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[alrelax]

There are basically two ways to play. Attempting to follow what is being presented and have the opportunity to capitalize on certain sections, or the systematic and grinding way of believing in certain presentments will happen on a repetitive type of basis.

Anyone who says baccarat is completely random has not really played the game for very long. It's only truly random, in anything can happen at any time without any guarantee when it will or when it will not happen. Yes some shoes will follow no patterns or trends of any type and yet numerous shoes will. There really is not a definable number/ percentage of shoes throughout the day to form definable statistics as to when a shoe will present random or not, or will present consistently according to house edges.

If you do not believe that baccarat is not random, you still have to accept that the shoe presentments waiting to come out once the cards are shuffled cannot be changed no matter what. So if the shoe is set to present 1 Banker followed by 6 Players, followed by 1 Banker followed by 7 Players, followed by 1 Banker followed by 6 Players, followed by 1 Banker followed by 7 Players, followed by 1 Banker followed by 6 Players, followed by 1 Banker followed by 7 Players, followed by 15 alternating Banker-Player hands, followed by 17 Bankers, followed by 7 back to back Ties, it will happen and nothing you or anyone can do to stop it. If you can adopt and not set yourself to any belief, you should make huge money on that kind of shoe quite easily. 

Likewise for a baccarat player to adhere to wagering on betting whatever just won, or whatever just lost, etc., he will equally hurt himself with huge restrictions in winning by subscribing to such restrictions themselves.

Of course there are pros and cons to both going after patterned/trending type of presentments as well as grinding down a systematic outcome governed by statistical larger range house edged results of one type or another.

Then there will be your systems statistical math types that will write to the end of the world saying that no matter how much profit one makes on following presenting outcomes, he will give it all back by the repetitive wagering on whatever it is he is after that does not materialize. However that statement is dead on wrong. It is wrong if the player observes a good money management method with decent positive progressions and employs a session limit that resets himself especially after a shoe that provides him the presentments to make great wins on.

As far as the house edge goes, the wins and losses at the baccarat table will only replicate those over large amounts of shoes, very very large amounts, which is about 1,000,000 shoes or 80 million hands.  And it won't equal out by adding up all of your sessions throughout the week or throughout the month in a haphazard sporadic type of way, etc.

Players wagering large amounts of money per shoe or two, or part of a shoe generally will have no house edge at all that applies to him, if applied in very short bursts of wagering large. The house edge satistics of the game generally applies to the grinders/set system players, that sit for long periods racking up extreme hours with one or two repetitive wagers.  And of course they usually wind up restricting themselves from any type of larger wins.

As far as someone who can follow whatever presentments and wagering with positive progressions aggressively with win money and varies his wagering the house Edge does not apply to that person because of the extremely short amount larger positive progressions and total wagers he tends to make.

[alrelax]

Some talk lately about the proper way to play or the way to play to make money and all of that.

As well when I scan some forums there is still chatter about 'set systems' and 'mechanical wagering' styles, that the members are claiming fame of course.

Hell there's one forum I checked where there is a member with hundreds of pages talking about a guaranteed $1,000,000 someone can win by simply applying something he came up with.  Doing it a couple hundred times a year and it's a guaranteed over $1,000,000 in your pocket after a few years. Sure would be great and casinos sure would get hurt or be out of business, or at least a large quantity of them in bankruptcy, it wouldn't have taken this long for the casinos to get hurt financially by something called C19.  They would have gotten hurt by all the baccarat and roulette players a long time ago.  IMO, such absurdity hurts the interested forum readers that are trying to learn something for their table game efforts.

I agree, sure would be great to walk in the casino with $300 or $500 or a couple thousand dollars and wager certain amounts on a set wager and every time it comes around win.  Something along the lines of winning 5 and losing 1 wager in every wagering cycle.  And there's tons of other ones out there, I'm just picking one to highlight. Winning an easy $300 or $500 or $2,000 for the day and doing that 200 to 250 times a year. It isn't possible!  And it never was and it never will be.  I hate to be the bearer of bad news but let's move on and talk about the reality of baccarat wagering.

[alrelax]

Thought I would bump this.  Anyone desire to comment?

[KungFuBac]

Good Day Everyone,

alrelax:
"...Then there will be your systems statistical math types that will write to the end of the world saying that no matter how much profit one makes on following presenting outcomes, he will give it all back by the repetitive wagering on whatever it is he is after that does not materialize. However that statement is dead on wrong. It is wrong if the player observes a good money management method with decent positive progressions and employs a session limit that resets himself especially after a shoe that provides him the presentments to make great wins on...."


     Money management is the absolute most important variable in a players gameplan(mainly, how we manage WIN monies). The house edge of 1.2% is not the reason our buyin is zapped (goes to -0-). Its not that difficult to design a pos progression that will spin off a compounded return greater than 1.2%. If offsetting that was our only goal and determinant of being a winner or loser.

In my opinion, its what do we do with the income(New win money). We should not limit the upside and let -0- be the downside per bad shoe(When our buyin reduces to zero/casino gets to manage our loss $). The casino doesn't take their monies from winning shoes(our losing shoes) and immediately go invest(buy) the same amount in new chips. Neither should we on our winning shoes.

As I recall forum veteran albalaha often insinuated we shall see both extremes approached equally(-streaks/+streaks). I agree, and feel much of ones success depends on how we manage the Variance per shoe.
IMO betting on even-chance events is very analogous to investing in the stock market or most any random event with one winner/one loser. Where all investors(bettors) are given equal opportunity to invest(bet) on either side of the wager.

Good post alrelax,

     

[alrelax]

That is why I said; " Likewise for a baccarat player to adhere to wagering on betting whatever just won, or whatever just lost, etc., he will equally hurt himself with huge restrictions in winning by subscribing to such restrictions themselves.".

But so many at the tables only want to continue wagering on the winning trend/pattern  or what they just won on, no matter what it is was. And that my friend is the sure way to go bust or at the very best, stay even for the session if you have the willpower to walk away when you realize you can't profit much.