Without a link, I will post some of the highlights.....I think it is 'hugely pertinent' to systems and everything else that falls under, 'For sale....riches at the casino for only $49.99', etc. Whatever price, doesn't work, can't and will not in the science it is conveyed to function. Throw them all in there, the systems, the methods, the personal trainers, all of them.
Anything and absolute everything from straight loss to straight win---can and will happen in the short term play period. What is short term? 30 Minuets, 2 Hours or a few shoes??? Varies, no control./ But one thing for 100% certain, the longer you play, will always be detrimental to yourself and your buy-in. Always, always, always. The longer you play the greater you are increasing the odds that the house edge will excel and inflict you with multiple and continues losses. Hence--everything the casino is set-up and operates under to keep you at the tables or the machines. (I am not getting into those here, enough already written and published about those tactics, etc.) This is about systems and the Holy Grail that fools fall prey to.
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" $30,000 Betting System Challenge
Eight years and counting without a taker
(started April 2008)
Last update: October 2016
Any betting system that promises to make you a winner is a scam, and I'm so confident about this that I'm putting my money where my mouth is: I'll wager $30,000 against any system seller's $3,000 that their betting system can't beat the house. (Or I'll wager my $10,000 against their $1,000, if they prefer.) My goal is to show that anyone selling a "winning system" on the Internet for $29.95 (or whatever) is nothing more than a fraudster. Tellingly, not a single one of them has ever put their system to the test with me. The reason is simple: They know their systems don't actually work.
I hope it's also obvious to everyone that if someone had truly figured out a way to beat the house, why would they need to sell that secret for $29.95?
Years ago the Wizard of Odds used to offer a similar challenge, but after many years he had only one legitimate taker. (The challenger lost, of course.) The Wizard eventually stopped offering the challenge because almost nobody ever went through with it and it was a waste of time dealing with inquiries that went nowhere. So I picked up where he left off and offering a similar challenge myself, but the results have been similar—despite lots of inquiries nobody's actually gone through with it. And pointedly, none of the inquiries have come from system sellers, they're from people who just think they've invented a winning betting system.
Of course, if anyone figured out a way to win and wasn't selling their system to the public, they could just play in the casino themselves, and have no need to try to win my $30k. I'm 100% confident that no such system actually exists, but there's no way for me to prove it, because anyone who actually had such a system wouldn't take my challenge. But I can prove that systems being sold to the public are junk, because anyone willing to part with his system for $29.95 (or whataver) should be falling all over themselves to try to win my $30k. The fact that not even one system-seller has even tried to win my $30k proves my point: Any system that you can buy is garbage.
The challenge is actually available to anyone, whether their system is being sold to the public or not. While those not selling their systems would be expected to just employ their systems in the casino rather than going the challenge route, some would-be challengers thought that it would be quicker to win the $30k from me through the challenge than to win it in the casino. (They all backed out, though.) So the challenge is available to anyone, as long as they agree to my very generous terms.
In addition, I offer a $1000 prize to anyone who finds an exploitable flaw in my challenge that could result in someone beating it. That is, you don't have to put up any of your own money to get the $1000. See the details below.
So, here are the terms of my challenge.
Bluejay's $30,000 challenge
1.The Challenge. I will wager my $30,000 against your $3,000 (or my $10,000 against your $1,000, if you prefer) that your betting system cannot beat a game of roulette, baccarat, or craps, as the player, using common Vegas rules, starting with a generous $5000 bankroll (play money, not real money), in a computer simulation, as per the additional terms below. "
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I simply love the following paragraph and it is so true, so vivid and so real that it speaks volumes for itself.
Put your money where your mouth is and sell that system without doubt. Every system seller would do this if the seller had a viable product. Why not, free money--fame--glory and like the boxer that knocked out the champ--INSTANT SUCCESS, rock solid 1,000,000%, so on as so forth.
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" No one has ever accepted this challenge
One reader said that a system-seller claimed to have beaten my challenge (or perhaps the Wizard's challenge, he wasn't clear). Let me be clear: no one has ever even accepted my challenge, let alone beaten it. And the one person who accepted the Wizard's challenge (back when he offered it), lost it readily. Anyone who claims they've beaten my challenge should show you the alleged contract we signed, listing the supposed escrow agent, allowing you to verify whether any challenge really took place. "
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I have watched people come and go from the casinos, multiple casinos in numerous states. All with their play the cut, wait until the 3rd or 4th repeat and then wager heavy on the other side, wait for this or that. Do this or that. Etc., etc., and so on. Sorry people, doesn't work like that.
But I do like the way this guy has been openly addressing systems for sale on the internet. I really like it a lot.
BTW: I am not making fun of or picking at anyone on here that might have purchased a 'system', 'training' or anything of the likes, I am simply stating fact and religion in 'real' gambling. Not to make a fool out of anyone, I guess in attempts to stop a gullible potential victim and maybe he/she can think before handing over their $$$. That's all, thanks, and all IMO, of course!
LOL!
The Dark Wizard and his Black Riders also advise on betting only on Bank and that baccarat requires no skill. Furthermore, their _hit house is firm believer in THE LONG RUN for it is the Dark Wizard and his Black Riders who will determine when they have seen enough of your win. The Dark Wizard most likely has played very little and with very little money ever. He is not a player.
What about his own bro advice? Bet on Bank only. Sounds like a winning system to me.
Quote from: 21 Aces on January 07, 2017, 12:32:03 AM
What about his own bro advice? Bet on Bank only. Sounds like a winning system to me.
No commenting on advice, advice is subjective.
I was bringing out this point:
....."No one has ever accepted this challenge"......
I always like to draw analogies of baccarat playing with the harsh realities of business. And I find it amusing that there are so many discussions and assertions that the game cannot be beat in the long term. Stories of how a particular gamer having won consistently over many years was finally wiped out by a series of losses. It is so schadenfreude.
Truth be told, in business as in baccarat, one has to be able to plan and adapt consistently. Or fail in the long run. Successful businesses have also failed in the long run because of failure to adapt. Nokia comes to mind. Big investment banks like Lehmann Brothers also collapsed. Chrysler was bailed out. So many examples. Smaller obscure firms fail by the hundreds of thousands after 3, 5, 10, 20 years when they fail to adept and cope with changing situations.
Going by the same argument, if we say businesses are likely to fail in the long run, don't ever start a business? Just like we argue for baccarat cannot be beat in the long term.
Someone did say on this forum that many have lost millions or hundreds of thousands trying to prove that the game can be beat. I am one of them. 😔😔. But I remain certain that there are criteria to develop 'The Perfect Gambler'. That will now be the title of my book under development (actually, REdevelopment! Because it must be validated by results which has been difficult). The Perfect Gambler must win most of the time or every time he visits the casino. And more importantly, the Perfect Gambler must be in control of the time he spends in the casino. He leaves on time every time or even earlier; he never misses an appointment because of his casino sessions.
Lung, I know where you are coming from. It is truly all in perspective in gaming as well as business. I have done both to the extreme and I know you have as well from our board discussions as well as our other off-board ones. So many analogies and so close in nature.
The word 'beat' is used easily by so many with different meaning from equally as many. Beat to some will mean employing a system of some type repeatedly and taking the casino down for unlimited amounts of profit whenever we play. And, yet to others the word beat may mean, possessing a few key-triggers and employing extreme willpower and patience and being able to win $300 or $500 almost every single time they go tot he casino.
Even the term/title, 'The Perfect Gambler' can be construed by two gamblers as two different things. And hence the point I tried to make that apparently failed within my topic, "On-line gaming Vs. Casino gaming" with the point of bringing out where the member that does one or the other, comes from within their writings and answers on the board here.
Lungyeh, can't wait to read your book.
How does anyone feel about a martingale progression to the 10th hand? any possibility this could work?
Quote from: brokerny on January 07, 2017, 09:00:34 PM
How does anyone feel about a martingale progression to the 10th hand? any possibility this could work?
Are you insane?
Lets start at a dollar bet ok.
1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
You lose the 10th, your out 1k and if your playing 1 dollar a hand, forget it, you won't sleep or eat for days....
Forget the martingale. And if you play bigger limits its even more unrealistic for 2 reasons. Bankroll and table limits....
A 10 STEP MARTINGALE PROGRESSION!!!!!!!!!!!........ LOL NO NO NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!........ LOL Honestly I ONLY use a 3 step progression!! 1-2-4 ... think about it, you need to at least be able to recovery it!!.... I don't mind being -7 ...Its simple to recover!!.... do you use any Virtual betting Marinetech?
I mean brokerny??
Quote from: Qswaggerstupid18 on January 07, 2017, 09:38:49 PM
A 10 STEP MARTINGALE PROGRESSION!!!!!!!!!!!........ LOL NO NO NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!........ LOL Honestly I ONLY use a 3 step progression!! 1-2-4 ... think about it, you need to at least be able to recovery it!!.... I don't mind being -7 ...Its simple to recover!!.... do you use any Virtual betting Marinetech?
No, I will sit on my hands and see what's going on. I don't use a system, I go with what the board is doing. If I see X amount of singles or doubles coming in, I play for them. If I see a line with x amount of Players or banks, I will play that when that line comes up again. that's all, No magic because doesn't help at all. I just try not to overthink it but even so, you still get buzzsawed to death at times.....
that's why its called gambling.......
Ref 10 hands:
Las Vegas, Mid strip usually limits are $100 to $10k or $200/$300 min to $15k or $300/$500 to $20/$25k.
$100
$200
$400
$800
$1600
$3200
$6400
most tables you are maxed out on the 7th hand and risk huge money to make 1 unit of $100 or something.
other off strip properties can be $10 to $2,0000 or $25 to $3k or $5k depending on property, could also be $50 to $5k.
Most players will do 3, maybe 4 progressions at times. It is the single most common way to hurt, hurt real bad.
You cats need to get out more.
hi brokerny, i recall you told us about your bacc personal trainer you have been trained by, and how you played a shoe with him in vegas,
and that he has not lost in over 2yrs, then you ask 'could a 10step marty work', sorry im confused ?.
Quote from: 21 Aces on January 07, 2017, 10:30:37 PM
You cats need to get out more.
Are you going to start ending your sentences with repeating words now?
This guy plonked down on the seat next to me at Marina Bay Sands last week. Had S$100,000. Started out betting S$300, S$500 small bets. I was watching this unassuming guy in total control. Well if you are betting less than S$1,000 on a S$100,000 bankroll, I was assuming this guy is a sure winner. Then he thought a good chance came. Raised his bet to S$3000. Win. Then lost 2-3 bets at S$3,000. Bet S$5,000. Lost. Bet S$15,000. Lost. Bet S$25,000 lost. Bet S$55,000. Busted. Then a long 11 player dragon came....
Quote from: Lungyeh on January 07, 2017, 10:41:20 PM
This guy plonked down on the seat next to me at Marina Bay Sands last week. Had S$100,000. Started out betting S$300, S$500 small bets. I was watching this unassuming guy in total control. Well if you are betting less than S$1,000 on a S$100,000 bankroll, I was assuming this guy is a sure winner. Then he thought a good chance came. Raised his bet to S$3000. Win. Then lost 2-3 bets at S$3,000. Bet S$5,000. Lost. Bet S$15,000. Lost. Bet S$25,000 lost. Bet S$55,000. Busted. Then a long 11 player dragon came....
I try not even to bring it up any longer except occasionally when I get long winded. Bac today is not like the old school bac prior to 2000 or so. The tables would have cleaned house with everyone wagering huge after the 4th or 5th repeat, but it is what it is!
Saw a 14 repeating Player with2 or 3 ties also in it last week. Almost everyone got wiped, not $100k bankrolls, this is a casino with a $2k max, $10min-$2k max. Several lost $10k or more. Seriously, I cannot remember this happening prior to 2000. Sure a sporadic player would switch sides for 1 or 2 wagers or stop wagering, but not the repeated progressions until they won their one unit.
Maybe I was not clear enough. The guy lost on the 'jumping' results section of the shoe. The 'Shar Chi' or 'Death Watch' section where results are totally random and will 'kill' those Martingale advocates.
When the 'dragon' came, he had no more capital....
don't know about the US but in Asia, nobody but nobody cuts a potential long dragon run. At best you just don't bet the cut. Sit it out.
I understood what you meant, was just comparing it to the cut, and that not only happens like you said, but also the cut on the dragon repeating streaks which never used to really happen here. But most certainly does today.
Quote from: alrelax on January 07, 2017, 10:38:51 PM
Are you going to start ending your sentences with repeating words now?
Yes -haha. Well, many here posting need to really check with management because regular tables serious 5 figures on a single bet should not be a concern. Or.... get out more or move. Not that I have this type of money - just saying.
I don't have a mechanical system that I stick to, I rely on the Gods to tell me how to play. Do you think this guy will let me take the challenge?
Given this:
Any betting system that promises to make you a winner is a scam, and I'm so confident about this that I'm putting my money where my mouth is: I'll wager $30,000 against any system seller's $3,000 that their betting system can't beat the house. (Or I'll wager my $10,000 against their $1,000, if they prefer.) My goal is to show that anyone selling a "winning system" on the Internet for $29.95 (or whatever) is nothing more than a fraudster. Tellingly, not a single one of them has ever put their system to the test with me. The reason is simple: They know their systems don't actually work.
How does the Dark Wizard and his Black Riders OWN ADVICE of betting only on Bank not qualify as a system? After all, that is what they advise.
Is he selling a system?
Advice is advice, there are tons of sections on various websites relating to Vegas and gambling where people do fill-ins and talk, etc. Bac, BJ, Poker, Slots, etc., you see them, a page or two with a couple of paragraphs on each. I never really read them, once and a while go on a few of the bigger websites like 'VEGAS.COM' to scan the headline shows or other casino entertainment or even off-property attractions. I can perfectly see the reason they are there, just for an overview of the games, etc.
I have seen referrals made to this offer in various written articles of a serious nature in gaming trade journals, I believe it is a serious offer and I think one of the basics that start the guys website.
QuoteHow does the Dark Wizard and his Black Riders OWN ADVICE of betting only on Bank not qualify as a system? After all, that is what they advise.
QuoteIs he selling a system?
Those who gives you poison to drink for free are lesser guilty than those who are asking for a price for that? Forums, gambling books are filled with such poisonous ideas and it is not a noble task if someone gives poison for free. Poison is poison.
Quote from: alrelax on January 08, 2017, 08:32:50 AM
Is he selling a system?
Advice is advice, there are tons of sections on various websites relating to Vegas and gambling where people do fill-ins and talk, etc. Bac, BJ, Poker, Slots, etc., you see them, a page or two with a couple of paragraphs on each. I never really read them, once and a while go on a few of the bigger websites like 'VEGAS.COM' to scan the headline shows or other casino entertainment or even off-property attractions. I can perfectly see the reason they are there, just for an overview of the games, etc.
I have seen referrals made to this offer in various written articles of a serious nature in gaming trade journals, I believe it is a serious offer and I think one of the basics that start the guys website.
Yes. He has two books for sale that are guides to gambling.
Quote from: Albalaha on January 08, 2017, 10:32:53 AM
Those who gives you poison to drink for free are lesser guilty than those who are asking for a price for that? Forums, gambling books are filled with such poisonous ideas and it is not a noble task if someone gives poison for free. Poison is poison.
You are correct but taking it to the extreme, IMO. The world has always been filled with this.
From posters in the movie theater lobby with their popcorn, hotdogs and candy that costs 8 to 10 times as much as an over priced gas station convenience store and generally worth less that those! To the carnival, with some great rides and some great (OMG, gut busting eat until you puke) food and then they have the imposters and the failures all mixed in because they do not discriminate and need the vendor entrance and booth fees, etc.
Then there are the races, Nascar and everything down to the Midwest, 'bump and run' cars in the mud and dirt kinda hit the guy and try to disable him. Last one that survives wins the race. Anyway, there are dogs and the real players. In their business, most or owners of auto related businesses or workers that work at an auto related business and they sponsor him. Some of those businesses sell the best stuff, give great discounts and advise etc. Yet, other ones are really bad, dangerous advise and they only participate because they think the crowd will flock to their store or business and they will profit, directly and quickly for their worthless offers, etc.
The list can go on. Maybe I read too much into your answers, still respect the conversation but the innuendoes at times is what gets to me.
There are all kinds of 'poison for free' is all kinds of advertising and most of the time, that is exactly what it is.
I believe one who is gambling is not a kid but a person of maturity. If he choses to kill himself or gamble on buying systems too, that is his prerogative. Sad thing about systems or training is that seller usually gives an aggregated image of what he has and tries to sell garbage knowingly.
alrelax, and sorry. I am just very frustrated right now as I have a streak of few high payout bet wins and a massive disparity between my win back play and out of the gates play.
i was just bringing that up to see the reactions. if someone were to do 10 or even just 9 progression, you can only safely have a $50 starting bet. most big casinos has 15k-20k max. i would never chase a player or a banker and do a progression, but what if there was a certain type of setup of betting and than trying the progression? just brainstorming here.
21 Aces,
If I am reading and translating your 'problem' correctly, my after-win money is now governed by my 1/3rd MM agenda, serves me extremely well.
Quote from: brokerny on January 08, 2017, 04:02:25 PM
i was just bringing that up to see the reactions. if someone were to do 10 or even just 9 progression, you can only safely have a $50 starting bet. most big casinos has 15k-20k max. i would never chase a player or a banker and do a progression, but what if there was a certain type of setup of betting and than trying the progression? just brainstorming here.
In Vegas and some other larger gambling jurisdictions, pretty much solid table limits are $100min/$10k max. Most (I said most) of the $15k/20 and $25k max tables are going to have a $200 or $300 or even a $500 min. Not a $50.00 min.
At a $50.00 min, you generally won't get past a 6th progression for $3,200.00 wager within most of the $50.00 min tables which should have a $5k max. There might be some exceptions???
As far as the theory and wagering/risking well over $6,000 to win one unit of $50.00 it is insane, a great way to go bust. I am not saying no more, I feel like this discussing oil changes and the theory of using regular motor oil versus full synthetic with my 4 year old boy.
forget the progression than. that's why i hate vegas. not all the big name casinos have smaller limit like $15. majority of the east coast have $15 or $20 min and max are usually 15K(NJ and CT and even PA)
I ONLY win 7% - 8% of my bankroll a day!!!.... picture building your bankroll up too 60k and winning 7%- 8% of your bankroll a day!... I don't KNOW ABOUT YOU, but that's life changing money for me!!..... I rather do that by HITTING & RUNNING!!!... then playing 3- 5 hours a day with a smaller bankroll, TO WIN what I'll be winning if I had a larger bankroll.... TIME IS MONEY!!...... ( little food for thought ) :thumbsup:
Quote from: 21 Aces on January 08, 2017, 07:51:08 AM
How does the Dark Wizard and his Black Riders OWN ADVICE of betting only on Bank not qualify as a system? After all, that is what they advise.
Betting only on bank is a system. Only he doesn't say it will give you positive cash flow, it will just lose the least amount of money over time; possibly leaving you money to buy a meal with at the end of your session.
I can improve on his system too, it's only for commission baccarat. In the other form where banker 6 pays 1/2, you should bet player.
Quote from: Lungyeh on January 07, 2017, 09:49:09 AM
But I remain certain that there are criteria to develop 'The Perfect Gambler'. That will now be the title of my book under development (actually, REdevelopment! Because it must be validated by results which has been difficult). The Perfect Gambler must win most of the time or every time he visits the casino. And more importantly, the Perfect Gambler must be in control of the time he spends in the casino. He leaves on time every time or even earlier; he never misses an appointment because of his casino sessions.
I look forward to reading yer book, hey hey.
Browsing the internet, i stumbled onto another crazy system. www(.)baccarattraining(.)xom. anyone seen this? he charges either $5501 or $7503 and he even accepts bitcoin lol.
I was curious, so I went on a self-proclaimed expert's website and found the following 'copy and pasted' info as to why this system/trainer is the absolute expert on baccarat and justifies charging thousands of dollars to 'train' you. I have not had a great laugh like this for a while. Just took a sip of hot coffee as I started to read this pure riff-raft/dribble and the darn coffee came out of my nose!
This is all bar room and internet talk. I have never had a pit boss wanting to talk that I didn't strike up a conversation with and if he did, just freaking ignore him, what's the big deal???
The following is just a tad bit, there is tons more, even if true, all second nature and in no way lending credence to his profiting claims, none.
COPY and PASTED:
"In another blog post, I will cover some other topics related to playing at the professional level but the focus of this article is how to overcome distractions.
Most of you who have been in the casino more than a few times realize that the casino does everything it can to break your focus and distract you from playing "your game."
"The obvious sources are the attractive cocktail/drink waitresses, and the noise generated by the omnipresent slot machines.
Regular loud PA announcements when there is a slot tournament that day ad to the din (why did I pick this time to come?).
There are some less obvious distractions the casino uses also.
Many times when I am playing – and winning – a nice pit boss will approach me and ask an innocent question about my unique custom designed baccarat score card".
Unquote.
He then goes into dialog about the people talking or yelling a foreign language into your ear and distracting you, the smokers and them blowing smoke into your face, etc. Hell, I can compare playing baccarat (if professional) to the many hazards of working on the highway, or the inner-city, or working in a busy restaurant.
Quote from: brokerny on January 22, 2017, 05:22:41 PM
Browsing the internet, i stumbled onto another crazy system. www(.)baccarattraining(.)xom. anyone seen this? he charges either $5501 or $7503 and he even accepts bitcoin lol.
I didn't allow javascript at that website, which basically tells you how much I trusted them.