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Offline Maxwell

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My post was chopped up!
« on: September 17, 2014, 09:22:23 am »
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  • I'm not sure who chopped up my post and censored it.  But it was disrespectful to do it.  There wasn't anything wrong with my post. As a poster I'll just say I didn't like it and I didn't care for the mods sacastic jab either.   Its not very courteous and it doesn't make me want to 'donate $' to keep it alive.  I've seen donations are important to keep the board up, but seniors like me  don't want to pay to be disrespected like that.  A simple PM would have been more appropriate.     

     if it happens again I'll  find another forum and will take my $$$ donations elsewhere.


    Offline greenguy

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 09:41:21 am »
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  • Maxwell, Maxwell, Maxwell.

    Think of it as such; this forum is a world unto itself. The moderators are the ocean on this world, and you are kelp.

    The ocean will wash over you endlessly and the more you wave yourself about the more vigorously it will wash over you, eventually uprooting you and smashing you against the rocks or beaching you in some remote location to dry out in the harsh sun and perish.

    Such is the life of kelp.

    Offline Maxwell

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 09:44:55 am »
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  • This kelp is irked. Chopping my post and adding the sarcastic comment was childish and petty.



    And you want us to pay money to be treated like that?  :thumbsdown:



     I think this is my last post. 

    Offline Mike

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 10:01:10 am »
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  • Take heed, Victor. One mod in particular is a liability to this forum and your income! 

    DOUBLE STANDARDS prevail.

    Offline Mike

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 10:09:38 am »
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  • Maxwell,

    Please don't leave. This forum needs more members like you who advocate common sense, math, and the scientific method. Aspiring punters deserve better than to have nonsense like "intuition", and other airy-fairy notions dished out as a substitute.

    Offline Maxwell

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 10:32:28 am »
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  • In America we take freedom of speech pretty seriously.  Abridging free speech is a VERY big deal to us.   It's part of the first amendment. When someone gets  the willy nilly idea to try and censor us, we truly don't like it.   

    Offline Leapyfrog

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 11:21:53 am »
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  • Aspiring punters deserve better than to have nonsense like "intuition", and other airy-fairy notions dished out as a substitute.
    Mike - Well said. I am an aspiring punter who has gone through all this and has the capability to think through what is right and what is not. But it is also true that as long as "takers" are there, there will be "givers" as well. To me intuition in pro game doesn't make sense and all other airy-fairy notions in pro game doesn't make sense. But hey, that's my opinion and others deeprooted in a different world may argue otherwise. Some may say GOD exists and others may say GOD doesn't. Beliefs are different from facts and one need to learn how to differentiate between them.

    At the same time, I quite agree to not taking personal digs. None of us know what was chopped or what was censored, so I don't think it is right for any of us to comment on it. But at the same time, I have been reading all Maxwell's stuff and I concur with them. Maxwell, just quoting yourself back "A simple PM to the admin or moderator would have been more appropriate rather than a public post :)"

    There are only two approaches. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is up to takers to decide what to take and what not to take. I have chosen my path and am sure there are people here who might have taken one path or other.
    Giant leap is formed of baby steps.

    Offline Vic

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 11:44:11 am »
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  • Hello dear friends, there is a "Checks and Balances" section where anyone can post these reports and we do try to find a via media to leave as much of the post as possible within the context of our rules.

    We do make efforts to keep a balanced forum, both for posters as well as readers and -yes- mods.

    There is a log for moderation action so the contents can be recovered.

    We are all first-class citizens. In here every member is worth enough to have his voice heard, up to having the admin himself be involved; so rest assured we care for the well-being of the community in every step of our community's ladder. We are malleable and actively nurture our place for balance
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    Offline Vic

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 12:53:52 pm »
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  • Ok, the disputed part was removed mainly because the contents of the PM can be inferred by the published comments. The post was returned to its original state sans the PM paragraph.

    The remark added in the moderator comment about the cake wasn't appropriate, for which I extend you an apology in the name of our staff. We will discuss this in the moderator's lounge.

    P.S. I have PM'd you the removed part of the post for your archive, in order to allow you to edit and re-post if you are so inclined. We can of course continue this discussion via PM, just hit reply in the message's panel :)

    Link: https://betselection.cc/xxvv-studio/value-of-wf-technique/msg31897/#msg31897

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    Offline XXVV

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 08:14:43 pm »
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  • Take heed, Victor. One mod in particular is a liability to this forum and your income!

    DOUBLE STANDARDS prevail.

    Mike

    It is pleasing to see you back at this Forum  rather than in Sleepy Hollow where Xander/ Real seems to have carved himself a niche expounding upon 'hoity-toity' posters and 'pretentiousness' and cut+paste statements on 'gambler's fallacy', generally stating views of the world from a school of thought to which you appear to belong  where 'common sense, math, and the scientific method' are given priority and  'airy-fairy notions' and 'nonsense like intuition' are forbidden.

    It is indeed necessary to have these views expressed in a concise and articulate way but without going into the personal attacks and slander that the troll Xander/ Real had brought to the table.

    I have chipped into this conversation initiated by Maxwell because I was responsible as Moderator of my BLOG to remove two of Maxwell's posts because in spite of repeated polite requests to desist, he continually posted comments which were critical and out of context for the topic, which is WF work and extended technique beyond that. Freedom of speech is fine as a principle although in the US context with increasing connectivity throughout the world one must be careful through surveillance what and where any remarks are made, and this now applies anywhere on the planet. It is wise to select words carefully and in the context of my correspondence with Maxwell it became clear, as most find sooner or later, that a good Editor would be helpful -lol.

    I respect alternative views and the place to express them, within reason. The purpose of my note here is to try to also respect balance and the need for action sometimes and to speak up for those unable to in this context.

    In other words if communication traffic (posting) is off track, confused or not constructive, then it is appropriate to request a halt. If no notice is taken, and no understanding or acknowledgment is received from the 'traffic' (ie the posts and notes from Maxwell) regarding understanding and respect of the context of the subject matter then it is necessary to be firm and bring a halt, and edit irrelevant material. Respect should be given in the context of a BLOG to the host. Such is the case with all the BLOG hosts.

    In short Maxwell was trying to be difficult requesting specific instructions on a private and personal methodology and complained of vagueness to excess when actually my notes were clearer/ nearer than he realised. To expect step by step instruction on a private method was just inappropriate and disrespectful to me and to how I try to assist others in their own research by mostly talking in principle or with limited examples. I do not hint.

    The irony is that amongst the many hundreds of words I have written to Maxwell in the past week ( most of which have been directed to try to assist Maxwell), my brilliant friend S. is soon to establish a website which espouses common sense, math and the scientific method. In fact he has no intuition in his 'concrete linear' way of seeing the world. Yet he is one of my closest colleagues and we totally exchange our data for peer review.

    What I encountered from Maxwell was disrespectful, judgmental and the inability to listen, take note of what was said, and desist. Yet I had commenced as always giving an enthusiastic enquirer my full good will. That was withdrawn after repeated examples of criticism and misunderstanding. In fact a lot of noise, and little signal. That is my interpretation of this context.

    So to the unfortunate remark by Mike about Esoito. Mike and Xander have a thing about being Moderated, yet the comments and attitude are most unfair and I want to speak out to say that being a Global Moderator is a task I would not relish. There will always be a disgruntled party and you will not seek to please most people.

    Real/Xander is a troll and thrives on negativity so that is why he hates Moderators because they stop his folly.

    Mike, by his own admission regretted the tone of his departing message on this Forum, and the post was duly edited by Esoito.

    Goodness knows we all say and do silly things we later regret. And it is great to see Mike back. It would be great to see the results of his MB simulation. Of course the problem was it was complex to program and could be done only by working in very close collaboration with Jason - and in practical terms at a distance maybe too hard but could/ would have been a fascinating and rewarding project. ( Better to be in Melbourne to conduct such a work).

    I take the view that it is water under the bridge. We learn and move on but do not hold grudges because they fester. Better to bring it out into the open. Have an explosion if necessary and clear the air. Give the Moderators a break. Stop being personal Mike and be mature. Move forward, move on. You have much more to offer than to be sniping over trivia. As I have said elsewhere it is a thankless task but if Moderators were not there, the Forum would not function.

    The comment that the role of a GM in harming the income for the Forum is nonsense. This Forum has more value and prestige now thanks to the membership, the quality of so many fine members in this community and many fine and even brilliant minds have returned to contribute here. The reason this is so is through the ability to write in peace and safety, in harmony and mutual respect ( despite disagreements ) wherever is appropriate in the Forum layout. It is in growth mode and flourishes. The reason for the harmony and balance is through the work behind the scenes of Moderators and Administration.

    I wish Maxwell encouragement and suggest he opens a series of threads here for his unique world view where from his LV base he could provide fascinating personal insight into legends. But not on my BLOG.


    Offline esoito

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 11:00:27 pm »
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  • Maxwell,

    Please don't leave. This forum needs more members like you who advocate common sense, math, and the scientific method. Aspiring punters deserve better than to have nonsense like "intuition", and other airy-fairy notions dished out as a substitute.

    How truly wonderful to see you back.

    And what an excellent observation.

    Intuition is, of course, no substitute, and has never been presented as such.

    For some it is but one tool out of several available and, like all tools, is sometimes used when appropriate by those that can, and by those that chose to.

    The forum is about 'bet  selection' in all its guises and incarnations and as such is a very broad church.

    All methods have their strengths and weaknesses.

    Offline muggins

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 12:26:16 am »
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  • Maxwell,

    Please don't leave. This forum needs more members like you who advocate common sense, math, and the scientific method. Aspiring punters deserve better than to have nonsense like "intuition", and other airy-fairy notions dished out as a substitute.

    A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood.

    Chinese Proverb

    Offline Albalaha

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    Re: My post was chopped up!
    « Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 03:40:27 am »
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  • @Victor,
               As I requested do not allow anybody to delete any post or topic. At max, let topic moderator fold it/hide it. Similarly, if someone edits his posts later (not for corrections of small errors at the time of posting), the editing should be seen by strikethrough on what was incorrect earlier and if there are only additions to that, that should come in red font color or as Added:____
                  Remember, there are two kind of rights in collision here, in such cases. Topic moderator, who has upper hand now, may feel offended by some comments and try to delete that. On the other hand, other members who are replying using their mind and soul may feel offended by some genuine posts of them deleted simply because it was contradicting the topic moderators writings. There are certain members who can merely clap over writings or say, "this won't work" repeatedly. A few have comments that can suit only humor section.
                     Now, what can be the solutions of all these? I have faced problems on both sides of this argument. The best and democratic way to solve this trouble is to not to allow topic moderators to delete any post, nor anybody should be allowed to edit, without that "editing" being clearly shown. At max, offending and inappropriate posts should only be made hidden/folded (as we can do with hide/unhide command). Topic moderator doing that should put reasons for hiding that aside which can be:
    1. nod, clap, no, thumbs down etc either verbally and/or use of emoticons  having no value for the post.
    2. jokes or use of language other than english.
    3. posts talking of something else than the topic in discussion (I feel this to be most annoying, this is a debate community, not a dating site or friendship club)
    3. namecalling, personal attack, mudslinging, racist or any kind of abuse or filthy stuff.
                     Later, global moderator and admin can evaluate them and delete or fix that reply. Warnings may be issued to the culprits and suitable actions may be taken to lessen bad practices.
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