stadium games.

The stadium/fusion baccarat, blackjack, roulette, craps and Sicbo terminals with live dealers are the wave of the future since the casino can save money on dealers........but the dealers get screwed because their tips go down.

[ADulay]

I agree.  I love stadium baccarat play.

Too bad we don't have it down here.

AD

[21 Aces]

I am staggered by the lack of players wanting to team up more formerly, but I haven't put too much effort on it.  If you have enough players getting together you can control or 'take over' tables without buy-in or bet minimums.

[owenslv]

Hi 21;

How many players do you need and where ?

Garry

[21 Aces]

Hi 21;

How many players do you need and where ?

Garry

I haven't disclosed, but I can say I have screwed this concept up a lot.  I have asked to directly play with some strikers that would have been the best ever, but not out of the picture.

Several times guy players (1 or more), I could tell there is just such a good vibe.  Of course you want to be around players that are as good or better than you:
- Setting the right tone and balanced view.
- What do you see here?  Blah, blah, blah.
- This is what I see here.  Blah, blah, blah.
- Bet or no bet/ a lot of danger/ not a lot of danger.
- ok, cool.


 
If you go play frequently at one spot, you should get to know frequently and I think just asking based on how things are going. Hosts tend to lead the way as some players are very loyal to them.

But the same goes for what ADulay and alrelax, etc. have mentioned.  If you can get with other players that are compatible in demeanor, and non-play factors it improves things a lot.  For example, I am not big in the squeezing cards camp right now, but I can not stand when there is a player who is drawing that out forever.  Or yeah, definitely no dirty manners/ gross players.

[Babu]

I am staggered by the lack of players wanting to team up more formerly, but I haven't put too much effort on it.  If you have enough players getting together you can control or 'take over' tables without buy-in or bet minimums.

What do you mean by take control?  In my area, unless you pay to have a private table, there is no stop people from betting over your shoulder.  The most annoying ones are the ones that don't even have enough money to bet the minimum and they are there crowding up the place. 

For example, I am not big in the squeezing cards camp right now, but I can not stand when there is a player who is drawing that out forever.  Or yeah, definitely no dirty manners/ gross players.

I'm not a fan of squeezing cards either.  That annoyed the stuff out of me today.  Some dealers are very good and remember me and some get the idea after one or two hands when I tell them to open up all the cards all the way.  There are some unintelligent ones that have to ask hand after hand.  Then you have the stupid people betting less than me but fights over squeezing.  When I get really annoy, I tell them that it doesn't cost much for them to buy 8 decks of card and they can squeeze every single time.  You see a lot of stupid people ONLY bet on Dragon and Panda that still wants to squeeze the damn card even when a natural is already shown.  I can see you trying to tie up but they don't even have tie bet. 

[alrelax]

Although things are a bit different in the Midwest here, than in Vegas, we do get some people squeezing cards that have no clue  what the heck they are factually doing!!!!  I wrote about a few off them elsewhere on the board.  Such as some that will turn a face card 2 or 3 sides peeling and the lines are on every single side.  I guess they believe it will go away once turned??  True schmucks to the millionth power.  God bless in the real high limit rooms in most places the schmucks are out on the main floor.  Funny how all this started when the limits were lowered and the internet picked up popularity.

[21 Aces]

- Where I play there are so many tables that often there are not going to be players behind, etc. unless the shoe gets hot.
- If the house is allowing it, I am all for bets below minimum as long as it is not causing trouble.

*** So much of the time the best of the best, many of which play very large, will mix with everyone and talk with most everyone so I take their humbleness as the lead on the way to act.  There are times where they will play high limit or play private, but often it is anywhere and everywhere.

The dealer is the point on helping create the right playing environment and we have all seen a dealer with a bad attitude kill a table.  They can call for management, chips, service, security, whatever.  They are the quarterback on the field and it can not be expected that the floor managers lead in over their watch all of the time.  Also, good dealers keep the pace of play, betting organized, dealing of cards to the right players, etc. all flowing smoothly.

Dealers should be watching if some guests are being pushy or annoying.  One table can have a lot of players even 2-3 deep if everyone works together.

[Babu]

- Where I play there are so many tables that often there are not going to be players behind, etc.
- If the house is allowing it, I am all for bets below minimum.
- So much of the time the best of the best, many of which play very large, will mix with everyone and talk with most everyone so I take their humbleness as the lead on the way to act.  There are times where they will play high limit or play private, but often it is anywhere and everywhere.

There is a lot of tables here in my area too.  Often not enough people to play the hands you don't want to play.  You often see one or two person sitting down at a table while there is a crowd of 20 people at one table.  Then they will run over and annoy the few people at the table alone.  I used to have that happen.  I would get up and go to another table, just to have them follow you.  So while they are there, it takes 5 or more minutes with all the loud, smelly and annoying people.  When they go away, you are force to play practically every hand.  So you can't play well with or without them.

Back before the 2008 crisis, practically everyone had money.  Everyone would have at least 600-1K.  Most will have 2K-5K and you will have others with 10K-200K.  I am in the 2K-5K.  I've done 30K a few times when I was winning.  I am still in that range and I don't like playing in the high limits.  I rely on non-fixed progression so a high minimum will not work for me.  I don't know if it's luck or if those guys are extremely amazing.  I just don't know how they manage to play an entire shoe with just a few free hands.  Although, I no longer see them anymore.  I knew a few guys playing in the high range and now they are broke.  I know if I play my approach, I will lose even sooner than them.