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[Sputnik]

Hey Sputnik,

Do you still play this method, and what was the largest draw-down that you have seen?



Thanks! 

Yes i am still testing and now i try Guetting Progression with four loses as stop loss and is Anlantis way.
You see two dozen strike you jump on board they will conintue, sometims i get following results WWWLWLWWWWLWWWLWWLWWLWLWWWLWWWWWWLWLWLWWW pretty good for 300 trails

[TheLaw]

Yes i am still testing and now i try Guetting Progression with four loses as stop loss and is Anlantis way.
You see two dozen strike you jump on board they will conintue, sometims i get following results WWWLWLWWWWLWWWLWWLWWLWLWWWLWWWWWWLWLWLWWW pretty good for 300 trails

Found this gem recently........might be worth a look :

Credit to the great GLC :

"From my experience, using a positive progression where you add 1 after each win and subtract 1 unit after each loss is a losing bet progression.   What Charlie Guetting is trying to do is take advantage of a decent winning series, but not have to give away all our winnings on the way back to 1 unit bets.  That way we can stay in the larger bet numbers so that a really positive run will net us some big wins.  While we're in a losing mode, we will be betting in the 1-2 unit range, then as soon as you move into a winning series, you can start moving up to larger units.  Two losses in a row drops us all the way back to 1 unit so we don't waste a lot of units on a gradual loss pattern.

Examples:
Let's say we have 6 wins in a row and then 6 losses in a row on an even chance bet.

bet 1  Win   +1
bet 1.5  Win  +2.5
bet 2   Win   +4.5
bet 3  Win   +7.5
bet 4   Win   +11.5
bet 6   Win   +17.5
bet 8   Lose  +9.5
bet 1.5  Lose  +8.5
bet 1   Lose  +7.5
bet 1  Lose  +6.5
bet 1  Lose  +5.5
bet 1 Lose  +4.5    So after 6 wins followed by 6 losses, we end up with +4.5 units.

Now standard +1 on a win, -1 on a loss.

bet 1  Win   +1
bet 2   Win   +3
bet 3  Win   +6
bet 4   Win   +10
bet 5   Win   +15
bet 6   Win  +21
bet 7   Lose  +14
bet 6   Lose  +8
bet 5  Lose  +3
bet 4  Lose  -1
bet 3  Lose  -4
bet 2  Lose -6  So, -6 units compared to +4.5.  Quite a difference.

It's just another way of trying to win more units on wins than we lose on losses, but using a positive progression instead of a negative progression.

I don't know if this is any better than a Reverse Labby, but it surely looks like it has merit.

One final point.  This can be adapted to a 3/2 bet also.  That's betting 5 lines at a time.  The chart looks like the following.

First here's what the Guetting chart really is

Level 1   Level 2   Level 3   Level 4
1              1.5         4           10
1              1.5         4           10
                 2          6            15
                 2          6            15
                 3          8            20
                 3          8            20

Any time we lose on the 1st bet of a double, we drop to the 1st bet in the level below where we're betting.
Any time we lose on the 2nd bet of a double, we just step back 1 bet and replay that double.

Here's what the chart for double dozens looks like:

Level 1   Level 2   Level 3   Level 4
1              1.5         4            10
1              1.5         4            10
1              1.5         4            10
1              1.5         4            10
                 2           6            15
                 2           6            15
                 2           6            15
                 2           6            15
                 3           8            20
                 3           8            20
                 3           8            20
                 3           8            20

It's just double the even chance chart.

For 5 lines it would be the following:

Lvl 1   Lvl 2   Lvl 3   Lvl 4
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
1          1.5     4        10
             2      6         15
             2      6         15 
             2      6         15
             2      6         15
etc...

It get's crazy for streets, splits and straight up numbers, but it can be done.

GLC"

[mogul397]

I have resurrected this topic on the other forum.
http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16426.new#new

Trying to figure out exactly how it works still.

Reply #210 here seems direct. But it seems like it's one
of many ways to skin the cat, if I read back to the beginning.

(Way # 28.  Crazy glue and a tooth brush)

[mogul397]

?? is there  Someone .... who  understood that part ??

Yes.

[mogul397]

Hi Gambler,

Sorry to hear that.
Which way did you try? Sputnik's March 1,2 or 3?
Or did you try BEAT-THE-WHEEL'S way?

I am not sure of how to play the third march;  am waiting to hear from BEAT-THE-WHEEL/PA. to tell me about his idea with  my example I showed a few posts back... I am playing cautiously and winning with the second march!

A.

I like this Atlantis.

Can you remind me about the 2nd march?  I get them
confused.

Thanks

[Atlantis]

Hi mogul,

I've not played it for a while...
Basically the method is same as Sputnik's second march with the modifications:

I follow the chop after a complete fully formed single series until loss then stop + bet against "series of one" for ONE TIME ONLY but only if the last two complete series were 2 and 3 in any order...

I commence play when I have 2 complete formed different EC series

series 1 = single EC
series 2 = streak of 2 EC
series 3 = 3 or more streak of same EC

example1
-----------
r
r
b
b
b
r - bet here against it being a series of 1
r - w+1  STOP

example 2
------------
r
r
b
r - last 2 series were 1 and 2 so bet here for chop to continue ie. against series 3
b - w+1
r - w+1
r - L-1  STOP
b
r - last 2 series were 1 and 2 so bet against series of 3
b - w+1
b - L-1 STOP
r
r
r
b - last 2 series were 3 and 2 so bet against series of 1
b - w+1 STOP

r
r
r
b
b
b
b
b
r
r
r
b
r bet against series of 2
r L-1 stop        -1
r
b bet against series of 2
r w+1 bet against series of 2        +0
b w+1 bet against series of 2        +1
b L-1 stop       +0
r bet against series of 3
r L-1 stop        -1
r
r
b bet against series of 1
r L-1  stop       -2
b bet against series of 2
r w+1               -1
b w+1              +0
b L-1  stop       -1
r bet against series of 3
r L-1  stop       -2
b bet against series of 3
b L-1 stop       -3
b
r bet against series of 1
r w+1 stop      -2
b bet against series of 1
b w+1 stop     -1
r bet against series of 1
r w+1 stop     +0
r
b bet against series of 1
b w+1 stop     +1
b
r bet against series of 1
b L-1 stop       +0
r bet against series of 2
r L-1 stop        -1
b bet against series of 3
b L-1 stop        -2
r  bet against series of 3
b w+1              -1       
b L-1  stop       -2
r  bet against series of 3
b w+1              -1
r w+1               +0
b w+1               +1
b L-1 stop        +0
r bet against series of 3
r L-1                -1
r
b bet against series of 1
b w+1 stop     +0
b
r bet against series of 1
r w+1  stop     +1
r
r
r
r
b bet against series of 1
r L-1 stop      +0
b bet against series of 2
r w+1             +1
b w+1            +2
r w+1             +3
b w+1            +4
r w+1            +5
b w+1            +6
r w+1             +7
b w+1            +8
r w+1             +9
r L-1   stop    +8
r
b bet against series of 2                     
r L-1   stop    +7
b bet against series of 2
b L-1  stop     +6
r bet against series of 3
r L-1  stop      +5
b bet against series of 3
b L-1 stop       +4
r  bet against series of 3
r L-1  stop      +3
b bet against series of 3
r w+1              +4
b w+1             +5
b L-1              +4
r bet against series of 3
r L-1               +3
b

A.

PS. Forgot to say after a STOP I wait for next SERIES to completely form before making decision by looking at last 2 complete series!

PPS. When I say "last 2 series" I mean the last 2 different complete series recorded in the history... You may have to go further back than the actual last 2 series (if they are the same) to get the 2 different series required.
For instance even if the last 5 series were 2-2-2-2-3 then the "last 2 series" are 2 and 3 so you look to bet AGAINST series 1 forming...

Best regards,
A.

[mogul397]

What do you think of this response, and methodology.

Is this a "moving target"?

http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16426.new#new

Reply # 45 by Ego. (that's sputnik)

[mogul397]

Atlantis,

How are you playing it?

D'alenbert?

Thanks

[mogul397]

Observation.

It looks like whenever you  have a single with a double or
triple, you are "betting against 2 or 3". What that means is
that you play for a chop.

Second, there are a couple places where you bet for the chop and STOP.
And others where you keep playing the chop.

What is the difference?

[Trbfla]

Is anyone still playing this approach?

[Sputnik]

Is anyone still playing this approach?

Well i develop this further as i learn more about NOR strategy - so the observation is that you get bias states.
If you can not see how the singles and series of two state create winnings and break even results for 3456789 times in a row and beyond that - if you don't see that, then i can't help you.
Same with singles and series of three and higher - they also create winnings and break even results for 3456789 times in a row and beyond that.
And alternating series is same as above with straight winnings.

So no matter what state that strike you get WLWWLWWWLWLWLWWWWLWWLWWLWLWLL and alternating series WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL

The question is what you do between does states and when the results alternate and create three loses LLL

Cheers

[Sputnik]

Observation

One important discovery is that you have three states that strike and become a true bias - but everything lose to something and this states lose when three events alternate with no present bias.
That is three loses LLL

Measuring the bias

Sometimes you can see 25 hits with only two events, for example singles and series of three and higher, then you win and break even for 25 hits and the bias end with two loses.
Bias states come in different length and sometimes 20 to 30% of a baccarat shoe can be hitting with only two events - that is with other words jackpot.
But you also get several small bias states that not last more then 2345 strikes in a row with two events.
So you need to split the shoe into sections and see how the average bias preform.

Predict the future

Every state that has a bias and follow by a new state with a bias are connected with past events that also are part of the future bias state.
For example you have singles and series of two, then you know this state will end with a serie of three or higher, that is conditional facts, and next singles or series of two will also be part of the future state and that is also a conditional fact.

Now to the part how you predict the future knowing what coming next - if the next following state has a bias then it is a conditional fact that at least two event will hit for three times in a row or more.
So with my example above with a bias state with singles and series of two end with a serie of three or higher also will have singles or series of two being part of the future state.
That means if you next have for example a serie of three and one single hitting being part of the future state - then you know that you will have a serie of three or higher or one single as the third event as the minimum bias state is at least three events repeating.

RAP YOUR MIND AROUND THAT

[AsymBacGuy]

As I've already sayed, this is one of the most powerful strategies to be employed at bac tables.

If you dissect the bac outcomes just on three events (singles, doubles, 3+s) you are doing yourself a favor.

You do not want to guess the unguessable every time and no matter what, just to predict some limited sections of the shoe where two events out of three will come out at different degrees and by a degree higher than 75%.

Notice that we are sure that itlr such 75% will be not confirmed by any means, depending on which side we are registering.

as.






 

[alrelax]

Predict the future

Every state that has a bias and follow by a new state with a bias are connected with past events that also are part of the future bias state.

I agree and side with many things you say.  But I have to state, this highlighted statement you made in explicit writing is so far opposite the truth it is blatantly obvious to the more experienced players-that current and future bias's have not bearing on the past one.  However, one exception that might be true and again--might not be.  If it is within the same shoe--that statement might at times hold up.  Might.

As far as saying something that will happen is because of a link to something that did last shoe, two shoes ago, 5 shoes ago or last night within a casino, is so far absurd it is past the funny laughable mark.

[Sputnik]

Well you missunderstand and i can show very clear example that prove my statement - do you think i am a fool - i move from five number bankroll to six number bankroll.
I will show two examples - one with Banker & Player and one with Dozen 1,2,3 with roulette.

The reason i don't use the word conditional probability is that is not true - but it is conditional facts if the next following state has a bias - then the assumption and expectation is dependent upon that.
Ýou can call it a hunch - but there is more bias states then non bias states no matter what perspective you use.

Assume i getting singles and series of three and higher 11351311411811113 that is a bias state and can come in any length.
Assume that state follow by singles and series of two - then the minimum would be any combination with three results with singles and series of two (a present bias for the future state) - for example 112 or 211 or 212 or 221 or 122

When the first state with singles and series of three and higher 11351311411811113 end with a serie of two you have the beginning of a new state.
But the serie of two is not part of the future state - but with this example singles are part of both past and future state.

11351311411811113 - 21 next if that beginning of the new state has a bias we will get a serie of two or a single as the minimum bias state is three events - so we know what coming next based upon our expectation as at least one of both events has to repeat once to become a bias state - then we know indirect the future outcome.

To get more into detail - if you have serie of two and not any second result you just be that the serie of two will repeat once with one single bet - that way if you not win your first bet you force the second event to show and now you know that you will win as one of does two events will repeat once if there is a bias - conditional fact.

The hunch or expectation or guessing or what ever you like to call it - is based upon the assumption that a bias state will be follow by a new bias state and as there is more bias states then no bias states so is the strike ratio tight and high.

Cheers