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[alrelax]

I am sorry, there is no way a system or repetitive sections, etc., etc., can repeat themselves enough for a player to capitalize on them--shoe after shoe, and so on.  People come on here and ask, trying to find that magical 'system' or grail that they think is just lying there in wait. 

What works on one or two shoes will not prevail on the following.  What works on shoe number 1 through 15 of the past 15 shoes will not work on the following 15 or what some think, say a group of 75 or 150 shoes.  What happened during the first 20 hands of shoes 20-30 is not going to happen in any comparative order in another group of shoes.

What the winning card is on the 4th or 5th or 6th opened card is not going to be the same in a repetitive long run.  That winning card can be of any value to keep the previous total the same or increase or even reduce to win for the trailing side, etc.  Too many look for rhyme and reason, I call it.  What they/you should be looking for, is recognizing what is happening and not what happened or what can happen. Or, and IMO most importantly, what you want to happen. 

IMO, there are two main reasons for this.  One is the shuffle, no matter manual or machine.  Two and probably even more important is the cut and its placement.  Since baccarat is a game that produces a winning hand out of any 4, 5 or 6 cards and it doesn't matter what values are left in the deck at any given time.  You can virtually win on anything, even with a zero point value.  What works on a weak shoe will not work on a strong shoe.  What works on a strong shoe will not work on a weak shoe.  What works on shoes that are weak and strong will not work wholeheartedly on anything else.  The list goes on and on. 

Yesterday the opening shoe of the evening was super strong and I mean strong.  But the mentality of the highest majority is the cut and the regression to the mean along the lines of everything evens out.

Get that out of your mind in the tiny, trivial few shoes you are playing in a live casino.

If you have 200 miles to go down the highway and you set your mind to speed, say 30 mph over the speed limit the entire trip, what are your odds of getting caught versus speeding for say 5 miles only? Isn't it virtually the same thing when playing baccarat?   

This one shoe started out last night a tad bit choppy, you know, P--B--T--P--B--P--B, etc., and then went into strong Players.  Something like PPPPP--B--PPPPPP--B--PPP-B--PPPPPP and then a double Banker comes out.  Everyone is citing and stacking up their money on the Player.  Saying something along the lines of Player is strong and it will cut back.  Others are saying Banker because Banker has to catch up. 

Yes, both sides could be correct and that is the dilemma, those having a neutral thought or clear mind and they listen to the banter, confuse themselves. 

Then the Banker went all the way down and out to the side.  Huge.  Strong.  I mean like a solid 12 repeating hands with 3 ties and most all naturals or 3rd card totals of 8's and 9's.  Instead of playing what the shoe is producing the people and I mean all of them are second guessing and totally ignoring what is actually happening.  Their reasoning was, how strong the Player was and the previous section pattern that was already produced.  Each and every Banker that appeared, they had a reason it should not have been made.  True, those so called 'reasons' might be valid and correct on other shoes, but not the one they were currently playing. 

[AsymBacGuy]

I would add my opinion on that.

"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms.
For any "strong" sequence you'll get the same proportional inverse amount of counterparts and there's no way to guess this or that or how strong or how weak will be the actual shoe, the very next shoe or the future shoes.
For that matter there are no valuable balancements or RTM effects because it could take a lot of time to get those situations (Al is completely right about this).

Strong or weak is an evaluation made ex post and just made on almost every hand resolved.

That's why I preferred to limit the bac outcomes just in three categories: singles, doubles and triples.

Imo, it's not on how many or how strong or weak a situation appear to be, it's about HOW certain outcomes were produced.

Personally I use two types of registrations: the standard one and the shoe by shoe registration.

The shoe by shoe registration involves the precise classification of what happened for every column of any shoe depicted in the display (or in my chart).
Every column will get just one of the three outcomes: single, double or triple.
Then my strategy will be adapted accordingly to those results.

Why a shoe per shoe registration should be of some more help than the standard one?

Answer: variance.

Since we have to register various shoes and not only one, we are restricting the field of asymmetrical probabilities of a finite card game, thus an expected event will be more restrained in its apperance expecially taking into account the exact position of what happened in the past related to what should be more expected in theory.

In the short term anything could happen, maybe some final columns will never appear for 2-3 shoes (because the actual shoes are producing a lot of streaks) but in the intermediate and acceptable terms the 36-38 or so different columns playing for us will follow more precisely the probability to form sequences of expected lenght. Expecially if we take them as a whole bunch of fellows fictionally playing for us.

as.








 

   

 



   

[alrelax]

[/b]


"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms.

(I use those terms for a couple of reasons, one and probably foremost is a description of what the cards are producing--if they are repetitively doing it.  Not just to describe but for what is coming, the change.  The shoe produces sections--no two ways about that.  If you look at the board, the main road and the largest one there on the horizontal---divide it up into thirds or quad's.  These are the sections.  More often than not, and more than anything else, the shoe will follow those sections pretty well).

For any "strong" sequence you'll get the same proportional inverse amount of counterparts and there's no way to guess this or that or how strong or how weak will be the actual shoe, the very next shoe or the future shoes.

(True, a player cannot guess it, but it will come within the next section on the board or card, it has to).

For that matter there are no valuable balancements or RTM effects because it could take a lot of time to get those situations (Al is completely right about this).

(You might quickly accuse me of contradicting myself, but I am not.  Almost every shoe, meaning--more often than not, RTM or a balancement, will come.  Might not complete itself, might complete itself and other forms of balancement, etc.  I am attempting to define, following what the shoe is producing).

[21 Aces]

Entire shoes or segments of a shoe can be strong Bank or strong Player.  Take out ties and the true actual balance of hands count/ percentage becomes even greater.  For example:

End of Shoe:
Bank 51% - Player  38% - Tie 11%

Taking out Tie as neither Bank or Player wins in those hands:
Bank 57% - Player 43%

[alrelax]

If you believe that, all you have to do is flat bat the banker at an EZ Bac (no vig) and you will clean house.  Go ahead.

[21 Aces]

If you believe that, all you have to do is flat bat the banker at an EZ Bac (no vig) and you will clean house.  Go ahead.

That is fact supported by most baccarat scoreboards.  I am not stating that you will know ahead of time the overall strength of Bank vs. Player for the entire shoe or a segment of the shoe.

AsymBacGuy stated '"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms.' and I was responding to that.





Above Example So Far in the Shoe:
Bank 59.% - Player  33.8% - Tie 6.7%

Taking out Tie as neither Bank or Player wins in those hands:
Bank 63.6% - Player 36.3%

[alrelax]

I would add my opinion on that.

"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms[/b]

[I highly discount that, years of playing and numerous players and dealers a like that are far beyond the 'recreational type' refer to sections with those words or something very similar to those two words'.]


Strong or weak is an evaluation made ex post and just made on almost every hand resolved.


[Absolutely NOT!  Sure one can look at the board or card and point out a section that was strong or weak, but to overall throw the words "ex post", which I interpret as standing for 'after the fact' or 'after something happened', etc., is 100% wrong.  One can be experiencing 'strong' or 'weak' exactly as it is happening.  Did so last weekend and here is one example.  The numbers, the draws, the prevailing side with continuous repeats and every hand a natural and if nto a natural every third card draw for it would bring it up to 8 or 9, etc.  The other side, with the majority of pulls remains so far away from prevailing it is laughable. And this happens with a repetitive basis, not meaning only streaks.  Could be repeating hands or some call-streaks.  But could be any combination of various patterns, for the sake of explanation here I use that term.   

Not necessarily wagering on a pattern, wagering on what the shoe is producing also.]







 

   

[alrelax]

That is fact supported by most baccarat scoreboards.  I am not stating that you will know ahead of time the overall strength of Bank vs. Player for the entire shoe or a segment of the shoe.

AsymBacGuy stated '"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms.' and I was responding to that.





Above Example So Far in the Shoe:
Bank 59.% - Player  33.8% - Tie 6.7%

Taking out Tie as neither Bank or Player wins in those hands:
Bank 63.6% - Player 36.3%

One shoe will be equal, the next Banker prevails overall, the next Player prevails overall.  Or 3 equal, 1 Banker and 2 Player prevails ahead.  Then 3 Players  and 3 equal, then 5 Bankers and 1 Player and none equal.  It will change and change without any notice, rhyme or reason.

There are key triggers that will work within one shoe or a section of the shoe and then not for the next 4 shoes or just the opposite or any combination thereof. 

The best advantage a player can have is setting his sole focus and sights on '1 section' without reference to the before or after or history of anything, etc. 

In all essence, play what is coming out.

[alrelax]

That is fact supported by most baccarat scoreboards.  I am not stating that you will know ahead of time the overall strength of Bank vs. Player for the entire shoe or a segment of the shoe.

AsymBacGuy stated '"Strong" or "weak" are recreational player terms.' and I was responding to that.





Above Example So Far in the Shoe:
Bank 59.% - Player  33.8% - Tie 6.7%

Taking out Tie as neither Bank or Player wins in those hands:
Bank 63.6% - Player 36.3%

The old school way of playing that particular card is as follows:

The player that had the shoe would throw up something sizable to make that 2nd Banker.  When the 2nd Banker hit on hand #7, the whole table would be like, "Banker time, Run Time! Let's do it"!!!!  Sure it could fizzle out and cut, absolutely, but at times it would do just this and there would have been very sizable wagers out on that 3rd Banker.  And every one WOULD NOT have went for the cut on the 4th hand being dealt by the player with the shoe that just made the 3 Bankers.  Just about everyone would have pressed a time or two and then just pulled down each win and only lose the last one when it finally did cut to the Players. 

And, just about the same exact thing on the Players little run and the subsequent two other Bankers right after. 

[21 Aces]

Thank you for post - will review soon. Only comment I had was on # of Bank vs.  # of Player - haven't actually looked at shoe difficulty yet.  Tough to find scoreboard images online and my house is so strict about photos...

Favorite shoe is Bank ---> 1 Player... Bank ---> 1 Player... Bank ---->

[AsymBacGuy]

Al, I think that it would be too easy to beat the game following the varieties of repetitive situations provided by the game.
Actually most part of asiatic players follow this scheme and we know the results.
But selecting at most the betting situations we'll never know.

OT.

I visited Lucky Dragon casino in Vegas the opening day and part of the following week.
The casino is very small considering the Vegas standards but I liked it, expecially when I took the first glance after the elevator doors from parking lot opened right in front of the casino (a real exception in Vegas).
Not surprisingly everything there is chinese oriented: decor, food, writings, language at the table, everything. 8 number abounded as well as red and golden colors and heads of lettuce were placed here and there (I didn't know they should bring good luck according to chinese culture).

Every baccarat table is EZ conceived: good news since the vig on BP hands is reduced. Unfortunately dealers tend to burn a fair amount of cards from the bottom of the deck so diminishing the value of card counting the Dragon and Panda bets.
I don't know if this was made on purpose for a sort of advertising but at the opening day one shoe produced seven (!) Dragon bets after 60 hands or so. Not a so probable occurence...

Every table sets a minimum limit of $10 or $15 with $5000 maximum but you are not allowed to peek at the cards (obviously).
I counted 18 baccarat regular tables and 6 high stakes tables still not sure about that.   

Differently to every other Vegas casino, electronic bac pits having a live dealer were filled almost every day.

Of course no craps, just some black jack tables, one roulette and slots.

The high stakes room was desolately almost empty every day and at least for now you were right on this Al.

The three restaurants there are the most strict chinese oriented restaurants I've ever seen in Vegas for years besides Ping Pang Pong at Gold Coast casino.
You'll have a better probability to get three Dragon bonus bets in a row than eating a hamburger in the casino. No way for the hamburger, sooner or later a positive outcome for the Dragons. 

I don't know if it was just an "opening attitude" but they gave me very huge comps in relation of what I bet on the tables.

Dealers are under the very heterogenous category: some were very obnoxious, prone to always chatting in chinese language with other players and staring at you like you were a perfect stranger. Others were really friendly and having a genuine welcome behaviour toward the players.
Floormen were always friendly though.

In conclusion, Lucky Dragon casino is one of the best Vegas casino to play baccarat considering the low limits, the number of tables, the EZ nature and the comps, but if you'll get hungry and you're not chinese you better go elsewhere...

as. 



   




       

 





 





   






 

[alrelax]

Al, I think that it would be too easy to beat the game following the varieties of repetitive situations provided by the game.
Actually most part of asiatic players follow this scheme and we know the results.
But selecting at most the betting situations we'll never know.

OT.

I visited Lucky Dragon casino in Vegas the opening day and part of the following week.
The casino is very small considering the Vegas standards but I liked it, expecially when I took the first glance after the elevator doors from parking lot opened right in front of the casino (a real exception in Vegas).
Not surprisingly everything there is chinese oriented: decor, food, writings, language at the table, everything. 8 number abounded as well as red and golden colors and heads of lettuce were placed here and there (I didn't know they should bring good luck according to chinese culture).

Every baccarat table is EZ conceived: good news since the vig on BP hands is reduced. Unfortunately dealers tend to burn a fair amount of cards from the bottom of the deck so diminishing the value of card counting the Dragon and Panda bets.
I don't know if this was made on purpose for a sort of advertising but at the opening day one shoe produced seven (!) Dragon bets after 60 hands or so. Not a so probable occurence...

Every table sets a minimum limit of $10 or $15 with $5000 maximum but you are not allowed to peek at the cards (obviously).
I counted 18 baccarat regular tables and 6 high stakes tables still not sure about that.   

Differently to every other Vegas casino, electronic bac pits having a live dealer were filled almost every day.

Of course no craps, just some black jack tables, one roulette and slots.

The high stakes room was desolately almost empty every day and at least for now you were right on this Al.

The three restaurants there are the most strict chinese oriented restaurants I've ever seen in Vegas for years besides Ping Pang Pong at Gold Coast casino.
You'll have a better probability to get three Dragon bonus bets in a row than eating a hamburger in the casino. No way for the hamburger, sooner or later a positive outcome for the Dragons. 

I don't know if it was just an "opening attitude" but they gave me very huge comps in relation of what I bet on the tables.

Dealers are under the very heterogenous category: some were very obnoxious, prone to always chatting in chinese language with other players and staring at you like you were a perfect stranger. Others were really friendly and having a genuine welcome behaviour toward the players.
Floormen were always friendly though.

In conclusion, Lucky Dragon casino is one of the best Vegas casino to play baccarat considering the low limits, the number of tables, the EZ nature and the comps, but if you'll get hungry and you're not chinese you better go elsewhere...

as. 



   




       

 





 





   

No Midi/Macau style just mini ez bac?

I read something in an industry trade journal about the make up of the investors and owners and guess their aura and food is a strict reflection on them, they are all Chinese with the newer $500k min investment in the USA business endeavor to gain their perm visa or residency status, etc. 

I would be floored if no Midi style bac? 

So there is stadium baccarat?  if so, how many pits of it?  And the limits?? 

Curious, thanks.

[AsymBacGuy]

Hi Al!
Yes, you're totally right about the 500k investing policy! :-)

No, I have seen just EZ bac tables there.

Yes, LD casino offers baccarat stadium with a $5 minimum.
Actually many Vegas casinos have recently added Stadium baccarat, for example Bellagio and Rio with the same limits.

as.

[soxfan]

What os the max bets to go along with the 5$ minimums bet, hey hey?

[AsymBacGuy]

What os the max bets to go along with the 5$ minimums bet, hey hey?

Hi soxfan! It's $5000.

Btw, at live tables I've seen quite of players using your aggressive style and getting goood results.

as.