08 [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?

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Offline Vic

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[COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
« on: December 14, 2014, 12:56:44 am »
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  • Let's discuss:

    What constitutes "hinting" by a member?

    It is specifically vetoed in our rule #7. Let's see if there exists concurrence on what is considered hinting among our members.



    We are malleable and always try to adapt our wording and expectations to actual accepted consensus since we have fellow members in mind. A rule doesn't mean much if it means different things to different members. Let's have this healthy discussion on hinting, with our goal pointed towards reaching a stable consensus to achieve harmony with this current issue at hand.

    Vic

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    Offline Albalaha

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 03:27:05 am »
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  • Hinting should mean, pushing towards a sales pitch either by expressed words, "come to me and pay me $99 for this" or putting a link of a sales page. I have even seen many links of such pages, even by Esoito, where he carefully suggested that he merely wants to showcase a system on sale and various claims. He is not an affilliate. There can be no hue and cry against such things. Do not allow affiliate links.
                 We are all adults here talking about a purely adult topic, "gambling". Except direct call for buying something ( so far I remember, Kimo Li, Martin Blackey, Iplayforaliving and many more were allowed to keep links having sell of systems) or spamming emails and PMs or providing direct clickable links of sales pages, nothing else should be treated as hinting. Newbie members should be disabled to post any clickable link till they post atleast 50 posts. As I said, these rules were never enforced properly.
                 A rule should be clear, unambiguous and logical. If there are exceptions, that should be clearly mentioned too. For the sake of total transparency, even illustrations can be provided. I drafted the rules regarding copyrights violations in Stef's forum quoting international law, that was adopted here by Victor too, instantly.
                 If you need any help of mine in drafting appropriate and unambiguous and logical rules that confirms to various international laws, I can help to the best of my capacity.
    Regards
    Email: earnsumit@gmail.com - VIsit my blog: http://albalaha.lefora.com

    Offline Sputnik

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 08:58:25 am »
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  •  # Hiting mean that some brag about how good he is or what good method he has with out showing any example.

    For example a guy who talks down to others methods and in the same time claim he know better ways with out showing any example.

     # Put up or shut up.

    Cheers

    Offline esoito

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 09:03:59 am »
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  • Spot on, Sputnik!

    And that is exactly what Bayes (wearing his Moderator's hat) had to point out to Albalaha recently.

    Offline Teorulte

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 09:50:53 am »
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  • Bayes is a stand up guy.  I have known him since the old VIP forum. 

    Offline Turner

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 11:24:04 am »
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  • if someone has an idea, and has a method then what possible reason would there be to post results and hints other than to conceal.

    I don't see any reason to conceal any part of a system.

    If explained in full, then members can test and comment; test and improve; test and refute.

    (I do enjoy getting the old semicolon out now and again)


    Offline Sputnik

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 11:42:03 am »
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  •  Victor once say that the best thing you can do is to ignore and it works.
     Why waste energie about things that does not matter.
     After all is only a forum.

    Offline Albalaha

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #7 on: December 14, 2014, 11:46:17 am »
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  • The entire list of members including Bayes himself were concealing their grails. Here people want to debate unplayable ideas only and it is evident that in so many years no forum got even a single playable system.
    Email: earnsumit@gmail.com - VIsit my blog: http://albalaha.lefora.com

    Offline JoeyKnish

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 04:52:41 pm »
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  • LOL. The last thing anyone wants is if and when a table game is beaten publicly. This means the game is unplayable and the payouts suck big time. Perfect example is blackjack. Since now every Larry, Joe, and Curly know about card counting thanks to Ed Thorpe, BJ is a terrible game to play especially here in Vegas. The casinos apply all these counter measures and twisting and changing the math it is not profitable to wager your money.

    Up next is poker. The game has become much harder because since the poker boom some ten years ago players have become much better and harder to beat. There are tons of resources out there for those anyone willing to put in the effort to learn.

    From learning this if you are someone who has even the slightest edge that no one knows about at the moment would you openly reveal it to the world? There is nothing wrong with hinting. It is people protecting their hard work and effort. If you are someone who complains about hinting, the problem is not the one doing the hinting, the issue is you.

    Offline ADulay

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 05:02:15 pm »
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  • The entire list of members including Bayes himself were concealing their grails.

    Well in that case I believe it would be prudent to ban everyone who has ever posted any idea or thought without a full bibliography and perhaps a Nexus citation.   

    Here people want to debate unplayable ideas only and it is evident that in so many years no forum got even a single playable system.

    What may be "unplayable" to one person is music to another.

    Most people, especially new members to the forum and gambling in general, always want to post up what they've "just discovered" even though many will recognize the "new" idea as merely a rehash or retelling of a much older idea.  Afterall, there are only so many ways you can slice and dice a two horse race.  Red/Black, Odd/Even, Hi/Lo, Bank/Player, etc.

    Eventually ALL system play boils down to a triggered event unless the method consists of a simple random event prediction.

    Want a "winning" system spelled out for you?

    Bet TBL.  Beats everything except 2's.   What more needs to be explained?

    Some will think it the best "system" play ever.  Some will think it a joke.  Some will work with it to "solve" the 2's problem.

    Your mileage may vary.

    AD (in an odd mood this morning)
     

    Offline JoeyKnish

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 05:05:35 pm »
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  • Well in that case I believe it would be prudent to ban everyone who has ever posted any idea or thought without a full bibliography and perhaps a Nexus citation.   

    What may be "unplayable" to one person is music to another.

    Most people, especially new members to the forum and gambling in general, always want to post up what they've "just discovered" even though many will recognize the "new" idea as merely a rehash or retelling of a much older idea.  Afterall, there are only so many ways you can slice and dice a two horse race.  Red/Black, Odd/Even, Hi/Lo, Bank/Player, etc.

    Eventually ALL system play boils down to a triggered event unless the method consists of a simple random event prediction.

    Want a "winning" system spelled out for you?

    Bet TBL.  Beats everything except 2's.   What more needs to be explained?

    Some will think it the best "system" play ever.  Some will think it a joke.  Some will work with it to "solve" the 2's problem.

    Your mileage may vary.

    AD (in an odd mood this morning)
     

    BAM! Well stated.

    Online alrelax

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #11 on: December 14, 2014, 05:14:11 pm »
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  • Eventually ALL system play boils down to a triggered event

       What more needs to be explained?

    AD (in an odd mood this morning)
     

    Made more money on triggered events (that don't exist, LOL) than anything else.

    ALL TRUE!  The mood is subjective but I understand moods.  Last night we were on the Interstate.  Major spill, 8,000 gallons.  All our traffic control with legit, in place with 'Slow down State law' signs.  We even lowered the speed limit as we are authorized verbally by State DOT Commander to do.  State Patrol at scene with 3 cars or more, all their cars parked in the median and no flashing lights on.  A guy comes by, talking on his cell phone, banging his wheel, blowing his horn-passing people on the breakdown lane, and it's one line of backed up traffic now on a Sat. night on a major interstate.  LOL, the state cops motion him over.  Thousands of dollars of tickets and about one hour later he pulls away.  I am in a mood too thinking about it.
    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

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    Offline Bayes

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 02:50:02 pm »
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  • # Hiting mean that some brag about how good he is or what good method he has with out showing any example.
    For example a guy who talks down to others methods and in the same time claim he know better ways with out showing any example.
     # Put up or shut up.
    Cheers
    My two cents.

    Although there is nothing specific in the forum rules regarding spamming or system selling, I see rule 7 (no bloviating, no hinting), to be interpreted in those terms. In other words, there are members who have said at one time or another that they win consistently or have a "holy grail", but in my view there should be a distinction between such claims and specific, concrete claims such as "this system has beaten X million spins", and posting graphs to "prove" it.

    Such a claim, if submitted by a member who is known to have sold systems in the past, and is clearly intent on communicating that he has "solved the problem", and hinting that others can be given the solution, through, for example, an email link and a suggestive message under their avatar, is, IMO, in contravention of rule 7. In such a case, we are indeed justified in demanding that they "put up or shut up".

    The difference really isn't that subtle. It's pretty obvious when someone is spamming, or just dropping an offhand and casual comment albeit in a "braggy" kind of way. No-one would reasonably jump all over this member and demand that he reveal all details or accuse him of trying to solicit custom. The application of some common sense is all that's required.

    I think the rule should be clarified to reflect this context and connection with potential spamming and system selling, if indeed, that was the intention of it in the first place.

    Ideally, (and this is what Stef had put in place just prior to closing his forum) there would be some way of allowing the braggers and system sellers put up or shut up. I'm not against system selling per se. A system seller doesn't necessariy equate to "scammer", although in the case of overblown claims it's highly likely that the seller knows very well that his system will not perform as advertised (why sell the goose which lays the golden egg?).

    Maybe Victor will get around to implementing this one day. I'm sure it will add a great deal to the forum, and be a lot of fun.

    Offline esoito

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #13 on: December 17, 2014, 04:30:22 am »
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  • Hmmm.... seems to me the word 'hinting' needs to be replaced in the context of Rule 7.

    Dropping hints without providing the answers is a perfectly legal teaching strategy used by teachers the world over to help a learner who might be struggling with a particular concept.

    We need an alternative word (or words).

    To arrive at that word or words, we must first ask:  what exactly is it we're trying to prevent?

    Here's a hint (LOL) for you: read again what Bayes has written.



    Online alrelax

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    Re: [COUNCIL] What constitutes "hinting" by a member?
    « Reply #14 on: December 17, 2014, 06:12:53 pm »
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  • Is 'hinting' anything similar to 'nudging'? 
    My Blog within BetSelection Board: https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/

    Played well over 29,555 shoes of baccarat since I started playing at B&M USA casinos.

    "Don't say it's a winning hand until you are getting paid for it".

    Played numerous properties in Las Vegas, Reno, Southern California, Atlantic City, Connecticut, South Florida, The South/Southeast as well as most areas of The Midwest.

    Baccarat, actually a mixture of Watergate, attacking the Gotti Family and the famous ear biting Tyson fight leading to disqualification and a near riot.  Bac has all that more.
     
    EMAIL: Betselectionboard@Gmail.Com