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[21 Aces]

What would you say is the average duration of a baccarat shoe?

1. Mini with average number of players.
2. Mini with max players (players behind the seated ones).
3. Midi with average number of players.
4. Midi with max players (players behind the seated ones).

In either of these formats, one or a few players can crank up the speed of play by working with the dealers and setting the pace.  Alternatively, segments or an entire shoe can drag on when there are many, many players, etc.

It is important to estimate so that when you go to play, you can set your game plan accordingly.  Thanks.

[alrelax]

Mini and Midi, the average and without major problems.  Right at 2 hours a shoe, 1 hr and 40-45 mins at times.  Most of the time. Each hand is really right at 1.0-1.5 minutes.  The few hands that get sped up and paid within a minute or so, it take a few seconds to reset.  But there is generally always people buying in or cashing out and it takes a few minutes. 

With one or two people and you want the game dealt fast by a skilled dealer, maybe start to finish, no more than 1 hour absolute tops.

As far as the casinos that let people back bet and how many there are, too varied from casino to casino.  I have seen here in the Midwest at a 'Racino' that allows it and that one is extremely busy, the floor and the dealer tell them, every single wager has to be handed to and touched on the table by ONLY the player seated, period or it is all pushed down and the player will not get a second warning--the are super strict on that and they enforce it.  Still only 2 hours a shoe even if full.  The sweep there hands twice across the layout, if no bets are placed by those that try to stick their hands out and say wait--too bad, cards dealt.  Then again there are other places that do whatever the player wants and the pit is 100% fine with letting each dealer run the table.  Those are generally the places that the dealer keeps 100% of their tips or there about.

All a fast game does is benefit the house, IMO.  The way I play, time to think, time to pull down, etc., saves more wagers than attempting to win and get into the fake action.  Again, IMO.

The tables that used to take 3 hours and sometimes more a shoe, was the 14 player/3 dealer tables where the players would deal the cards from the shoe, etc.  Of course there was hand shuffles with new decks that have to be physically opened and washed every shoe, etc.  3-3.5 hours from start to beginning of next shoe. 

[21 Aces]

Thanks.  I haven't kept track at all too well other than to know some shoes take forever when there are a lot of players and bet placement takes quite a while.  Extended squeezing can really add up.  I jump around too much.

[21 Aces]

I ripped on some of the players in this group.  Well... they did go into the active dynamic shoe shuffling convo where the house will determine the precise shuffle AND cut (?) that will counter any and all players that could possible play.

Well.  I like this video from their group a lot?  Why?  Only because it is clearly explained from a presentation standpoint.

HOWEVER, I am posting because unless you are at a slower pace midi or control a table, complex systems/ approaches to play will be hard pressed to implement. It's called the casino dynamic that every player who plays is well aware of.  Pretty much like you start looking over at THAT player or THAT dealer and boom NO MORE BETS.  Try completing a complex system notes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzcuaxECFlY

[alrelax]

All they do is lock themselves into the wrong mind frame by what the do with tracking and putting all their visionary energy into Allegany hereinafter opposite of betting the repeats.  All you will do is push your money back and forth at best.  Then, when the shoe gets super strong you will lose money or you will not beat and miss it,  I see a large amount of people foingvthuscecert time.  Pure waste of your conscious energy, 

[21 Aces]

All they do is lock themselves into the wrong mind frame by what the do with tracking and putting all their visionary energy into Allegany hereinafter opposite of betting the repeats.  All you will do is push your money back and forth at best.  Then, when the shoe gets super strong you will lose money or you will not beat and miss it,  I see a large amount of people foingvthuscecert time.  Pure waste of your conscious energy,

Last night the biggest streak of win went down when everyone at the table was having a blast hardly paying attention or much 'effort'.  That part of the shoe offered it.  Complexity is placing stock in the wrong aspects of the game.

[alrelax]

Exactly,  last night had the first shoe off the night finish with the players high 40's to bankers low 20's with 9 panda events,  players want chop then when it is chop they want repeat. They play all wrong,  exactly the way the casino wants,

[21 Aces]

Tying it into speed of play.  It is so easy to jump around and run away from great opportunity.  One of the great things about midi is that the speed is going to be like slow motion.  I literally have called it on a night, walked to the other area of the house which is another favorite brother and sisters series of tables and watched a hand or two, walked to the other other side of the house to grab a drink, walk backed to the original table and missed 3 hands.

I have to do a much better job of staying in the pocket in an area.  At the time I mentioned last night, the table right next to me ended up exploding and I didn't play it.  If high payouts hit early and hit often it could be a stunning shoe on that aspect.  But yeah, all Bank or all Player type formations are the best.

[alrelax]

You know, and all IMO.  That video with Keith (who I believe is the bald headed real heavy one) is a crock of garbage.  These guys attempt to pass themselves off as some kind of magical baccarat players.  Yet, they are playing mostly main floor stuff and talking about green chips and not getting rated, etc.  As well their website is basically attempting to get everyone to subscribe at $50.00 a month.  $600.00 a year to talk to a bunch of wannabe types that are at best a few hundred dollar hopeful to win type of bac players that seriously all believe in some kind of count betting with a repeat or the opposite stuff----etc., etc.  Seriously off the wall without further thought.  Real baccarat players that are dead on serious would not discuss or drag on and on in a Vegas conference about a good 70-80% of what these guys constantly do. 

I wrote to Keith a while back, he is not interested in anything much except getting people to pay $50.00 a month to unlock the message board of elite--professional and the best of the best baccarat players in the world. 

Stupid stuff--in my opinion.And I have been here and done a bit over the past years.  All of these guys read a book by a system's author and get the baccarat kick as well, some f a bit of experience and they are believing there is magical holy-grails for the discovery. 

[alrelax]

People just don't want to act smart, be smart and apply their knowledge and common sense in a casino--that is all it really boils down to:

There's a sucker born every minute
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase closely associated with P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid-19th century, although there is no evidence that he said it. Early examples of its use are found instead among gamblers and confidence men.


Attribution to Barnum

When Barnum's biographer, Arthur H. Saxon, tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase, he was unable to verify it. According to Saxon, "There's no contemporary account of it, or even any suggestion that the word 'sucker' was used in the derogatory sense in his day. Barnum was just not the type to disparage his patrons."[1]
Photo of P. T. Barnum by Charles Eisenmann

Some sources claim the quote is most likely from famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar Joe") Bessimer,[2] and other sources say it was actually uttered by David Hannum, spoken in reference to Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax.[citation needed] Hannum, who was exhibiting the "original" giant and had unsuccessfully sued Barnum for exhibiting a copy and claiming it was the original, was referring to the crowds continuing to pay to see Barnum's exhibit even after both it and the original had been proven to be fakes.

Another source credits late 1860s Chicago "bounty broker, saloon and gambling-house keeper, eminent politician, and dispenser of cheating privileges..." Michael Cassius McDonald as the originator of the aphorism. According to the book Gem of the Prairie: Chicago Underworld (1940) by Herbert Asbury, when McDonald was equipping his gambling house known as The Store (at Clark and Monroe Streets in Chicago) his partner Harry Lawrence expressed concern over the large number of roulette wheels and faro tables being installed and their ability to get enough players to play the games. McDonald then allegedly said, "Don't worry about that, there's a sucker born every minute."

History

Early uses of the phrase refer to it as a catch-phrase among gamblers. In an 1879 discussion of gambling in Chicago, an "old-timer" is quoted as saying, "[G]oodness knows how they live, it's mighty hard times with the most of them; in the season they make a bit on base ball, or on the races, and then, you know, 'there's a sucker born every minute,' and rigid city legislation drives the hard-up gambler, who would be a decent one of the kind, to turn skin-dealer and sure-thing player."[3] The use of quotation marks indicates that it must already have been an established catch-phrase.

The phrase appears in print in the 1885 biography of confidence man Hungry Joe, The Life of Hungry Joe, King of the Bunco Men.[4][5]

In a slightly different form, the phrase shows up in the January 1806 European Magazine: "It was the observation of one of the tribe of Levi, to whom some person had expressed his astonishment at his being able to sell his damaged and worthless commodities, 'That there vash von fool born every minute.'"[6]

According to David W. Maurer, writing in The Big Con (1940),[7] there was a similar saying amongst con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em." Here "trim" means to steal from, and "knock" means to persuade away from a scam. The meaning is that there is no shortage of new victims, nor of con men, nor of honest men.

In the 1930 John Dos Passos novel The 42nd Parallel, the quotation is attributed to Mark Twain.