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[HunchBacShrimp]

First, I consider myself a five dollar player. I'd like to increase my base unit size but I've run into a problem quarter bettors and high rollers don't have. My very first increase in unit size is DOUBLE. And when you are at the bottom, double is quite a bit. Now at the quarter level, you could do a 20% increase for a $30 bet. And pretty much not make much of an adjustment at all to stay in your comfort zone. But for me, and any five dollar bettor, the first step is a 100% increase. Tough to wrap my head around so I can stay comfortable.


Second, I talk of units. And a 20u win goal. This is somewhat misleading. Something I've been aware of but hadn't fully caught my attention until I tried to raise my unit size. Typically, I open with a 3u bet, and no longer make 1u wagers, even if I'm on a $5 table. I still try and win 20u. But in reality, it is closer to 7u. 7 x my 3u base bet.

When I considered doubling my BR and unit size I'm looking at opening with a $30 bet. That's 6 of what I consider my units. Not the 2u bet I was thinking about, that I obviously wasn't thinking about too closely. So apparently, I have already inadvertently increased my unit size without increasing my buy in. My buy in has shrunk from 80u to about 27u without me realizing it.

I'd like to increase my win goal to 40 base units, but it appears my comfort zone is holding me back. I've reverse engineered my buy in for twenty seven $25 units. Open with a 5 base unit bet and follow up with a 3 instead of the 3/2 I've been playing. Adjust my win goal to about 30 or so base units. This is my present strategy to prepare my psyche to build a comfort zone of larger units.

Has anyone else had difficulty doubling there unit size? And if so, what methods do you use to overcome this mental barricade?


HBS

[Gizmotron]

I have, and can relate to your expression of a comfort zone. I acquired my comfort zone from starting from $200 @ $5 flat betting rates. I went from staunch flat betting to two levels of flat betting, where $5 was the table minimum bet and $15 was the higher bet when things were doing good. That's when I began to play better too. So my bankroll of comfort increased to $500 per session to give me enough room to maneuver with those higher bets.

That's when I began to analyze what it was that made me comfortable. I didn't mind descending a few hundred dollars while waiting for win streaks. I knew from experience that I would rapidly rise above a steady grind downward soon enough before reaching bottom. I almost always rise above my starting point this way, especially when using the higher bets during win streaks.

So I've spent the last few years perfecting a method to keep me from descending too far. It has resulted in a narrower comfort zone, a smaller bankroll. Given that that latest playing style is achievable, I would recommend working on being comfortable while not descending too deeply as a way to first narrow your comfort zone then to take that and then increase your range of bets.

Does that make sense?

[HunchBacShrimp]

I have, and can relate to your expression of a comfort zone. I acquired my comfort zone from starting from $200 @ $5 flat betting rates. I went from staunch flat betting to two levels of flat betting, where $5 was the table minimum bet and $15 was the higher bet when things were doing good. That's when I began to play better too. So my bankroll of comfort increased to $500 per session to give me enough room to maneuver with those higher bets.

That's when I began to analyze what it was that made me comfortable. I didn't mind descending a few hundred dollars while waiting for win streaks. I knew from experience that I would rapidly rise above a steady grind downward soon enough before reaching bottom. I almost always rise above my starting point this way, especially when using the higher bets during win streaks.

So I've spent the last few years perfecting a method to keep me from descending too far. It has resulted in a narrower comfort zone, a smaller bankroll. Given that that latest playing style is achievable, I would recommend working on being comfortable while not descending too deeply as a way to first narrow your comfort zone then to take that and then increase your range of bets.

Does that make sense?

yeah, but its not very nice 

I have to pick up a method you spent a few years perfecting to reduce my draw downs so I can increase my unit size but not my buy in and still be inside my present comfort zone? 

I like what you said about a 20% increase in your buy in so you could maneuver with some larger bets. I may separate a particular bet selection for a larger bet and keep the other selection(s) at their present levels. I can maintain my present buy in or increase it by 1/3.

As much as I like win streaks, I don't always, can't really, count on them. Even though I'm a streak bettor, I use a parlay as a decent recovery tool. This also helps in keeping my required buy in down. As long as it works of course.

HBS

[soxfan]

Years back I was playin to win just three units per day. And with that style my base unit was on purple chip or 500$. My worst drawdown was 27 unit from peaks to troughs and my lifetime bankroll was 100 unit. My current style of play my base unit bet is 15$, my first bet in my progression ladder is 2 unit and my lifetime bankroll is 1800 unit. So, everything is relative, and the key, for me, is having a large enough bankroll to give you the financial and psychological cushion to deal with losing session and/or progressions bustouts, hey hey.

[HunchBacShrimp]

My original BR from several years ago was 600u. I figured that was an adequate amount to keep me going for some time, and allow me a fair amount of BR depth to attempt to recovery prior losses. The first year started off pretty smooth, 20u buy ins, betting every hand, using a parlay here and there and winning 10 to 20u. I got up nearly 100u, and then the casino taught me few lessons I'm glad to have learned at the $5 level.

Eventually, found myself down about 100u. And determined that if ever I got behind 500u, I likely had no chance to recover with the final 100u. Didn't want to be the fool that gradually lost 500u and thought that 100u more would do the trick. I should recognize the steady downward trend and do the smart thing and not donate another 100u. Or worse allow my self to fall victim to the addiction of hope, and hit it again with another 600u. (or more)

Over time, I've increased my buy in, but kept that same win goal. Psychologically, it didn't bother me to drop a couple hundred bucks in a rare bust out. I often make that much with a single days work, not all the time, but enough that the amount didn't affect me. Unknowingly, this was a crutch. I did find myself much deeper than an overall 100u draw down but still less than 500u.

Now my buy in is approaching several days work, which tend not to be consecutive, so I'm looking at a weeks pay at times, other times only half a week, and rarely two weeks. This is where the crutch has hurt me, the buy in against my overall career BR is negligible. And that is the perspective I should have. But I've been bit before.

So there is some fear here, not in the money itself, losing it has zero impact on my finances. It's the units. I don't want to give back what I've so painstakingly accumulated. Certainly not more, even if I still manage to limit my career draw down to less than 500u. I don't think I'll have the mental fortitude to once again wage this war from a deficit. There is some entertainment value, but not much.

I think you are telling me to find confidence in my career BR. And Gizmotron is telling me to have confidence in my MM (as long as I execute one with competence.)

This is good advice. I appreciate both of you sharing your experiences with me. I will work on changing my perspective to concentrate on my overall career BR, and just pick one bet to use an inflated betting unit on so as not to instantly double the stress on my career BR or session buy in.

Comforting to know you recovered from a 27u draw down at the purple chip level.

Thanks,

HBS

[Jimske]

Soxfan comeback from 27 units at purple chip doesn't give me any consolation!     I still sweat small losses.  In theory I can easily double or triple my base unit size which is mostly $15 and sometimes $25.  But I don't.  The reason is my psychological comfort level.  Chips are still $ to me and I don't like the idea of having to potentially lose a certain amount.  Much prefer walking with even $5 - which sometimes I do when things aren't going anywhere.

I know that if I increase my base bet to much more than $25 I am bound to lose more money than I want to in a session.  I'm only playing 3 or 4 shoes max a visit.  So I, like HBS I think, relate my win goals to a "normal" days pay when I work which is not that often anymore.  So after a couple shoes I have a "that isn't bad for 2 hours work I think I'll go home now" attitude.

Part of that is I'm not playing for a living and can play any time I want. 

[soxfan]

Of course, the comfort zone is an individual thing for cats. But for me I look at everything, the win, the loss in terms of my lifetime bankroll. A progression bustout clips me for just under 10 percents of my lifetime roll and my average daily profit is equal to jjust over 3 percents of that lifetime bankroll, hey hey.