Quotehave developed a certain gambling philosophy over the years. One of the basics of that philosophy is to take advantage of those times when I have a winning pattern going for me. And one of the ways I do that, take advantage of the good luck, is to keep playing.
The majority of people come into a casino and when they get lucky they quit to soon. They start out with a couple of hundred dollars, win $500 and walk out with the feeling that they have scored a tremendous victory over the casino. Those same people will come back time after time and drop $50, $100, $200 each visit, and without realizing it they still aren't ahead when they do get lucky. Because they quit playing too soon. Vegas casinos are so plush and luxurious because people don't always cut their losses but they cut their winnings!
QuoteA professional gambler rides his luck when he is winning. But you'll never see a professional bet the same amount consistently when he's winning-unless it's the house limit.''
Seriously, this does it for you?
Does the guy ever actually teach how to get an edge in the game of baccarat, or is it just more of the same money management progression nonsense?Where are the wise words?
What I've read so far is simply page filler. Basically the same thing that you'd find in a JP book.
-Xander
There's so many bootleg copies out there. Last year someone was peddling copies on Lulu.com. Opportunites are very limited for some people, but not others. I make a living out of playing. But most people simply don't have the patience, and or can't travel.
Now regarding bac. Yes I know exactly how to get a real edge. And it's not BS money management, gaming discipline, or hit and run nonsense. (And no, I'm not charging for it.) :thumbsup:
-Xander
Xander.....
I would like to hear your views on bacc
It's a good game to make money on if you have good eyes and if you're not lazy. You really can get the edge over the casino.
I was talking about the edge you say you get at the game.....not the experience
A good AP player can get a fractional edge up to as high as 15% over the casino on mini bac.
Would you care to explain how that's achieved
It's called "sort play". APs have made millions playing it at bac. In many locations around LV and the US, the cards are not covered by the little brushes when they're setting in the shoe. An astute player, with good vision, can follow the shifting pattern on the back of the cards.
By tracking the shifting of the printed pattern on the back of the cards, the AP player can categorize virtually every card in the shoe- into a few, to several, different categories using a pen and paper, as well as a discrete tracking code.
After cataloging the back of each card and it's value, the player calculates the edge for either the player bet or the banker bet for each of the patterns sorted.
Once the necessary calculations have been made, the AP player can get the edge by looking at the next card in the shoe, in order to determine if the next card out is more likely to benefit the player, the banker, or whether it's likely to be neutral.
Often times, the AP immediately has the edge on the first hand - after having sorted all of the decks. As the AP plays deeper into the shoe, the edge can increase substantially.
And yes, this can be done in BJ as well, but it involves using a plus/minus count and the separation of each card into a symmetrical verses an asymmetrical category.
Sort playing can enable the player to get a very real edge, unlike the utter nonsense that you read about gaming discipline, up as you lose progressions, trends, etc.
-Xander
My old friend, Coussin Gonflable, wishes to borrow my keyboard. He has been spending time in Spain with his new love, Doloros de Parto.
Go Coussie.................
Hooooooooooboy, I tell you one something! Stuff your pillow with horse feathers and dream on.
That's it?? Well, there you have it!
Sam
"In May, PokerNews learned that Phil Ivey was suing Crockfords, Britain's oldest casino, for withholding £7.8 million he won playing Punto Banco, a form of baccarat. The Daily Mail got a look at Ivey's court submission over the weekend, and the nine-time World Series of Poker bracelet winner claims that he used a technique called "edge sorting" at the casino."
"Edge sorting is a method of advantage play that uses natural irregularities in the cut on the backs of cards to be able to identify certain groups of cards. By being able to identify critical cards, APs are able to improve their betting and playing decisions. This method of advantage play is not new; APs have been using it to beat the house for at least two decades. The advantages that edge sorting can produce are significant and enduring. The games targeted range from blackjack and baccarat to Caribbean Stud and Mississippi Stud. Casinos around the world have been hard hit by this method. And the fix is trivial.
Abram Alexander, in his book "Advanced Tactics in Casino Advantage Play" (available only as a Kindle e-book), wrote,
"One of the most closely-guarded secrets in the upper echelons of casino advantage play is the practice of card sorting, known as "the turn" ... The technique is predicated on the imperfections in the manufacturing process of casino playing cards. The backs of the cards, which generally contain some sort of repeating diamond or geometrical pattern, are often asymmetrical. If examined closely, it will be revealed that the top and bottom or right and left edges of the cards are not identical ... My own experience is limited, having only played on my own, and only in three casinos (The Palms, The Orleans, and the Barbary Coast) ... This technique is best practiced with a team that can lock up the entire table and, in fact, I have on more than a few occasions come into a casino to see a veritable who's who of advantage players working in concert to make it happen."
To understand how edge sorting works, we have to examine the backs of a few common playing cards. The following two designs show asymmetries along the right and left edges. Note the full diamond shapes along the left edge and the half-diamond shapes along the right edges."- Dr. Elliot Jacobson
(https://betselection.cc/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwwwdotapheatdotnet.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F12%2Fedge_sorting_1.jpg&hash=2c5ee61363b612d7276863cdaef14c1cd156cd05)
A quick FYI: Edge sorting is currently the biggest AP threat to casinos. Losses to sort play could be in the hundreds of millions.
@Twocat,
Sort play isn't for the lazy, slow wit, or simple minded. Your cousin should steer clear. ;)
-Xander
Quote from: Xander on January 30, 2014, 06:38:42 PM
@Twocat,
Sort play isn't for the lazy, slow wit, or simple minded. Your cousin should steer clear. ;)
-Xander
When Priyanka came on this forum, it was like a breath of fresh air. You are like the wind off a sewage treatment plant.
Since you--who seems to have set himself up as the forum authority--have a problem with grammar, let me parse my statement. "My old friend, Coussin Gonflable,..."
my old friend and
Coussin Gonflable are one and the same.
Let me say it another way, "My old friend, whose name is Coussin Gonflable...."
So you see, the word "cousin" was not in my post.
And you wrote a book?
I'm done with you. Will Rogers said, "Never argue with a fool 'cause people can't tell the difference."
Samster
QuoteSince you--who seems to have set himself up as the forum authority--have a problem with grammar, let me parse my statement. "My old friend, Coussin Gonflable,..." my old friend and Coussin Gonflable are one and the same. -Twocat
Twocat,
Do you by chance have red hair, read poetry, and cry at sunsets? I wasn't aware that I've set myself up as the "forum authority".
Regarding the "Coussin" comment:
I simply assumed that you didn't know how to spell cousin. My mistake! Since you've pointed out my mistake above, I can help you find your's as well, if you'd like me to find them all. :glasses:
Don't be so hypersensative. ;)
Will someone please hand Twocat another tissue?
@Xander....Of course, the CSM murders all this clever edge-sort play-card counting malarkey....does it not?
I've not been in every casino in UK, but I've been in a few. I haven't seen a card shoe for 4 years.
@Sam....Priyanka had already been on the forum for months. It was GreatGrampa in drag lol
Quote@Xander....Of course, the CSM murders all this clever edge-sort play-card counting malarkey....does it not?
I've not been in every casino in UK, but I've been in a few. I haven't seen a card shoe for 4 years.-Tuner
Turner,
Malarkey? Is that what you call the number one AP threat to casinos in 2014?
Perhaps you'd like to point to a better system that gives the player the edge? Dr. Elliot Jacobson and Bill Zender , gaming experts and consultants, certainly don't consider it to be "Malarkey". ;)
As long as the player can see the next card to be dealt, then he can get an edge via sort play, regardless of the continuous shuffle. Besides, there are still several casinos that do not use the CSM.
By the way, the incident with Phil Ivey just recently happened. LV Strip casinos have lost millions to sort players. MGM recently replaced their cards with a new back pattern. Unfortunately for them, the new pattern enables a better play for the sharper APs.
Quote from: Xander on January 30, 2014, 09:00:24 PM
Turner,
Malarkey? Is that what you call the number one AP threat to casinos in 2014? Perhaps you'd like to point to a better system that gives the player the edge?
Calm down dear Xander.....
I asked if the CSM kills AP. It does....DEAD
It can't be threatening the casino or they would have changed to CSMs.
Its naive to believe Casinos are threatened and do nothing about it.
Martingale wins?...lower the house limit
Card counting?...burn cards and use half the shoe or install CSM
Visual Balistic computers? ....no bets after the spin. They will do that if VB becomes a threat.
They will use CSM if AP becomes a threat.
OK, CSM may turn people off playing. So they must still make enough with punters playing shoes to not care about AP.
QuoteIts naive to believe Casinos are threatened and do nothing about it.-Turner
Actually it's entertaining, but often true. Many casinos are in the dark. By the way, sort play is legal. Just like counting cards is
legal.
QuoteMartingale wins?...lower the house limit-Turner
No, actually it doesn't work. The long term expectation is still a loser. It's simply a foolish venture that most new gambler's try. It's really no different than any other "up as you lose progression". Casino's like them.
QuoteCard counting?...burn cards and use half the shoe -Turner
Card counting isn't an efficient way to win, unless you're ok with minimum wage.
QuoteVisual Balistic computers? ....no bets after the spin. They will do that if VB becomes a threat.-Turner
Are you an expert in ballistic AP roulette play? Have you ever encountered this? I have. Only in three casinos over the years. The funny thing was, in some cases I wasn't even playing VB. So calling off bets before spinning the ball didn't help the casino.
QuoteThey will use CSM if AP becomes a threat.-Turner
Again, as long as the player can see the back of the next card in the shoe, the sort player can get an edge. If the player can't see the next card, then he'll simply move to the next casino. The CSM won't stop a knowledgeable sort player.
QuoteOK, CSM may turn people off playing. So they must still make enough with punters playing shoes to not care about AP.-Turner
Turner,
Do you know what the term AP means? It means playing with a real edge. This is something that everyone on this forum dreams about, and it's what they're all chasing. If you find a way to consistently win, then you've found a way to get the edge, and are by definition, an AP player. Understand? :thumbsup:
-Xander
Xander...
I would love to see a VB computer predict where the ball lands if the casion stopped bets before the ball was spun. Do you understand?
the Casino is in control. If you can do it.....it because they are letting you.
They love a smart ar.se
Turner,
Ballistics isn't the only way to beat the wheel, so calling "no more bets" early isn't always a big killer.
So tell me, are you trying to become an AP player or just trying to lose less?
-Xander
Xander.....Im still trying to work out what your remit is to be honest
Quote from: Xander on January 30, 2014, 09:00:24 PM
Is that what you call the number one AP threat to casinos in 2014? Perhaps you'd like to point to a beter system that gives the player the edge? Dr. Elliot Jacobson and Bill Zender , gaming experts and consultants, certainly don't consider it to be "Malarkey". ;)
As long as the player can see the next card to be dealt, then he can get an edge via sort play, regardless of the continuous shuffle. Besides, there are still several casinos that do not use the CSM.
By the way, the incident with Phil I'vey just recently happened. LV Strip casinos have lost millions to sort players. MGM recently replaced their cards with a new back pattern. Unfortunately for them, the new pattern enables a beter play for the sharper APs.
You talk a lot of sense and there is no disputing it offers a measurable edge when it presents itself.
Ivey and his lady friend went a whole lot further than trying to sneek-peek cards about to be drawn next. Besides needing at a minimum 20/20 vision, it is not something that everybody can take advantage of. Some places use cards (where I play) which have a thin white border surrounding the card pattern, also trying to spot design anomalies seeing only a small portion of any card from four feet at best, could be tad difficult close to near impossible.