Never been to LV. Never really been to a big casino for that matter. I need to make a trip to AC before it disappears I guess. But haven't heard many good things from casinos desperate for losers. So perhaps a trip to Vegas would be better.
What does it take to be a high roller in Vegas?
What kind of buy in for a roped of VIP section where your every need is catered too?
What's it take to get a suite comped?
How much do you need to bet each hand? Can I play my normal BS where I don't bet every hand?
I'm a modest bettor but can splurge for the sake of entertainment and experience. Strong possibility I break even or only drop a few units, and a decent chance I win 10+ inflated units. Which would be great to fund my normal play. But I'm looking more for the experience of being uptown, with people that know how to behave in public and dress accordingly, and some staff that are professional in their ability to hide there disdain. Sit in a comfortable chair, order bizarre beverages, eat some great food, and sleep in a quiet room.
Rolex Watch, you are always talking about VIP rooms and having someone cater to your every need. I see that picture of stacks of pink chips (denomination unknown) and bands of cash I can't see clearly to know what they are. Doubling your buy in is impressive, but what's the bottom line for such prestigious treatment?
Anyone else enjoy preferential treatment? I'd like a piece of that pie one time.
Thanks in advance.
Oh, my Goodness, HBS....I had you pegged as a much smarter man than the fella that wrote that utter trash. This post is so misguided on so many levels, and the mindset enumerated therein is that of a complete amateur. Shame, really......
Gr8,
I'm really surprised at you. There are two things I like about you.
The first is that never have I seen you solicit anyone for money. Not ever have I seen John post something of yours in a retort that was a solicitation for cash for a system or selection. And John seems to be on target with a huge archive of your posts. Much of what you type can be read as a sales pitch. But the only thing you are selling is your ability to trend and win money flat betting. Which is a harmless claim since you never offer your bet selection to gamblers desperate to win money back from a casino. I accept it for what it is and that's my choice. As you've said many times nothing can be proven on and internet forum. So it's pointless to exhaust energy on that endeavor.
And secondly, you never attack anyone. There is no malice in you or any of your posts. No hate or disrespect. You may come off at times as a professor talking down to his students with an air of superiority, but eh, it isn't really insulting or offensive. Most of it is encouragement and benign advice. Except of course, all of your banter with John. Which I am not privy to what transpired between you two, so cannot and care not who is right or wrong or whatever. I am aware of it though, anyone that has ever lurked at a gambling forum the two of you both belong to has read plenty of your back and forth accusations. I dismiss it, I don't consider it a black mark against your character.
I have never claimed to be a professional gambler or Bac player. I have never claimed to have won more money than I have lost gambling. I have generated and continue to generate my income outside of the casino. The money I gamble with means nothing to me. That isn't to say I'm independently wealthy, just that I don't need my gambling funds. It's entertainment, relaxation, fun, get out of the house money. I could gamble with larger units but I'm not trying to impress anyone. I could pile it up and set it on fire. I am not desperate to generate money from a casino.
What I asked are simply questions. The answers to which offer me information. Knowledge from the horses mouth itself. Not bullshite from a sales pitch, promotional garbage from a website, or complete nonsense from people trying to be impressive at the casino.
I like my local casinos, but I do enjoy traveling. And if I'm going to invest my time traveling to a casino I'm not interested in tolerating poor behavior, stupidly dressed people and less than mediocre service. I get that here, and I tolerate it because I choose to bet at the bottom. And there really is no real VIP treatment available. Oh, they pretend at it. There are some big spenders/losers. But I know the facilities are laughable and the food of a lesser quality than what I eat at home.
So, GR8, your post is empty of any value, nothing more than a projection of what you want me to be. What compelled you to engage me in a public admonishment? Was that for my own good? Or was it to make you look and feel better from superior position of experience? The leading authority on all things gambling. I'm not looking drag you through the mud here, but I am less than pleased for you to take a position and call me an amateur and project upon me an ill perceived mindset. You know neither my mind, my motivations nor my competence ( or lack thereof ) at the tables.
To me it seems out of character for you to be insulting without provocation. I didn't expect you to respond to this at all. But if you did I would expect that you would have some 'real' information. I know you aren't renting a car driving several hours, staying at a hotel two nights and eating 6 meals so you can drive home with 12 $25 units. Maybe 12 $100 units to cover all that overhead. Perhaps larger to get your meals and room comped. I dunno. I'm not prying. I was asking anyone willing to answer. And John in particular, only because he outright talks about it and has a picture of a pile of cash and chips, so I didn't think I'd be crossing a line there.
Rolex,
26k to 30k USD is an impressive pile of cash. Your chips are quite busy in colors and design. Casinos I frequent are quite a bit blander as you probably well know. And my pinks are $500. I can't believe each bag of cash is only $5000 USD. You paper money must be thick. I can band 10k in $100 bills and it would be half the size or less of one of those 5k bags you got there. I appreciate you blowing that up for me.
I do not think my questions were BS, nor was I attempting to draw you into some BS. Unless you are referring to a conflict between you and GR8 about unit sizes.
Surely if you are willing to show a picture of such a sum, it's not forward of me to ask, NOT what you bet, but what it takes to be separated from the riff raff in a VIP area. And are you expected to bet every hand? I'm sure there are a lot of posers. My play is always serious regardless of how much the value of the chips mean to me.
I recently read a post by Frank Scobelite about how he was in a high roller room, maybe $500 a hand, but was doodling on his bac card wasting time trying to get comped at a higher paced game he was not only intentionally slowing down, but not playing seriously. Delaying the game because he was uncomfortable losing that kind of cash. Or lacking confidence in his play.
I'm not interested in running a scam on a casino. I'm looking for some 'real' information from people who actually play at a higher level.
Excuse gr8 he is hurting, the BS comment was aimed at him.
UK Banks usually "bag" up £50 notes 50 at a time, hence the two and half large per bag, these notes are bigger (not thicker) than your £20, £10 and £5 denominations.
Regarding VIP play, the table minimums everywhere I've been except Sydney is $100, The sovereign room at Star City was $300 minimum. $300 minimum using a negative progression, eh no thanks.
I dislike VIP rooms and generally try to avoid them, I go there to eat and maybe drink after I've finished playing.
I despises VIP area's because the staff are more false and two-faced. The players usually care less if they win or lose, some places are simply too sterile, walk in and it feels like a thousand eyes are on you. Also I generally prefer a certain way in terms of MM along with a certain ratio between bet sizes, I can't achieve this with a $100 minimum game (I play a rather unique string approach).
Here is a recent example, cock-suck3r of a pit-boss was praising the recent Indonesian execution of two if the Australian Bali 9 drug smugglers. What the pr1ck didn't want to admit, was a hell of a lot of money going through Sky City Auckland is Chinese drug money, so if governments suddenly shot all drug smugglers, then the turn over at Sky City would drastically plummet. As every few months in the local press are stories of another big Asian drug bust and bang on cue, the suspects were known to be using the VIP room as their office, gambling huge sums of monies and I bet the said pit-boss was all over them, calling them Sir or Mr this and that.
To gain VIP status, I suppose it all depends what country your in. Get VIP in any casino in Oz and it will be reciprocated in all other casinos in the same country. Flash same card overseas and they usually give you an overseas players card so you can access VIP areas and take in friends, eat & drink for free.
Honestly mate it's all bu11shit, you take what you can when you can, pit-staff and hosts are all bottom feeders, with their bu11shit fake smiles and cr@p. Just get ahead by even a few grand and watch their demeanour change, they are all basically $%$£ "$%^& no matter what country you play in. So yes while I can enter such areas, I tend to avoid playing in them, unless it becomes necessary..
Well, that's pretty much the same impression I've gotten from what I can gather from the internet.
I think casinos draw in people who enjoy the misery and misfortune of others. I think they turn regular people into miscreants that take pleasure in the misfortune of others. Seems to be a common human trait to "kick the dog" to feel better about oneself when having a bad day. Not that everyone succumbs to that type of behavior, but everyone has lost their temper at least once and lashed out at someone or something in frustration. Which alleviated their mood a bit even if it was against their will to engage in such behavior.
I would like a vacation away from inappropriately dressed people that don't know how to behave in public or treat others with common courtesy and respect. People that don't get angry at the cards, the dealer or the casino for losing. Craps players can be a ignorant superstitious surly lot and I find it tiresome. I thought that maybe there would be a level of casino staff and bettors both professional enough and nonchalant enough not to be so uptight about the money. Just relax and let the house edge do its work. But alas it seems like at every level of play it is thinly veiled disdain coupled with an attitude that casino employees are winners and bettors are losers.
Infuriates me to no end, to have to tolerate some ignorant fool who adopts the position of the casino. Who think that now they themselves are beating you at the table, and that since they are privy to some inside information, the rest of us are idiots. When in fact they were equally ignorant until someone else explained it to them. Nothing at all that they could have figured out for themselves, but now act as if they knew all along. Oh how I hate people.
I put money in an entertainment fund, which I chose to be gambling. And every year built an equal size fund for entertainment. Not always for gambling, though I intended to replenish my gambling fund if I thought it was worthwhile. I still have 2/3 of that original bankroll. And an entertainment account that keeps building up funds. I don't have any hobbies, I'm not in debt, I live a modest lifestyle, bored as hell, looking for a place to be spoiled for a week. Not on a ship, not in a place devoid of comforts, not anywhere dangerous. I'm not interested in laying around drinking all day ( I don't drink much at all ) or eating all day. Not much on just taking in the sights, besides how long does it take to look at something? not very. I thought maybe a first class flight to LV and some VIP treatment would be a good idea. But no, not if it's going to be the same attitude of hurry up and lose. I can just fly there and play my normal low limits and pay for whatever I want to do. Or skip it altogether since I know its going to be jam packed full of unintelligent tourists and smoke.
I'll have to think of something else to do. Thanks for the info.
Johno you are a true Cynic. Not unfounded. I'm only halfway there. You're the real thing - a man on a mission.
HBC, I'm gonna guess from your moniker and statements that you're down in Biloxi or Tunica, or both. No need to respond, I'm not prying, just saying.
MoSun, not Foxwoods so much, I find very civil and polite. Therte's a few dealers that are out to get you but most are rooting for you. The pit critters, if they're worried about how much $ your winning, don't show it. Many will tell you to NOT give it back and congratulate you on a win. It seems they're all about service. For the most part a friendly place. They even have smoke free tables now. They make no bones about slow play. Rarely do I see a dealer push the hands. In fact, just the opposite. You'll think you're going to grow old before some of these Bacc games finish!
They are getting more and more good entertainment and the restaurants and shops and golf are great. From a visitors perspective there is no place local to go though. You can rent a car and visit great places around the state.
Not a bad trip if you want a vacation and some gambling.
J (No, nobody is paying me to say this.)
Jimske,
My moniker is just a play on words. But you are not far off with my location. I have reason to travel to the northeast. So, I may sidestep it to Mosun if I decide to head that way.
I looked up some of their scheduled entertainment and I can enjoy some of that. I don't mind slow play nearly as much as I dislike being rushed.
Smoke free tables sound great. I'm not one of those overly sensitive to smoke people. But being surrounded by lit cigs isn't pleasant. Plus, people can be so oblivious to their inconsideration of smoke if not outright intentionally being passive aggressive with it. And I'm not one to endure much passive aggression. But in a place like a casino, instant ejection (of me) I'm sure.
Good food is one of the best pleasures in life imo. Golf on the other hand not so much. But I know I'm the minority in that regard.
thanks for the tip.
I got the weird idea that Vegas hugely comped players are sure losers.
With some notable but very very rare exceptions, of course.
as.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on June 16, 2015, 08:00:50 PM
Jimske,
My moniker is just a play on words. But you are not far off with my location. I have reason to travel to the northeast. So, I may sidestep it to Mosun if I decide to head that way.
I looked up some of their scheduled entertainment and I can enjoy some of that. I don't mind slow play nearly as much as I dislike being rushed.
Smoke free tables sound great. I'm not one of those overly sensitive to smoke people. But being surrounded by lit cigs isn't pleasant. Plus, people can be so oblivious to their inconsideration of smoke if not outright intentionally being passive aggressive with it. And I'm not one to endure much passive aggression. But in a place like a casino, instant ejection (of me) I'm sure.
Good food is one of the best pleasures in life imo. Golf on the other hand not so much. But I know I'm the minority in that regard.
thanks for the tip.
Well, be sure to give me a heads up if you are up this way!
Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 18, 2015, 09:07:49 PM
I got the weird idea that Vegas hugely comped players are sure losers.
With some notable but very very rare exceptions, of course.
as
Why do you say that? Casinos will comp a winning player to make sure he/she keeps coming back. If they begin to get ahead of the EV somehow they will be shocked and wonder if the person is cheating but they're not going to let you go some other place and lose that money back.
Most are losers so casino not too worried.
Quote from: Jimske on June 18, 2015, 09:18:11 PM
Why do you say that? Casinos will comp a winning player to make sure he/she keeps coming back. If they begin to get ahead of the EV somehow they will be shocked and wonder if the person is cheating but they're not going to let you go some other place and lose that money back.
Most are losers so casino not too worried.
That's true, Jim, anyway casinos are quite worried about high stakes players wagering few hands per shoe, regardless of their standard bet.
Betting few hands won't give the HS player substantial comps and in most instances just one bet ahead will cover the most bold expenses, so the idea should be to play few hands letting the houses sweating.
After all, shows, high end dinners, hotel suites and long haul airfares in business class aren't so unapprochable for a HS player.
as.
Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 19, 2015, 01:50:30 AM
That's true, Jim, anyway casinos are quite worried about high stakes players wagering few hands per shoe, regardless of their standard bet.
Betting few hands won't give the HS player substantial comps and in most instances just one bet ahead will cover the most bold expenses, so the idea should be to play few hands letting the houses sweating.
After all, shows, high end dinners, hotel suites and long haul airfares in business class aren't so unapprochable for a HS player.
as.
John, I'm not sure what you mean by "unapprochable for a HS player." I know English is your second language and it's very good for the most part but some of your phraseology confuses me. Can you explain that?
Are you maintaining that the HS player has a better chance of winning due to making less bets?
It seems to me that the only worry the casino may have over one person making huge HS bets is how that particular bet stacks up against the total bets placed in the casino. So in theory a few huge bets won could upset the short term house profit. But isn't that part of what max bets are for?
J
Quote from: Jimske on June 19, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
John, I'm not sure what you mean by "unapprochable for a HS player." I know English is your second language and it's very good for the most part but some of your phraseology confuses me. Can you explain that?
Are you maintaining that the HS player has a better chance of winning due to making less bets?
It seems to me that the only worry the casino may have over one person making huge HS bets is how that particular bet stacks up against the total bets placed in the casino. So in theory a few huge bets won could upset the short term house profit. But isn't that part of what max bets are for?
J
Hi Jim!
I just wanted to say that many HS players aren't so interested to be comped and some very HS players live in Vegas.
Imo, yes, less bets = better chance of winning.
as.
Quote from: AsymBacGuy on June 19, 2015, 04:00:17 PM
Hi Jim!
Imo, yes, less bets = better chance of winning.
as.
Still having trouble wrapping my head around this, John. Lots of players say this. Okay there seems to be a correlation but cause and effect? I'd like to understand the reason less bets increase our odds of winning.
Doesn't the answer have to be that some condition exists that produces more wins than another condition?
J
Quote from: Jimske on June 22, 2015, 04:06:05 PM
Still having trouble wrapping my head around this, John. Lots of players say this. Okay there seems to be a correlation but cause and effect? I'd like to understand the reason less bets increase our odds of winning.
Doesn't the answer have to be that some condition exists that produces more wins than another condition?
J
The answer should be that baccarat won't produce perfect 50/50 outcomes, expecially on some "complex" derived situations.
We are mostly playing an
almost 50/50 game, so the more we are betting the higher will be the probability to sink into the "random" world, a world where we cannot have any valuable hint besides the obvious short term positive variance.
Of course, limiting our betting without having properly assessed what happened in the previous spots won't make the job.
For example, always betting the 5th, 14th or 45th hand hoping to get a RTM effect or something like that.
Many shoes aren't going to produce the most expected results and I'm not going to try to stop such course, let alone trying to follow this unexpected line. I simply abandon to bet.
Such shoes, imo, are counterbalancing the ones giving the "edge" on some more expected distributions.
Giving a vulgar example, it won't exist in the history of baccarat a shoe forming a series of only streaks. You won't find one. (at roulette you'll get many 70 hands sequence producing only streaks on certain 50/50 chances)
However, you'll get many shoes not showing a 3+ streak, expecially on P side. (a very very rare finding at roulette).
And so on about more intricated dispositions.
We shouldn't forget that at baccarat there are some key cards erasing or at least lowering the asym factor and that the game is mainly operated by a slight zigzag factor (due to card distribution).
Imo, we should let the time to have such factors operating at a degree capable to either invert the house edge or at least to get very controlled opposite scenarios. That means reducing a lot our betting, imo.
If for example we could find a -5/0/+5 steady gap, we virtually cannot lose.
as.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on June 13, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
Never been to LV. Never really been to a big casino for that matter. I need to make a trip to AC before it disappears I guess. But haven't heard many good things from casinos desperate for losers. So perhaps a trip to Vegas would be better.
What does it take to be a high roller in Vegas?
What kind of buy in for a roped of VIP section where your every need is catered too?
What's it take to get a suite comped?
How much do you need to bet each hand? Can I play my normal BS where I don't bet every hand?
Well as some of you know and some of you don't know, I have pretty much gambled since the Playboy Casino opened in Atlantic City. I have experience at many properties in AC, South Florida, Connecticut, Vegas and Southern California among other places. I had numerous pictures posted on this site and took them down because of the pouring out by a few members how this site is supposedly only for the analytical and methodical ends of gambling and not the general aspect.
I have played baccarat and black jack and other games consistently for about 30 years. In Vegas the regular properties have been Bellagio, Mirage, Wynn, Planet Ho, RIO, Golden Nugget, CP and Red Rock. Usually played only in their high limit rooms.
Your questions can not be answered easily and would most certainly differ from property to property and chain to chain. A 'high roller' or a VIP who plays at the Golden Nugget may not be one at The Bellagio or at Caesar's Palace.
The following factors are taking into consideration when determining who gets what and how much comp and what level they receive.
Hosts (floor-desk-on duty-executive-senior vice presidents) or outside independent hosts
Weekend, Holiday, Weekdays
Have you played there before
Front Money Deposit
Credit Line pre-approved
There are other factors. But those are the main ones that will determine how much of what you receive. In Vegas pretty much you have the $10k to $25k/$50k/$100k/$250k/and the $500k to $1M/ and the whales above those crowds. If you take a mean average of a high roller, meaning full comp (RFB&I) with suites (not villas, but 1 and 2 bedroom top floor suites) having a history with a property, a solid $50k to $100k front money deposit or established credit line, playing 4 plus hours per day at average wagers of well over $500.00 a hand. Full comp means, suites, limos, airfare reimbursement, food, bottles and room set-ups (snacks, bottles, food, misc.).
Table games generally are $100.00 and up depending on the property in their high limit rooms, but then again, that depends on what night of the week it is and if it's a holiday or not, etc. High limit table min's are usually $100/$300/$500 or $1,000 up to $15k/$20k/$25k per hand. This is in the main part of the high limit room. Then there are the private saloons in the rear of the bigger properties high limit rooms, etc.
When you say, 'every need is catered to' is very subjective and again, depends on the amount the player has on deposit or credit line or his celebrity status and so on.
$26k to $30k at most Vegas properties is not a high roller. A consistent $50k to $100k bank roll brought in each time, average wagers of $3k and up a hand and hours of play is pretty common at most of the larger properties.
As far as the other comments about losers get more and winners they won't let walk away because of comps, etc. It goes like this: Playing hours gets you the comps no matter what level you are at. Larger wagers and larger bankrolls get you more, of course. But someone that wagers a few hands an hour no matter the bank roll won't get as much as those wagering a regular flow of hands. You are really not comp'ed on if you win or lose. Sure if you win or lose very large sums quickly there might be some consideration with an immediate request. But on an overall basis, it is the hours you are gambling at whatever the average wager you are making and the speed of the game and the house advantage computed.
General Rule of the Thumb:
$25k to $50k B.R., off strip or down town property gets you a nice suite and nice meals, limo and a few other things. That is with an average wager well over $300 a hand.
$50k to $100k B.R., mid strip large property with an average wager over $750 a hand gets the same thing, nice suites, food, limo, some gift shop comps, etc.
Higher play and longer hours you start talking about loss rebates, promo chips, airfare reimbursements for companions, and hard comp (off property pay outs Vs. soft comp 'on property') coming into play.
When you play at a property respectively and have a senior executive host (not a floor host or an on-duty desk host) and have average wagering at over $2,500.00 a hand, you fall into a high roller type of classification if it means anything.
More than anything is the actual relationship the player has/maintains with his host. That is the single biggest avenue to what a player will or will not get in the way of treatment. As well, it also depends at what level that host is at with his employer as to what he can or cannot give a player.
Like I said, it is not easily answered across the board for all properties, there are way too many variables to plug into before someone can tell you what or what you might not get from a property.
Can't think about a better reply.
as.
alrelax,
I appreciate your time composing such a comprehensive response. I see where my questions were too vague for any easy answer, and I thank you for the wealth of information you provided. It is exactly the information I was looking for.
A simple 'thank you ' seems inadequate for what you provided. You covered every angle, I cannot honestly think of anything else to ask. It's... well it's like I already said " exactly the information I was looking for"
It truly is greatly appreciated on my part.
HBS
In addition, there are other factors and the biggest one as I mentioned in my initial response is that of one's host. Two different hosts can comp two different players playing the exact same amounts (avg wager and game) different suites and misc. This is because hosts operate on different plateaus. Hosts have budgets as well as host departments have budgets to play with. It may also be that one player brings other players or has many long time players/family playing under that host. It may also be the a host is near the end of his quarter and trying to use up a budget or doesn't have a budget and might not want to go the extra mile for a new player to overly take care of him and properly develop the player, etc. There are many reasons one player gets more than another when players are about the same ratings/averages.
Don't get sucked in, don't play for the comps. If you are truly playing large and playing for the gambling, take what you can get don't seek it out and don't play over your bank roll to get something. Most times you could have just paid for it and probably came out ahead in the long run.
I don't play games and I don't engage in childish banter and spoofing and all that stuff, period. I was on here long before Wizard of Vegas. Seems full time I-net people know all the tricks and trades of message board games. As always, if you don't enjoy reading something a member says/posts you don't have to read it, you can easily block them with a stroke of a key. Thanks.
alrelax thanks for a good read about high rollers and comp ...
Cheers
I visited Vegas in 1977 , I trip I now look back on with appreciation. My memories of Vegas is of old Las Vegas, The Trop. went to a show there , The
Dunes I still have a match book from The Dunes, The Sands, Stardust, C's Palace was really something different in its day. Downtown, Four Queens,
Golden Nugget, etc. There were still open vast spaces and parking lots between casinos on the strip. I remember seeing Gabe Kaplan in the Stardust back
when he had the fro hair style being ushered around the craps area by two or three big guys in suits. I think he was performing there as well. I'm not sure
if I want to go back to Vegas. There's no way to top these memories.
Yep! The Desert Inn and the Sands. Spent lots of time at those. Before The Wynn and The Venetian. The old Tropicana, C.P. and The Aladdin before Planet Ho. I have a huge 4 X 5 foot custom framed shadow box of many Desert Inn items from the 80's and the 90's, the pics used to be posted on here--maybe you seen them. Great memories of a great time in Vegas.