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[chulan]

Hi all I am new to this forum. I am from South East Asia and I have been into online baccarat betting for slightly over two years, spending ranging from half an hour up to half day of playing session daily. I am too embarrassed to state that I have lost quite a fortune, twice as much of my annual income.

I am devastated and remorseful right now. I wish to know whether baccarat is a truely negative expectancy game that is unbeatable?

I learnt Martingale does not work the hard way first few months. Later on I adopt a modified Martingale method which I thought was effective. My betting system is as follows:

1) Start betting the opppsite when a BB or PP streak is observed.
2) If win, bet the opposite  only if another BB or PP streak is observed.
3) If lose, chase the lose by betting the same side as per last bet raising the stake as per Martingale or less agressive progression.
4) If still losing after the three/four consecutive bet, bet the opposite. So, if the streak continues, you recoup the loss and win small units; if the streak ends, you lose. Lose is a lose but still not as disastrous as if I bet as Martingale style and chasing loss non-stop in a long streak.

I found that it does relatively as you will only lose when you are betting on a BBBBB/PPPPP or BBBBBB/PPPPPP, depends on how many opposite bet to previous winning side you make before switching side.

With a bankroll of 1500 units ( local currency), I start my bet usually on 10, sometimes higher or lower. Usually I will play at higher stake or bet randomly when I accumulating winnings. Daily winnings of 200/300 are quite attainable though I can go up to 400-600.

However my problem is whenever I face a burst, like losing to a BBBBBB/PPPPPPP sequence streak, I will become nervous. Winnings of 500 down to 100 is still a win and I should call it a day and walk away easily as I am betting online, however very often I become very irrational and will randomly bet at high stake of 100,200 up to 500 of maximum bet to recoup loss. Needless to say, I always went into the situation that I have gaining daily profits of average 200-300 daily for ten days up to two weeks and suddenly not only lost all those winnings and lost my bankroll of 2000-3000 in a day or two or three. The loss of my previous winnings have made me irrational.

So I am seeking advices from here whether there is a better system ( lower risk ) to make an average profit of 75-100 daily for at least half year to a year to recoup my loss. Thinking of my loss made me hate my life. I will only bet small stake for fun afterwards if can gain back around 20k. My entire loss is more than 100k.

On a sidenote, is there anyone here who has been playing baccarat for years and is still banking winnings instead of losing. How much on average daily profit you can make in what size of bankroll and bet size? Those who play daily, how much win day / lose day are you recording in a period of 10 days/1 months/50 days/100 days and so on?

Sorry for my bad grammar as English is not my first language and I was typing with a phone.

I know this is a public forum and everyone is free to criticize or advice or comment. Thank you and sorry for the long post.

[spartakookie]

Hi Chulan,

Your Bankroll probably is only 150 units since u play 10 units as  your base bet. You prob should try a few other money mgt. I used star system, 7 point series usually and i would recommend you to use 7 point series to play. It win slow but it allows you to hang on when u r in a bad streak. I would recommend at least 400 units as  your bankroll to be sustainable. As most people played with a small bankroll which does not help you to ride out. You see casino basically has unlimitable bankroll. 400 units should allow you to use progression like 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. Bet selection wise i recommend you to play on second hole (2s). You should bet 2s if the previous 2nd hole is 2s not 1s and the same on the 1s if the previous 2nd hole does not have 2s. Do not stay at one table if you encountered two straight losess. Keep jumping on tables. Note you should keep betting on same table if you are winning till you lose. The reason is to stay away from cluster losses like 2s,1s,2s,1s,2s,1s (pp,b,pp,b,pp,b) and take advantage of the winning clusters (2s,2s,2s,2s,2s,2s) or (1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s). Rem only up a unit if you lose like 5 out of 7 (-3 units) and revert down a unit if you get a lower accumlated losses than before or a overall win. Do not expect a fast win. A fast win equal a fast loss. Results are two mirrored.

[Jimske]

Hi all I am new to this forum. I am from South East Asia and I have been into online baccarat betting for slightly over two years, spending ranging from half an hour up to half day of playing session daily. I am too embarrassed to state that I have lost quite a fortune, twice as much of my annual income.

I am devastated and remorseful right now. I wish to know whether baccarat is a truely negative expectancy game that is unbeatable?

Sorry for your loss.  First recognize that you lost so much because you are/were an out of control gambler who probably fell in love with the game and got caught up in the Adrenalin and action of gambling.  Sorry to say that but unless you understand that you got to decide whether "you want to play a game or win money" you will not conquer this game which is absolutely a negative expectation game but is beatable long term.

Hi Chulan,

Your Bankroll probably is only 150 units since u play 10 units as  your base bet. You prob should try a few other money mgt. I used star system, 7 point series usually and i would recommend you to use 7 point series to play. It win slow but it allows you to hang on when u r in a bad streak. I would recommend at least 400 units as  your bankroll to be sustainable. As most people played with a small bankroll which does not help you to ride out. You see casino basically has unlimitable bankroll. 400 units should allow you to use progression like 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10.

IMO this is good basic advice except understand that no progression will change the negative expectation to the positive expectation. You will need a large bankroll to undertake deep progressions such as Star and there are some progressions that are certainly better than others.  You will have to study some and make a decision which, if any, are your style.  But in the end winning with any of these will be a matter of random luck without some subjective skill honed through experience.

Bet selection wise i recommend you to play on second hole (2s). You should bet 2s if the previous 2nd hole is 2s not 1s and the same on the 1s if the previous 2nd hole does not have 2s. Do not stay at one table if you encountered two straight losess. Keep jumping on tables. Note you should keep betting on same table if you are winning till you lose. The reason is to stay away from cluster losses like 2s,1s,2s,1s,2s,1s (pp,b,pp,b,pp,b) and take advantage of the winning clusters (2s,2s,2s,2s,2s,2s) or (1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s).

I must disagree with the above.  There is no magic or advantage in choosing this kind of bet placement chasing the "chops."  It's a 50/50 game and the repeats or runs will even out the short bursts.  This doesn't mean you can't build a placement around these decisions.  Everybody needs structure but don't make the mistake that chasing these will somehow give you an advantage.

Rem only up a unit if you lose like 5 out of 7 (-3 units) and revert down a unit if you get a lower accumlated losses than before or a overall win. Do not expect a fast win. A fast win equal a fast loss. Results are two mirrored.

Well said.  You got to decide whether you want to go after the big kill or slow grind.  Notice most players go after the big kill.  It has to do with bet spread.  Regardless of your base bet ($10 or $100) if you want the big kill then you will be forced to, at some point when losing make the bigger and bigger bet.  You need a big bankroll and a strong stomach for this.  Star, progressive parlay, etc.  "A fast win equal a fast loss."  Write that down on the top of your card before you play!  Truer words have never been spoken.

If you keep your spreads tight and have stop losses and wins it will be much easier but no guarantee to recoup from some bad losses.  Know YOUR game.  Know where and why to bet and what are the general outside limitations.  Here is an example from yesterday where I won 36 base units in about 100 bets placed in three shoes.  5, 12, 29.  The 29 is VERY RARE for me.  I just kept going until my MM said stop and I quit.  The 12 unit win is just about my high limit in a shoe.  Once I get around 10 units I'm thinking as soon as I lose 2 of 3 or maybe 3 IAR I am out.  Reason is because I know from graphing my game that I generally don't get much higher than this so I hit 15 and then left at 12.  The 5 is very typical.  I could lose 5 too.  But if a shoe is going nowhere (up or down) with small win/losses I am looking for an exit and will hope to get out with even a measly 1 unit win.

In those games my max bet was 2 units and I happen to get 2 good conforming shoes to MY BET SELECTION.  But in general my max bet is about 4 units, rarely going higher and actually seldom going that high.

Hope that helps.

J

[AsymBacGuy]

I quote the previous posts about the money management.

About the betting selection I suggest to follow the long term data results any bac game in the universe will produce:

P1>P2>P3>P4 and so on, so there's no point to bet toward long P series.

B1<B2<B3 and so on up to a point, so there's no point to try to cut the B doubles, for example.

Also, choosing a BB or PP starting betting point IMO doesn't lead to any particular advantage, other than some intricate rare circumstances leading to a very small edge.

Finally, during any session don't forget the "point of no return" concept. The more you play the more you slide into the PONR no matter how large will be your bets.

The game is conceived as a slow but inesorable fall into the mathematical negative field and even when getting an advantage things could come out very harsh.
It's better to jump one, two or three step than trying to climb a mountain. And the more you play the higher will be such mountain. 

I perfectly know what you mean about losing control. Such thing happens more frequently when you want to be ahead or to broke even per every single session.
Imo, it's the hugest mistake every gambler could make. The worst.

as.       

[jsintl]

Hi Chulan,

Your Bankroll probably is only 150 units since u play 10 units as  your base bet. You prob should try a few other money mgt. I used star system, 7 point series usually and i would recommend you to use 7 point series to play. It win slow but it allows you to hang on when u r in a bad streak. I would recommend at least 400 units as  your bankroll to be sustainable. As most people played with a small bankroll which does not help you to ride out. You see casino basically has unlimitable bankroll. 400 units should allow you to use progression like 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. Bet selection wise i recommend you to play on second hole (2s). You should bet 2s if the previous 2nd hole is 2s not 1s and the same on the 1s if the previous 2nd hole does not have 2s. Do not stay at one table if you encountered two straight losess. Keep jumping on tables. Note you should keep betting on same table if you are winning till you lose. The reason is to stay away from cluster losses like 2s,1s,2s,1s,2s,1s (pp,b,pp,b,pp,b) and take advantage of the winning clusters (2s,2s,2s,2s,2s,2s) or (1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s,1s). Rem only up a unit if you lose like 5 out of 7 (-3 units) and revert down a unit if you get a lower accumlated losses than before or a overall win. Do not expect a fast win. A fast win equal a fast loss. Results are two mirrored.

This is interesting.  Can you clarify further your betting progression?  Do you flat bet for 7 times then up one unit if your score is -3 units or higher.  I'm looking for a conservative way of playing.  Thanks.

[spartakookie]

Hi jsintl,

I bet 1 unit for 7 times ( 7 times as one series). If the overall is -3 ( 5 loss vs 2 wins), i will increase one more unit for next series. I will revert back if i win. eg (5wins on this series will gove me 10-4 = 6 units). overall i win 3 units (6-3). One impt point to take note is that i always reduce one unit after a series of 5 wins (6 wins vs 1 loss)  and above. Ex. 1st series is -7, 2nd series is -14, and 3rd series i win 15 units (6X3-3), my overall is still -21 + 15 = -6. My next series (4th) will be 2 units each.

The reason i jump table is the same reason you don't invest all your money in one basket. This is called risk diversion. The risk of getting caught on a big losing streak is much reduced. Alot of people can said the prob is still 48% and results should be same as u bet one table but i would beg the difference. It is up to you to decide what knowledge u want to take.

I played in singapore week in and week out and this method has been doing good for me. My highest unit i ever bet till now is 5 per bet. My average profit is about 40 units per session which take me about 4-6 hours. sometimes i encountered  a bad ride at the end of my last hour like losing on 2nd stage ( 2units), i just call it a day and come back the next session and continue the progression. It usually takes me 1.5 to 2 months to gain 400 units. I haven't busted this 400 units bankroll yet and i already won over 30 times of my bankroll through my 4 years of playing. I used this method for playing sports betting too.

cheers,
spartakookie

[WorldBaccaratKing]

Hi jsintl,

I bet 1 unit for 7 times ( 7 times as one series). If the overall is -3 ( 5 loss vs 2 wins), i will increase one more unit for next series. I will revert back if i win. eg (5wins on this series will gove me 10-4 = 6 units). overall i win 3 units (6-3). One impt point to take note is that i always reduce one unit after a series of 5 wins (6 wins vs 1 loss)  and above. Ex. 1st series is -7, 2nd series is -14, and 3rd series i win 15 units (6X3-3), my overall is still -21 + 15 = -6. My next series (4th) will be 2 units each.

The reason i jump table is the same reason you don't invest all your money in one basket. This is called risk diversion. The risk of getting caught on a big losing streak is much reduced. Alot of people can said the prob is still 48% and results should be same as u bet one table but i would beg the difference. It is up to you to decide what knowledge u want to take.

I played in singapore week in and week out and this method has been doing good for me. My highest unit i ever bet till now is 5 per bet. My average profit is about 40 units per session which take me about 4-6 hours. sometimes i encountered  a bad ride at the end of my last hour like losing on 2nd stage ( 2units), i just call it a day and come back the next session and continue the progression. It usually takes me 1.5 to 2 months to gain 400 units. I haven't busted this 400 units bankroll yet and i already won over 30 times of my bankroll through my 4 years of playing. I used this method for playing sports betting too.

cheers,
spartakookie

Can you elaborate how you do this on sports?

[spartakookie]

Hi WBK,

I bet usually on even goals. A friend of mine has been betting that for a very long time. From his belief, even goals has a slight advantage over odd goalls. You can have home winning by odd/even goal and the same applies to away team but draw is 100% even. So basically you have 5 possible outcome of one match. 3 even and 2 odd. The odd has a smaller advantage against even goal for either side winning. But due to the draw, the even still will prevail over odd in long run. I don't use 1-2-3-4-5 on this sport betting. I used 1- 2.2- 3.5- 4.8 - 6.4 - 9.5 , recommended by my friend. I usually goes to 2nd stage for 70-80% of the time, been to 5th stage once. You can play handicap. Take (eat) as winning rate is higher in long run.

Hope you understand.

Cheers,
spartakookie

[ice789]

example ?

[james]

Hi spartacookie,

Thanks for posting your money management. You bet 1 unit 7 times. If the overall is -3 (5L vs 2W), you increase your bet to 2 units. If you win the first 2 bets, you are now -3+2+2=1 unit. Some people will reduce the bet to 1 unit, since you are +1 unit and start all over with 1 unit for the next 7 bets.  But in your method of play, you continue to play with 2 units for the next 5 bets. If you win the next 5 bets with 2 units, your win will be 1+5*2=11 units. If you lose the next 5 bets, your net will be 1-10=-9 units and you will increase your bet to 3 units. Bankroll of 400 units is required for your aggressive style of betting.

What is the maximum bet you have made so far and the maximum drawdown? Have you lost your 400 units ever?

[spartakookie]

Hi James,

I didn't really keep record on the highest max bet i need to bet as it always fall into my playable range. I prob played to 7 units per bet on 3-5 times throughout the 4 years. most of them are in 1-4 range.

cheers,
SK