08 MUTE + REASON for July 2013

BetSelection.cc

Please login or register.

Topic: MUTE + REASON for July 2013  (Read 8480 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TwoCatSam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Bailey reads a book!
    • View Profile
Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2013, 03:52:58 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • Vic

    I'm sure you know that explanation won't hold water.  Again, here is your quote:  "Sumit, nobody is banning you or Ivica. You have both been productive members and are part of our community."

    This was said to him in open forum, not in an closed lounge.  If I recall the exchange, Sumit basically stated that if he were muted, he would leave the forum.  That is when you wrote the above.

    Even in his rant about leaving, he insulted FLAT.  Not a word was said.

    Vic, I'll be honest with you, your credibility is on the line here.

    The real question is:  Do you care?

    It stinks, Brother.  And the cover-up will stink more than the offense.  Ask Richard Nixon.

    Sam
    If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go where dogs go.   ...Will Rogers


    Offline TwoCatSam

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1440
    • Bailey reads a book!
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #16 on: July 11, 2013, 03:55:37 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • We have had long debates in the mods lounge regarding bans. What I wrote comes as a corollary.
    They shouldn't be. This is the "community council", the very space where this posts should be opened / discussed.

    This is a free-speech area, we can criticize ourselves too. No harm as long as it is for the better.

    We shall see!

    If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go where dogs go.   ...Will Rogers

    Offline Vic

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2955
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #17 on: July 11, 2013, 04:05:34 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • The reason I didn't issue the bans is simply because both Ivica and Sumit have been productive members in the past. They are recognized names by a considerable part of our community, and one can safely say they regarded as long-term part of our communities too.

    Over the course my administration in here and other forums, I have refrained to issue bans even to members with whom I had had direct personal friction; with the ban button staring at me...

    I most certainly hope we don't make a watergate out of this, because there isn't any.
    100% Free PUBLIC DOMAIN releases at: www.patreon.com/publicdomain


    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline Vic

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2955
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #18 on: July 11, 2013, 04:26:45 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • We shall see!
    The community council is a space specifically created to address things like this. Discomfort about decisions, voicing and contesting about happening on the forum by members and staff alike.

    ...Another thing would be to interrupt a productive thread, but over here it is precisely the space for these type of comments. You can report freely here.

    The slogan of the section says: "A space to openly handling reports as well as actions taken as part of their resolution."

    This is how we set precedent in order to become a better community over time.
    100% Free PUBLIC DOMAIN releases at: www.patreon.com/publicdomain


    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline Albalaha

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1943
    • Gender: Male
    • Learn about randomness before trying to fight that
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #19 on: July 11, 2013, 04:54:20 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • The community council has been created not to satisfy someone's ego or personal favor or grudge. Everybody can see in the debate still that who has started the mess after repeated requests from myself and chrisbis. If you call someone a cheat, you should be able to prove that. Ivica was not only wrong (it has been proved beyond any reasonable doubts by a global moderator himself) but disgraceful too. I can even vouch for total ban of him for all these but I prefer to let admin and global mods decide this.
                        I have not been muted now and if I be muted for the guilt of others, I prefer to leave this space calmly than shouting loud.
    Email: earnsumit@gmail.com - VIsit my blog: http://albalaha.lefora.com

    Offline TwoCatSam

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1440
    • Bailey reads a book!
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #20 on: July 11, 2013, 10:07:31 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • Vic

    You are intentionally missing my point.  Obfuscation! 

    Hey, Bro, it's your forum.  You run it as you wish.  But you are being terribly unfair to FLAT. 

    On the other hand, FLAT probably doesn't care so why should I?

    Sam
    If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go where dogs go.   ...Will Rogers

    Offline Vic

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2955
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 10:37:16 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • Sam, it is OUR forum. It'll be a crappy place if it was me alone.

    Regarding closure for the episode, these are matters which are needed to be settled in public. Me just telling "we will discuss it at the lounge" wouldn't be OK. But look, maybe I am guilty of not "being in the loop" before, this obeys to the fact I don't have the time right now to read the forum in-and-out as I did in the past; I have trust in the other members of the staff's common sense and execution (why would they be appointed if not). Mods are instructed to come to me preferably only on "the atrocious", the ban-deserving stuff *IS* handled by me. Warns and mutes are better handled by the mods, this way I have more time to devote to the productive things I must and are better to do.

    As it is, I acknowledge we -everyone- are prone to err.

    Please point the offending thread for open discussion. If it is removed, I will look it up in the forum's recycle bin.

    There is will to resolve this matter. There is entire will to discuss this in the open. There is full will to be fair. There is all the will on the table to bring this to closure since it is my understanding it has drained members of the staff already.

    Let's work together to bring closure to this.
    100% Free PUBLIC DOMAIN releases at: www.patreon.com/publicdomain


    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline TwoCatSam

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1440
    • Bailey reads a book!
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 10:56:12 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • Vic

    I will tell you exactly what I remember being posted. 

    AGAIN, COULD SOME MEMBER TELL ME IF I READ WRONG??  GEEZ, IT'S SO LITTLE TO ASK.

    I read Sumit and FLAT were both muted.

    Sumit said if he were muted, he would leave the forum.

    You, Vic, said no one was being banned.

    So I distinctly remember reading that FLAT and Sumit were muted.

    Then--all of a sudden--Sumit is not muted.  FLAT is.

    If the post were all about FLAT being muted, why was Sumit even mentioned? 

    The posts were not deleted, they were edited by some mod.

    What a sack of turds!

    Sam
    If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go where dogs go.   ...Will Rogers

    Offline Vic

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2955
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 11:56:34 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • Sam, at this time I'm afraid I can't be of help to give proper closure to this case. I wasn't an active participant in this incident.

    I haven't touched the mute functionality in this case at all. That I can tell you. But I trust the common sense of the mod pressing the button.

    At times people apologize privately and mutes are lifted, but in this case there is absolutely no mention of any mod actually muting albalaha, only flat-ino.

    My involvement in this case has been this:

    - I posted a directly-spawned rule update and my position of not involving myself or emitting judgement here: https://betselection.cc/off-topic/wimbledon-2013/msg17135/#msg17135

    - I announced nobody was being banned as a result here: https://betselection.cc/community-council/mute-reason-for-july-2013/msg17187/#msg17187

    I vouch in the moderator's lounge and now in the open for people with a reasonable ratio of productive posts in the past to be given more chances. We all pass through "rough patches". I have been there myself.

    If albalaha was muted and then his mute was lifted, it wasn't informed by any of the moderators.



    If there are concerns regarding Flat-ino's mute and you wish to vouch for him and offer a possible venue for resolution, it can be addressed too. We are reasonable people. I'm certain if flat-ino wants to express himself here, no mod would refuse to let him. Now I join the people who is becoming ground from this incident, but when a limit in our human endurance is reached, we must quickly build another.

    I'm here to assist with anything I can.
    100% Free PUBLIC DOMAIN releases at: www.patreon.com/publicdomain


    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline TwoCatSam

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1440
    • Bailey reads a book!
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #24 on: July 12, 2013, 12:09:58 am »
  • ReplyReply
  • Vic

    You're coming across loud and clear.  Sumit is the "one-eyed jack" of the forum.

    Since when does a member get muted for saying something in private chat?  That seems to be the crux of the matter.  FLAT insulted Chrisbis.  I have a feeling he's the one who muted FLAT.

    So what's next, Vic.  If I tell someone to kiss mine in a PM, will I be muted?  That seems to be what happened.

    I'm sick of seeing one member get special treatment.  It makes a body wonder.  I won't post the question, but I remind of you of what ddarko said.

    Sam
    If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go where dogs go.   ...Will Rogers

    Offline Albalaha

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1943
    • Gender: Male
    • Learn about randomness before trying to fight that
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #25 on: July 12, 2013, 04:29:06 am »
  • ReplyReply
  • Things get uglier when one saint starts protecting another saint. I don't think its 'Ugly' per se.
    TCS has again started calling my names without any reason. Well he feels he has reason, but I hope Sam now reads below.
    He has probably forgotten as to how his actions and deeds made snatch his "global moderator status" shortly and how for later using filth against Admin himself and me, was muted. I doubt Sam forgot that one! but it has little relevance.
           


    Every reasonable person who has witnessed the incident will support me and not Flat_ino. It seems identity crisis has taken over some minds. "Why his shirt is whiter than mine" is ruling over heads. I insist that Flat_Ino should at least apologize because I know he doesn't have courage to pay me.
    I don't think Fat-In-O ever really intended to pay any money over, because he was adamant he was in the right, and I guess he always will do.
    Flat-In-O was muted/moderated because of the way he went about his business here, and I would warn U Albalaha, I would also be careful what you say.
    Its about time you moved on from this, and stay your usual distance from BOTH these members.


    Moderator Comment Chrisbis here.I have altered this post by Albalaha, in view of what has now been said on the matter.I only sorry to ALL forum members, that I was absent from my 'post', as I could have nipped this in the bud earlier, before lots of these messages were posted.
    Email: earnsumit@gmail.com - VIsit my blog: http://albalaha.lefora.com

    Offline Chrisbis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 805
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #26 on: July 12, 2013, 10:13:57 am »
  • ReplyReply
  • Vic

    Sorry man, this stinks!! 

    Who is in charge of muting?  You or any mod? 

    I still ask that some other member tell me if they saw the post where both were banned.

    This really, really stinks!!

    Sam
    MEMBERS.....I am not perfect and there is a chance I read wrong.  I would swear both were muted.  Could I get some verification from others?  Did anyone read where both were muted??Sam



    I had a day off yesterday, so apologies for not been included in these council submissions.


    @Sam
    The member Albalaha was never muted by any member of staff. (in relation to "WimbledonGate")


    What you read into Albalaha's post, was his attempt at self muting for what ever reason, and an implied threat to leave the forum.
    Read into that what you will.


    Within the Wimbledon 2013 Topic/debacle, there were two injured parties, and one attacker.


    Myself took the brunt of the accusation/claim//counter claim, and contemptible behaviour by a seasoned poster/contributor.
    He totally distrusted my words, my intentions, and my actions.
    Accusing me of pure fabrication/fraud for financial gain of another.


    That person is in only member muted within that Topic realm.


    Sorry Sam, if you mis-understood Albalaha's post.


    I know you two have past/history and there is a cause in the forum that's keeps you two gentlemen at arms length from each other, but there was no need for you to ram home the point you raised.


    Flat-In-O continues to be muted until the end of the auto time-out, OR staff feel he has earned the right to return.


    I will be quite frank with you, and its taken me a while to reflect on this, but I am now favouring an continued muted of this member, after the way he abused these forum pages to his own ends......Until he apologises.


    Esoito/Bayes and some others, privately to me, have all examined the facts in the case, and found Flat-In-O wanting.
    That decision is not mine to take though.


    Offline Chrisbis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 805
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #27 on: July 12, 2013, 10:22:14 am »
  • ReplyReply
  • Just to add....................Albalaha/Sumit is most certainly NOT the "One Eyed Jack" of the forum.


    Every one of his posts & remarks are carefully scrutinised for accuracy, politeness, endeavour, and correlation with the rules of this community.


    Please everyone, be under no illusion, that any one member is having favours pasted their way.
    Even I have had my knuckles wrapped just prior to being asked to join the admin.
    We should ALL be subject to the same rules and conditions...............don't you agree?


    If Flat-In-O quickly apologizes, as I have asked him to do, we all move forward and get on with the task in hand.......period.



    @Sam
    In this post of your, yesterday:-
    https://betselection.cc/community-council/mute-reason-for-july-2013/msg17322/#msg17322


    Sir, you are just plain wrong.....and are now misrepresenting the facts.
    Plus, with Vic being quite busy with his local work, he wanted me and other mods, to handle this issue.
    So, the muted order came from myself, and one other mod after consultation.


    Albalaha's use of words, are well documented here, and he has been warned several times, and assisted in redacting several extracts in his posts.
    You are of course, most welcome to express your views, as long as they too are fair, balanced and constructive, but on the issue you raise with regards to Vic's proberty on the matter, there is not a case to answer for.


    Albalaha will no doubt leave this place when he sees fit to do so, or he has not reason to remain,
    same as anyone else.

    Offline Vic

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2955
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #28 on: July 12, 2013, 12:57:17 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • I'll try to be concise with what I hope is my last post on this matter. Chris is a capable person and mod, he was directly involved and any further question regarding this matter would be better addressed to him.



    Sam reported this post, and I'm acting to clear the fact he resigned from being a mod due to dissenting me vouching for Albalaha to stay a member. This happened at the lounge but I'm saying this with permission from Sam to clear the matter.

    If I tell someone to kiss mine in a PM, will I be muted?
    Sam, PM's have a report button. If abuse happens in a PM and a member forwards the abusing PM to the staff, then he deserves action to be taken.

    We would be worse if a member reports abuse and we don't act.

    Furthermore, I hope you and everyone agree it would be better for members not to start the abuse be it by PM, forum, email, snail mail, telephone, SMS, carrier pigeon or anything else; but rather to treat each other with respect as conscious members of a fine community, which is what we're trying to host here.

    Hope this matter settles right.
    100% Free PUBLIC DOMAIN releases at: www.patreon.com/publicdomain


    Email: betselectiongmail.com
    -- Victor

    Offline Chrisbis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 805
      • View Profile
    Re: MUTE + REASON for July 2013
    « Reply #29 on: July 12, 2013, 01:49:37 pm »
  • ReplyReply
  • @Sam


    "No trolling"


    I too will try and take stock here, ask if you can 'accommodate' my perspective, and lets see if we can square the circle on the matter.
    Lets establish a few facts shall we.


    Quote
    If Albalaha had just left FLAT alone--it was his thread after all
    Actually, no, it wasn't Flat-In-O's thread, it was started by me.....
    The associated thread, was started by Flat-In-O, for sure, but was the result of the first.

    From my vantage point, Albalaha, has not got, nor will be getting, special treatment whilst I am a moderator at this forum.
    No one will......and Albalaha and I have past form, in the old 'suite' from two years ago, that almost made Esoito resign as a mod.
    Thankfully, I have wised up, grown a huge pair of "Forum" balls, and learnt a lot about these special places.
    Especially about respect and accuracy.


    Which brings me on the PM's.
    The accusations you have been mentioning, with regard to "WimbledonGate" were not mainly in the medium of PM's.
    They were, in the forum itself, and some in a Skype conversation that I had with Flat-In-O, which was and is private, but that only added small flames to the fire.


    Your past with Vic/Albalaha, is just that....your history.
    Obviously, we all learn from it, as we learn more and more about what went on.
    It will not though, have any bearing on the current mute in place.


    I have, on at least two occasions, asked Albalaha not to inflame that Topic with his continued rhetoric, and badgering.
    It just does not make the situation any more solvable.


    I see no reason at all for your muting, you are just expressing your vantage point, your past dealings with the certain member(s)........... and therefore, you have no need to assume you will be "brought to book", as there is no case .


    I don't expect you to ever change you mind about this matter (WimbledonGate), nor the position you think Albalaha holds within the forum, but I will say this.........As far as I am concern, he is a current member of BetSelection, and although he has a link site to his own blog space (which in reality is another forum of his standing, and that link is always under review), in the absence of evidence to the contrary, Albalaha is not the guilty party in this Wimbledon affair........for a change.!


    Al's choice of words and phrases, can quite often be looked upon as provocation, and posturing.....that is his style, much in the same way as you have a 'style' Sam.......we all do. WHat we as mods have to do, is look past that Raison d'être, and, as you rightly stated, seek the truth.


    The real if...........is..........IF Flat-In-O had not issued such a offer to Albalaha in the first place, and just gone about his business, and not risen to the dizzy heights of "Oh I have a Bookie Brain..So There is no Way I could be Wrong!", then we would all be in a different place right now.


    Thing is, with Albalaha, he does not let go once you have thrown the first punch.


    Anyone for tennis?