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[alrelax]

Erroneous info exists on another thread and when someone with some type of experience as well as 'longevity' here, answers and then is not answered by the posters coupled with another member coming on and agreeing with the false stats with seemingly some unknown purpose, etc., I feel the need to state what the facts of the game are concerning Banker-Player and Tie stats per shoe. Members and readers of this board might come across that and then base their real-life decisions on something that someone was putting out there possibly for some other reasons.   

I would not have done this post as I always thought everyone on a board like this would have known them.  But anyway here they are.

Average per shoe per established stats on the game of baccarat.  (PLEASE, understand, that there are numerous shoes that will deviate from the below, could be 12 shoes out of 13 in a night or might only be 1 out of those 13 shoes.  These are the stats converted to hands.)

Banker 36 Hands per shoe, 'Established' stat 0.458653.  I would suggest for those that want to know how I arrived at 36 banker hands, multiply 0.458653 X 80.

Player 35 Hands per shoe, 'Established' stat 0.446279.  I would suggest for those that want to know how I arrived at 35 player hands, multiply 0.446279 X 80.

Ties 7-8 per shoe, 'Established' stat 0.095069.  I would suggest for those that want to know how I arrived at 7-8 ties, multiply 0.095069 X 80.

78-79 Hands.  Most 8 deck games, depending on the positioning of the end stop card and if the dealer does one or two hands extra, usually falls between 78 and 83.

The erroneous information posted on this board was 87 hands as a tally for the total.  Also posted was an average of 5 ties per shoe.  As well as the number of Banker and Player winning hands.  That was clearly wrong coupled with false information.  I wanted to post this so others that read and adhere the info on this board is getting the correct information.  Those stats are clearly wrong.

Those stats were obviously changed and/or misinterpreted as they were clearly posted on this board, were derived from the Wizard of Odds, as the poster claimed.  It is also interesting, you can go to the Wizard of Odds website and look at tens of thousands of shoes played out.  Please go look, here is the link:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/basics

Go down to the red words, 'simulation (1-10)' and count the number of ties in various shoes.

I hope those that read to learn and read to gain some understanding of something, challenges the stats and results, so they can base their own decisions on what to do with correct info and data.   

Remember:  The established stats for baccarat hands, are averaged over tens of thousands or millions of shoes, depending on where one might gather his stats from.  Regardless, they are pretty close with the end numbers causing not even a + or - one hand difference from stat author to stat author.  However, any number of shoes in baccarat can have a totally lopsided total such as 50 Bankers and 20 Players and 10 Ties or any other possible combination.  All the stats mean, is taking one million shoes you will average those numbers.  Playing in a casino will not necessarily reflect those numbers, and then again, they might.  Period.  

[mb201333]

I think there was a post started asking about  average Ties numbers.  Anyone trying to use these average
numbers need be  very  cautious.      It is very common for the new dealer to take a seat and everyone
says new dealer  tie.   The other day I heard a dealer say there has been almost 40  hands and no Tie.
She announced to the table  " You should all be betting  tie because there are always 7 or 8 ties in
every shoe."    At the end of the shoe there was  2  ties.   The next shoe  had 1  tie.

I saw lots of players lose money they were not even accounting for chasing the Tie when the Tie was
just not there.  It seems,  once someone starts to chase the big  payouts ,  they can't seem to stop chasing.

I also hear people say the player has to come back because Banker is too far ahead.  The other side
of that coin is the Banker is just strong in that shoe.

Be careful when you hear somethng has to happen!!!   

[alrelax]

My post was strictly about stats and being sure that correct info was posted.

However, as you brought up, many of us have previously and numerous threads about exactly the same things you said.  It happens and happens frequently.  I have seen both sides, were the info/talk turned out to happen with a couple or a few hands and then nothing. 

I believe I posted in my 'Blog' about 7 whole shoes with no Fortune 7's.  7!  I have seen less, never 7 during one night and straight, consecutively that is.  I have seen 1 shoe in 35 years with zero-no ties.  I have seen a few with 1 or 2 ties, rare, happens, but not often.  I have seen as many as the low 20's as well, once again rare-but one in a while. 

Ties?  Quite frequently I see no ties for 30 or 40 hands and then Boom, 4 or 6 or 8 within the next 20 hands.

The 'new dealer tie'.  That has been going on for years and years.  I remember back in Atlantic City, that was pretty much a gospel wager at all the large 14 player/3 dealer tables.  At the place I play at locally, I pretty much got everyone saying, 'new dealer Fortune 7'.  And, for some of the dealers, they will make that Fortune 7 within the first 3 hands when they first come in the game, for a while--then they don't do it any longer.  Like I said, anything and everything. 

We can keep going, everything and anything will happen, it is just that simple. But there is one thing that will not religiously happen and I guarantee it 100%, that is--every shoe will not equal the established stats of the game, shoe after shoe after shoe after shoe.