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[Rolex-Watch]

There is a reason for asking this question, I will post a link after I received some responses.

Take the following scenario;

You have lost a few bets, you place a big bet on Bank, the cards are drawn as follows;

8 to the player
Picture to the bank
Picture to the player for a natural 8, you feel sick and curse, have already written the bet off, wondering how you will recoup, keep betting more or by other means.
Next card to the Bank, 9.  Bank wins 9 over 8, sh1t you say. 

The question is 'how do / would you feel'???

I've had this happen many times, I'm relieved but not happy, because I would have rather have not been put through the experience of seeing that N8 to the player side, too stressful to fully enjoy the win?     


Next scenario (again this actually happened to me over a year ago), I'm getting battered at the tables, it's been a long hard session and I'm losing heavily, basically there is little way back and I'm thinking I'll have to record the session as a losing one.  After playing for longer than 12 hours, common-sense has long gone.  I put my last four black chips on the Banker.  Player pulls a Natural 8, that's it, all over bar the shouting.  Banker is on a three and dealer pulls a six for 9 over 8, win to the Bank.

I say nothing, absolutely nothing, my friend who is next to me, goes ape sh1t and smacks me too hard on the shoulder.  It was like an $800 turn-around, I continue on and win the session. 

The point is, I didn't celebrate at the table, I said zilch, didn't even smile.  Maybe it due to a number of reasons, firstly I know this game can change on a whim and until you are out the door, take nothing for granted.  Is it that document I posted many years ago from Yarbrough which clearly states "do not get emotionally involved in the game", maybe I take that too literally and try too hard.  When I get home, I might fist pump the air, laugh all the way home, but at the tables, it is complain about the losses and stum about the wins mainly. 

Anybody equate to this?  I came across a scientific study relating to this behaviour this week, which may be of interest in understanding ourselves at the gaming tables, the more enlightened we become the better equipped we are psychologically.  Psychological = composure & discipline...

Who recognises such traits...

I'll post a link next time.......

[soxfan]

As to yer first scenario I never get caught up in any single, hand, shoe or session. Wins are win and loss is a loss, now matter how they fall. As to yer second scenario, I would NEVER put in twelve hour sessions trying to chase losses! The best way to impose discipine is to set a HARD limit as to number of shoes played per session. For, me that is SIX shoes, no more or less. I walk out the damned door after that sixth shoe, up, down or even for the day. I never bring the baccarats home with me, neither, hey hey.

[RouletteKEY]

I say nothing, absolutely nothing, my friend who is next to me, goes ape sh1t and smacks me too hard on the shoulder.  It was like an $800 turn-around, I continue on and win the session. 

The point is, I didn't celebrate at the table, I said zilch, didn't even smile. 

Been there...fortunately not anytime recently but been there all the same...it's that numb zone where you are expecting to get slaughtered because it's been a bloodbath and think "I am playing this as it should be played and if I go down in flames I go down in flames"...but this is the right thing to do regardless of the outcome.  The win comes and it's just business as usual and I kinda wish to myself the drawdown wouldn't have quite gotten that deep and probably add that subtle thought of "it's about friggin time".  But yeah no jumping up and down...that's reserved for when it's an incredible streak and the whole table is rockin'...doesn't happen very often...has to be the right mix of folks and drink at the table I suppose.

All's well that ends well   

[Rolex-Watch]

No show of emotion when winning significant bets (inside I'm happy), overt show of emotion when losing significant bets.

Regarding the comments in the thread, I also used to think that the decision is either won or lost and the score is irrelevant.  Factually as that may be, emotionally it is another matter.  Losing 9-8, 7-6, consecutive hands by one point, or due to the 5th or 6th card drawn, or my "tip me over the edge" pet hate (bugs me more than anything else) is having a significant Banker bet out and straight off the bat the Player pulls a N9, I've had that too many times and it riles me more than anything else and I've been known to quit the table expressing many expletives.  Yep it ain't no love-fest gambling.

Anyway, I came across this youtube program last week regarding problem gamblers (watch the whole thing if you wish) and how their brains are wired differently to stimuli.    Now while I'm aware it is possible to get truly pi$$ed on Serotonin when gambling for long periods, something I can now recognize  & don't succumb to it.   

Sometimes I might place feeler bets if I fancy something such as a silly trend bet, the problem with doing this, is that if it doesn't come in, you are now committed and need a winning bet for a higher stake from somewhere and should you lose two bets in a row, you start asking yourself, "why did I do that", "it's not even part of my current strategy".  A perfect example would be the bet selection "AS", AS4 is much stronger than AS3, less tasking on the bankroll.  Sometimes if there has been no action for a while, you might jump in after a three streak, and now that streak will run to 7 (Murphy's Law), you lose 4 bets in a row and stop.  Had you waited for the 4 streak, you would have won the final 4th bet.  Slack discpline and impatience.

The point of the thread, is this UK Doctor and expert in problem gambling, has discovered that with problem gamblers they get a bigger buzz out of a near miss than the actual winning of a bet!!!    When I first watched this, I'm wondering, if it contributes to me, taking these unnecessary bets, taking unnecessary risks, example betting the full amount on a banker streak going from 4 to 5 once my bet trigger comes around, but I was never on the streak and now I'm hoping B4 will go to B5, rather than say half the required bet.     Or not stopping when betting "AS", getting angry with the mouse button and going click, click, click, while swearing at the monitor.  Trying to be too professional by not getting emotionally involved in wins and over-reacting too much regarding losing bets. 

To solve something (discipline issues), first you need awareness, once knowledgeable about an issue, then do something about it.  So tonight I made more of a conscious effort to celebrate individual wins <wink>.

Youtube starts at 43:15
https://youtu.be/I-uM4XSi0Fo?t=43m15s

I remembered another reason not to overly celebrate wins. Complacency, once you start taking things for granted, you will not only let your guard slip (unnecessary risk taking), it will quiet likely bite you in the a$$ also. 

     



   

[Kav]

Hello Rolex,

The issues you raise are very dear to my heart. Roulette play and study is a important part of my life. And not only because of the financial effect. People often discard the importance of games with comments like "it's just a game". Anything that takes time of our lives is important. Even if it ware a stupid facebook game. Therefore I feel it is a must to understand the relation of player-game much further. And this means to dig deeper into the psychological aspects of roulette. What it is. What it means. Why we do it. What it does to us.

The documentary is great and moving. You Rolex, take some practical, actionable suggestions from it. It can help you gain more control of yourself and your game. This is great. I'm not so much a practical guy. Still I'm interested in gambling psychology as part of self-discovery.

[HunchBacShrimp]

I always buy in for more than I want to lose, and I carry 2 to 5 times more than my buy in cash in my wallet.
I like to protect my psyche from losing it all and walking straight to the parking lot. For me, it is positive reinforcement that I go to the cage and cash in some chips before I head home, even if I lost big that day.
And I either exercise or monitor my discipline by not re buying in with the cash I have readily available.

My last trip to the casino was close to a 11 hr marathon. Headache and hungry I pressed on determined to get even. Not a good idea or a smart play. Nothing to be proud of. I'm grateful and lucky that I got lucky. After dumping half my buy in at the craps table ( which is my loss limit) I took the second half to the Bac table. Tread water for a long time and then eventually lost it too. So that was actually two session BR's gone, and pulled out a third for a second buy in. An indicator that my discipline has weakened. Couple hours of getting nowhere, frustrated I bet 100% of that buy in on Player. Lucky, I won, should of went home but pressed on. Made two more bets equal to half my second buy in, won them both and went home immediately. Even for the night. Stupid play.

I refrain from getting emotionally involved in my wins and losses. I refrain from joining in the cheers at the craps table when a shooter is hot. I refrain from getting all worked up yelling "MONKEY" with the rest of the Bac table. I ignore the score of the cards and just concentrate that there are no dealer mistakes against me.(I don't make a fuss when they are in my favor) I just count my money and think of what my next bet is going to be. Once something has happened, its over. It's not that there is no use dwelling on what could have been, or what almost happened even though that's true. It's that I'm fortunate to have an absolute hatred for dwelling on the past, I mean a deep dark angry hatred of the mental anguish of what if's. I don't lay claim to strength of character, I'm just lucky to have such a strong emotional aversion to it.

I do sometimes quietly make a fist with a short hammer motion and say "yes" when I've won several in a row at craps and I'm debating pulling my bets down when the shooter hits my number again. Its more of a relief thing cause now I've got the money I wanted to rack and I'm still up to win. I also indulge in a minor bit of clapping and smiles when I hit the 30 to 1 dragon on Player. ( I don't always make that bet, but I do always make it on Player only) I also try to be subdued about it cause as you know, the rest of the table has typically just lost thousands on the Banker bet. Asians seem to be a pleasant bunch tho (no racism intended) as many craps players are quite the opposite.

I do this because I read that every time a person wins a bet a tiny bit of endorphins are released into the brain. Reinforcing that winning feeling. Now the brain doesn't seem to know or care that you just lost 9 in a row it celebrates anyway. It doesn't know or care that you should win an equal number of bets that you lose, it celebrates anyway. It doesn't know or care that you lost 9 twenty dollar bets and won a ten dollar bet, it celebrates all the same. Releasing those pleasure chemicals driving you further down the road of addiction and ruin.

It happened to me. Fatigue made me bet the biggest bet of my life. Winning that bet invigorated me to stay and bet more and I did. I also made two of the second biggest bets of my life and won them. Now, I say I was lucky. However it may have been the worse thing to happen to me. Cause I can't stop thinking about those big wins, it seemed so easy... And I plan on going back this Friday. I should probably stay away for a month, get it out of my system. But * shrug * I want to try and win some money.....

[albertojonas]

Sorry to invade here. I would like to send Rollex-Watch PM but it appears i am blocked for some reason...