Dozen Breaker

This is a new system that I am currently testing out with excellent results so far.Trigger : wait for one dozen to repeat one time, and then bet on it not repeating a second time (only one bet-next bet is triggered by another dozen repeating)

Concept : Most dozens only repeat one time, so we take advantage of that with appropriate betting+progression

Progression : Standard 3-line Labby (bet is indicated by first line and losses are added from the last line up across all available lines*)

*remember to add betx2 units for every loss as you will be betting on 2 dozens each time

Sample Game : Spins : 18,32,08,12,22,18,36,05

18     no bet
32     no bet
08     no bet
12     Trigger - first bet next spin = 1 unit on dozens 2 and 3
22     Win = 1 unit
18     Trigger - next bet next spin = 1 unit on dozens 1 and 3
36     Win = 1 unit
05     no bet

The power of this system is that you can have a very large number of losses close together and still recover easily using the 3-line Labby which happens over 100s of spins thus giving us a more even distribution of w/L.

Bankroll : $300/1 unit bets

Max Bet : $10 ($20) - then just add lines (only had to do this once adding 1 line. Keep in mind that you could add 27 lines with this bankroll)

Average win : 1 unit / 7 spins (a bit of a grind)

If anyone has a "worst case scenario" sequence, I will be happy to test the system against it. The main problem that I'm running into, is that I can't seem to find any significant deviations over 1000s of spins (good news/bad news) due to the large numbers of spins over which the bets are selected.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                  -TheLaw

Sample Game (Full with Labby explanation)


34,22,05,12,28,33,25,14,11,11,22


Labby (in red)


l
l
l
34-no bet
22-no bet
05-no bet
12-trigger bet (1 unit on dozen 2/3=total 2 unit)
28-win (+1)(now cross out first line of Labby)
l
l
33-trigger bet (1 unit on dozen 1/2 = total 2 unit)
25-loss (so add 2 units to Labby)
ll
ll
14-no bet
11-no bet
11-trigger bet (2 units on 2/3 = 4 units)
22-win (+2)
ll
................


So now the Labby is down to a single line of (ll), which means that the next bet will be 2 units (x2 dozens=4 units)


Keep in mind that this Labby come go up to 10 units per line x 30 lines if necessary, so feel free to add lines for anything over 10 units per line.


                                                                                                            -theLaw

@the Law
               It may look repetitive but I would still like to add two things.
1. "session from hell" has to come for whatever bet you can think of. If you haven't seen that, it is only lack of experience and they can be of such bad degree that no progression can handle them.


2. Harsh progressions like martingale, labby and fibonacci  very soon rush you to either an unplayable bet or table limit. Believe me, all forms of them are disastrous. If you want to be a pro, think of mild progressions. Kattila has posted many sensible money managements which can be referred and followed.

Hi theLaw and Albalaha,

Similar to your 2 dozen bet idea - this is kinda the opposite from one of Gizmotron posts:

Quote
Here is my Very Rare to Kill Progression
=========================
It was inspired by reverse engineering the crackpot Charles Scammer Hampshire's spoof of an idea he called the Zone.  His only problem was he actually had something a real player could make use of.  He didn't even know it.  So I thought about it for fifteen minutes and turned his lame idea upside down and inside out.  Guess what? It really works.  After thousands of spin tests it has held up as a winner.  It does this because the pattern or sequence it takes to kill it is so very rare that it tends to work.  Charles Scammer never noticed that feature even in his own spoof of a Holy Grail he has been harassing forums with.

It uses 4 steps.  It avoids the zeros.  It's completely rule based.  It has a few wait points that usually resolve in just a few spins.

The point is to bet on the two dozens or columns that did not hit last.  It's almost that simple.  The other point is to wait for the next single to occur in the dozens after the last repeat.
 
So if d1 (dozen 1, 1 to 12) hits you bet on d2 and d3 for the next spin.

If d1 hits again then you lose.  You now wait for d1 to stop hitting.  As soon as d2 or d3 hits you have a single in series.  So then you start step two of the four step progression.  It takes a perfect set of repeats and singles to kill this progression.
The progression is 1,1 - 3,3 - 9,9 - 27,27.
You place a bet on each of the dozens that did not hit last.

The cost is 80 units if you lose.  You win everything back plus 1 unit on any win inside the four steps.

The thing that makes it work is that you never place bets on any repeats after the first repeat is discovered.  So runs of repeats don't take out your progressions.  Only the exact sequence of repeats after singles, four directly in a row has the power to break this progression.

For the sake of clarity here are step by step instructions.

d1 hits on spin 1.  Bet 1 on d2 and 1 on d3 for spin 2.
d1 hits on spin 2.  Don't bet on spin 3.
d1 hits on spin 3  Don't bet on spin 4.
d3 hits on spin 4  Bet 3 on d2 and 3 on d1 for spin 5.
d1 hits on spin 5  Bet 1 on d2 and 1 on d3 for spin 6.
d2 hits on spin 6  Bet 1 on d1 and 1 on d3 for spin 7. 
d3 hits on spin 7  Bet 1 on d1 and 1 on d2 for spin 8.

I generally lose one time in 300 spins betting both dozens and columns independently for each spin.  That's typical too.  Once in a while you get two losses.  And once in a while you get no losses.  With both progressions going on at the same time you tend to win about 20 units for every 30 spins.

If this is a holy grail system then three or more losses must take place most of the time for it not to be, in 300 spins that is.

On a five dollar minimum table this should cost $400 for each loss.  So a $1200 bankroll would be considered minimal to try it.
There are some refinements not mentioned regarding the zeros.  I just did not want to cloud the explanation at this time.  I'd hate to be blamed for changing this after the fact.  That's what Charles Scammer does.  He's a liar.  Some how he gets his jollies for leading people on.  I just don't want to be in his low class.  So there it is, now go change the world forever.  Just remember I thought this up.  To all those that think it won't change things just watch this gold rush.

Q's
==
1. when the 0 appears, do we track 2 new numbers b4 continuing our bet? at the next progression level? Or do we actually use the number that appeared b4 0 and the number that appeared after it?
2. You did mention something about avoiding betting if the 0's are active. What would this conditions be like in your opinion???
3. How long would you recommend one session to be? and possible w/l targets??I'm assuming that the min br would be 240 units. 20-30 unit target per session??

A's
===
1.) I wait two spins after each zero, to see if a new single appears.

2.) When zeros start hitting within ten spins of each other or when they repeat.

3.) I run 300 spin tests. But I would end with 25 to 30 units. as a good goal. A loss is 80 units. Maybe winning 80 is a good idea.

Well theLaw, if u think is good then I wonder how THIS would pan out using your Labby idea??

Regards,
A.

Hi Atlantis, and LAW,
I have a 'million dollar' question to ask both of u.

In an average 100spins, how many   "LOSE" hit, and "WIN" hit???

If in 100spins , averages, 'WIN' hit= 67 times, and 'LOSE' hit =33 times, then your BETSELECTION is very good!

A few simple progression will make them best system.


Thanks in advance!

Quote from: Albalaha on July 20, 2014, 06:02:11 AM
@the Law
               It may look repetitive but I would still like to add two things.
1. "session from hell" has to come for whatever bet you can think of. If you haven't seen that, it is only lack of experience and they can be of such bad degree that no progression can handle them.


2. Harsh progressions like martingale, labby and fibonacci  very soon rush you to either an unplayable bet or table limit. Believe me, all forms of them are disastrous. If you want to be a pro, think of mild progressions. Kattila has posted many sensible money managements which can be referred and followed.

I'll take a look at Kattila's progressions and see if there is anything better - Thanks!

Quote from: Atlantis on July 20, 2014, 11:07:26 AM
Hi theLaw and Albalaha,

Similar to your 2 dozen bet idea - this is kinda the opposite from one of Gizmotron posts:

Well theLaw, if u think is good then I wonder how THIS would pan out using your Labby idea??

Regards,
A.

Hey Atlantis,


I like the idea, but I would be very concerned about a 4-step Martingale.


As for using the Labby, it might be a good fit. I was looking for something that was a more rare occurrence (remember that a Labby does not clear after just 1 win, so cumulative wins can kill it dead). Having said that, if we put a stop-loss in place, it may win fast enough to work long term.


Thanks!

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 20, 2014, 12:38:15 PM
Hi Atlantis, and LAW,
I have a 'million dollar' question to ask both of u.

In an average 100spins, how many   "LOSE" hit, and "WIN" hit???

If in 100spins , averages, 'WIN' hit= 67 times, and 'LOSE' hit =33 times, then your BETSELECTION is very good!

A few simple progression will make them best system.


Thanks in advance!

Hey Beat,




It is difficult to find a precise average given the rare event of repeating dozens, but I would say roughly 2 wins/1 loss (mathematically) or maybe even 1win/1loss worst case scenario (keep in mind we are losing 2 to l1 with bets, but Labby handles this nicely). This has been my only concern with the system, is that I can't see what would happen over 10,000 spins (it would take 2100 spins just to double 300 unit bankroll)

Hi Law,
Your LABBY is nice,
but u must prepare for the "UN-NICE", when it happen!
Or u lose your shirt, and underwear too! [smiley]aes/cry.png[/smiley] 

The averages '2 win and 1lose',
is good if it keep on constantly,that way.

Your Labby very interesting but dangerous.

You say,"I can't see what would happen over 10,000 spins"

Why not u try Labby start from a "SINGLE 1",
and reset, with 1 unit win!
its slower, but lot safer.

We must always remember, we not rush in' to lose money, but slow and steady to earn a unit a session.

Many gambler can't even win a unit per day , 365/year!!


Hope to hear from ATLANTIS soon.
Thanks.

If you guys realize how easily martingale or labby goes sky high and how easily they are likely to go beyond playable range, you would not dare to use them. HP Johnson version of labby (which reduces in size gradually) looks wiser but that has other traits that are bad like that will behave like flat bet in the beginning, like a standard labby in the middle and like martingale in the end. It may suit at times, or it may not.

Yes. agreed with Albalaha.

HP Johnson is very dangerous when the
very last bet encounter long losing streaks.
That destroy the long flatbet and patiently
staking at beginning and middle of play!!!

Though some may argue that we can
SPLIT and SPLIT again the huge losses
to reduce the risk,
BUT then that u have to DECIDE
and GUESS and with the emotional
and the agitating mental stress and depleting BR...

That destroy the intended "mechanical steadfast rules"
in the first place!!!

HP JOHNSON only quite good
when play bet SINGLE DOZEN,
but strategy&staking intended for EC play,
where u never confront Mr MARTHY,
but the BR can go quite high!

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 21, 2014, 04:54:26 AM
Hi Law,
Your LABBY is nice,
but u must prepare for the "UN-NICE", when it happen!
Or u lose your shirt, and underwear too! [smiley]aes/cry.png[/smiley] 

The averages '2 win and 1lose',
is good if it keep on constantly,that way.

Your Labby very interesting but dangerous.

You say,"I can't see what would happen over 10,000 spins"

Why not u try Labby start from a "SINGLE 1",
and reset, with 1 unit win!
its slower, but lot safer.

We must always remember, we not rush in' to lose money, but slow and steady to earn a unit a session.

Many gambler can't even win a unit per day , 365/year!!


Hope to hear from ATLANTIS soon.
Thanks.

If you are referring to a single line, that is called a Martingale. If you mean several lines with just 1 unit (0-0-1), this makes very little difference in terms of safety.


I do agree that a better progression would probably make this a solid system

Hi Law,

I do a [LABBY, start from 1unit], which I think will not facing huge
drawdown and will not killed by the deadly MARTY in the last few
spins!!!HP Johnson can't face Marthy as u already know.

  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

bet only 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16,...
repeat at 17th spin

1. L   1st bet
2. L   2nd bet
3. L
4. W   3rd bet
5. W
6. L
7. W
8. W  4th bet
9. L
10. L
11. L
12. W
13. L
14. L
15. L
16. L 16[bet= as 5th. ]
17. L1    as bet6th
18. L2  as bet 7th
19. L
20. L4   as bet 8th
21. L
22. L
23. L
24. W8
25. W
26. L
27. L
28. W
29. L
30. L
31. L
32. L16
33. L1
34. L2
35. W
36. W4
37. W
38. W
39. W
40. L8
41. L
42. W
43. L
44. W
45. W
46. L
47. L
48. W16 and so on...



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Below I do a LABBY start from a single 1

-------------------------
1st spins. Lose

start labby as
  [1]

bet 1=lose=-1=-1
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


2nd. =Lose   2nd bet

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



4th spin. =W   [3rd bet]

[112]
bet3=win=3=0

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


8th.= Win  [4th bet]

[1]
bet 1=win=1=+1 win, reset.[total win=+1]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



16th. =L [5th bet]

start labby as [1]

bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





17. L1

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



18. L2

[112]
bet 3=lose=-3=-6

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



20. L4

[1123]

bet 4=lose=-4=-10


24. W8

[11234]

bet5=win=+5=-5

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

32. L16

[ 123 ]

bet 4=lose=-4=-9

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

33. L1

[ 1234 ]

bet 5=-5=-14
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

34. L2

[ 12345 ]

bet 6=lose=-6=-20
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

36. W4

[ 123456 ]

bet 7=win=+7=-13

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

40. L8

[  2345  ]

bet 7=lose=-7=-20

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

48. W16

[  23457  ]

bet 9=win=+9=-11

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

49. W1

[   345   ]

bet 8=win=+8=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



50. W2

[    4    ]

bet 4=win=+4=+1  reset. total=win=2
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

52. W4[count as4

[1]
bet 1=win=+1.  reset. total=win=3


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

56. L8

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

64. W[16]

[11]
bet2=win=+2=+1.  reset. total=win=4

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

65. L1

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
66. W2

[11]
bet2=win=+2=+1.  reset. total=win=5

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

68. L4

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

72. L8

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

80. W16

[112]
bet 3=lose=-4=-7

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
81. L1

[1123]
bet 4=lose=-4=-11

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

82. L2
[11234]

bet 5=lose=-5=-16

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
84. L4

[112345]
bet 6=lose=-6=--22
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

88. L8

[1123456]

bet 7=lose=-7=-29

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

96. L16

[11234567]
bet 8=lose=-8=-37

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

97. L1

[112345678]
bet 9=lose=-9=-46

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

98. W2

[1123456789]
bet 10=win=10=-36


xxxxxxxxxx

100. W4

[ 12345678 ]
bet 9=win=9=-27

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

104. L8

[  234567  ]
bet 9=lose=-9=-36

xxxxxxxxxxx

112. L16

[  2345679  ]
bet 11=lose=-11=-47


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

113. W1

[  2345679,11  ]
bet 13=win=13=-34
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

114. W2

[  345679  ]

  bet 12==win=12=-22

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


116. L4

[   4567   ]
  bet 11=lose=-11=-33


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

120. W8

[   4567,11   ]

bet 15==win=15=-18



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

128. L16

[    567    ]

   bet 12=lose=-12=-30



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
129. L1

[ 567,12]

   bet 17=lose=-17=-47

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

130. L2

[ 567,12,17]

bet 22=lose=-22=-69
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

132. L4

[ 567,12,17,22]

bet 27=lose=-27=-96

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

136. W8

[ 567,12,17,22,27]

bet32=win=-64

==================
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

144.L16

[  6,7,12,17,22, ]

bet28=lose=-92

and so on....

Quote from: BEAT-THE-WHEEL on July 21, 2014, 05:59:12 AM
Hi Law,

I do a [LABBY, start from 1unit], which I think will not facing huge
drawdown and will not killed by the deadly MARTY in the last few
spins!!!HP Johnson can't face Marthy as u already know.

  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

bet only 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16,...
repeat at 17th spin

1. L   1st bet
2. L   2nd bet
3. L
4. W   3rd bet
5. W
6. L
7. W
8. W  4th bet
9. L
10. L
11. L
12. W
13. L
14. L
15. L
16. L 16[bet= as 5th. ]
17. L1    as bet6th
18. L2  as bet 7th
19. L
20. L4   as bet 8th
21. L
22. L
23. L
24. W8
25. W
26. L
27. L
28. W
29. L
30. L
31. L
32. L16
33. L1
34. L2
35. W
36. W4
37. W
38. W
39. W
40. L8
41. L
42. W
43. L
44. W
45. W
46. L
47. L
48. W16 and so on...



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Below I do a LABBY start from a single 1

-------------------------
1st spins. Lose

start labby as
  [1]

bet 1=lose=-1=-1
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


2nd. =Lose   2nd bet

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



4th spin. =W   [3rd bet]

[112]
bet3=win=3=0

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


8th.= Win  [4th bet]

[1]
bet 1=win=1=+1 win, reset.[total win=+1]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



16th. =L [5th bet]

start labby as [1]

bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





17. L1

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



18. L2

[112]
bet 3=lose=-3=-6

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



20. L4

[1123]

bet 4=lose=-4=-10


24. W8

[11234]

bet5=win=+5=-5

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

32. L16

[ 123 ]

bet 4=lose=-4=-9

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

33. L1

[ 1234 ]

bet 5=-5=-14
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

34. L2

[ 12345 ]

bet 6=lose=-6=-20
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

36. W4

[ 123456 ]

bet 7=win=+7=-13

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

40. L8

[  2345  ]

bet 7=lose=-7=-20

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

48. W16

[  23457  ]

bet 9=win=+9=-11

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

49. W1

[   345   ]

bet 8=win=+8=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



50. W2

[    4    ]

bet 4=win=+4=+1  reset. total=win=2
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

52. W4[count as4

[1]
bet 1=win=+1.  reset. total=win=3


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

56. L8

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

64. W[16]

[11]
bet2=win=+2=+1.  reset. total=win=4

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

65. L1

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
66. W2

[11]
bet2=win=+2=+1.  reset. total=win=5

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

68. L4

[1]
bet 1=lose=-1=-1
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

72. L8

[11]
bet 2=lose=-2=-3

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

80. W16

[112]
bet 3=lose=-4=-7

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
81. L1

[1123]
bet 4=lose=-4=-11

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

82. L2
[11234]

bet 5=lose=-5=-16

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
84. L4

[112345]
bet 6=lose=-6=--22
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

88. L8

[1123456]

bet 7=lose=-7=-29

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

96. L16

[11234567]
bet 8=lose=-8=-37

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

97. L1

[112345678]
bet 9=lose=-9=-46

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

98. W2

[1123456789]
bet 10=win=10=-36


xxxxxxxxxx

100. W4

[ 12345678 ]
bet 9=win=9=-27

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

104. L8

[  234567  ]
bet 9=lose=-9=-36

xxxxxxxxxxx

112. L16

[  2345679  ]
bet 11=lose=-11=-47


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

113. W1

[  2345679,11  ]
bet 13=win=13=-34
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

114. W2

[  345679  ]

  bet 12==win=12=-22

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


116. L4

[   4567   ]
  bet 11=lose=-11=-33


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

120. W8

[   4567,11   ]

bet 15==win=15=-18



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

128. L16

[    567    ]

   bet 12=lose=-12=-30



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
129. L1

[ 567,12]

   bet 17=lose=-17=-47

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

130. L2

[ 567,12,17]

bet 22=lose=-22=-69
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

132. L4

[ 567,12,17,22]

bet 27=lose=-27=-96

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

136. W8

[ 567,12,17,22,27]

bet32=win=-64

==================
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

144.L16

[  6,7,12,17,22, ]

bet28=lose=-92

and so on....

Hey Beat,


It appears that you are using  the original Labby betting first and last numbers. I use single line bets only with all of the Labbys that I play (only betting first line-not first and last), as it seems to provide more flexibility in betting. My only concern with betting first and last is that it will eventually create too many bets to recover. If the betting selection can handle the original Labby, then it can handle a 3-lin no problem.


Question : Does the betting selection that you use provide a better overall distribution than just every other spin?

Hi Law,
no, my bet selection no better than others.
Maybe u could modified the Labby start from 1, into better choice.
thanks.