Very interesting. I tried a grand martingale method, it failed. What you are doing with your MM is referred to as "regression technique." It's a tried and true method.   

I'm in the H&R trick makes no difference camp. I'll run some tests.

I know by the large numbers that I used that the true strike rate is near 5.5 to 1.  I'm still not ruling out the possibility that regression might overcome a (7-1) vs (5.5-1) .

There's an 1 in 8 chance that you will lose  a three step, even chance, progression. Those dang zeros again. That's where this kills you. It's very easy to watch for sleeping zeros.

If they are very active then don't make that session's bet.

Quote from: subby on November 17, 2012, 04:01:55 PM
That is a MASSIVE jump and one I wouldn't do myself. Perhaps a 15, 30, 60 would give you full recovery plus 1 so you don't lose. Double losses occur and to lose 280 alone as a 2nd bet would take ages to recover in the first step you do.

Hi. guys


i know that is a massive jump, but i have the BR to cover it.
my thinking on this is to have two separate BR.
one BR for the first round... always keep that at 2,4,8 let the solid stike rate recover any losses

and then a separate BR for a round two bet..... not so much playing the second round as a recover bet, but more as a separate game, with separate BR. using the first round loss as a betting trigger..

just my take on things ill keep you guys posted on my results!

That's pretty much the issue...bankroll. If you have the BR to easily absorb a 280 unit loss, without losing the head, then you're doing just fine 


There are various money management strategies out there and John's 3 tier option is one for those that play multiple games each day = 15+ ( I class a game as a chance to win once or have a total loss)

For those with a lower BR and are prepared to put 6-8 months into a grinder then you can read over my take on MM for this PB method

Quote
If a total loss is 7 units (betting 1, 2, 4 units) and you just suck up any loss and never increase your bet, then your bankroll needs to be 20 times a loss....minimum.

Why 20 you may ask?

It's to do with the "fear/panic factor" when we take a loss.

Say you have a bankroll of £100 (I'm using GPB £'s as I'm from the UK) say you have that 100 bankroll and you were playing £5 units, due to the fact you didn't really know much about money management techniques. Your 3 bets would be £5, £10, £20 - That's a loss of £35 which against a £100 bankroll is over a third. If you lose a third of your bankroll then the fear can creep into your mindset and make you try to recoup some of it back fast...You've just lost a third of your bankroll, that's a scary thought and one that catches MANY people out and makes them chase a quick recovery. We all know that this can be fatal to your remaining bankroll. NEVER CHASE - PATIENCE WINS....NOT RASH "FAST RECOVERY" BETS

BUT...and here is where the "20 times" bankroll mindset comes in...When you take a loss of £35 but your bankroll is in excess of £700, well, that's a SERIOUSLY less fearful loss when you look at your bankroll 1/20th which is mentally a LOT easier to take and even walk away with a "Oooh nice one random, you got me there but I@ll get you the next time"...perhaps with a wry smile from you too

This is just my money management suggestion for pattern breaker -

ASSUMING £1 is 1unit

Ideally you need a BR to be at as a MINIMUM-
£140 to bet £1 units
£280 ...........£2 units
£420 ...........£3 units
£560............£4 units
£700............£5 units

I'd suggest that, ON AVERAGE, you stick with £5 units as you only need to play 2-4 games a day to take out a nice amount of money at the end of each month for life's nicer things (holiday, presents for kids etc) You can of course ignore this and go ahead and bet your comfort unit size.

£840 ...........£6 units
£980............£7 units
£1120..........£8 units
£1260..........£9 units
£1400..........£10 units

I'd also suggest that you reach the next bankroll mark before betting the corresponding unit size. By that I mean this

Wait until your bankroll is £280 BEFORE MOVING UP TO £2 UNITS...i.e. stay at £1 units until your BR is £280 ONLY THEN move up to using £2 units and so on....wait until your BR is at £420 BEFORE MOVING FROM £2 UP TO £3 UNITS

If you have a substantial BR like £3,500

You can then look at really serious money making by using units worth £25 betting sequence would be something like £25, £50, £100.

With a bankroll that size you can perhaps afford to cover the green Zero on the last bet with perhaps a £5 on green zero as insurance...each to their own on that green zero bet though. I cover green on my last bet as I@ve hit it so many times on a final bet.

Remember to keep your BR in your own savings account though and not all in a casino account  Let the interest grow it as well as your game play winnings 

If you have a bankroll of 100 units and you lose 7 (1 total loss for pattern Breaker) that's not much really of a % loss of your overall bankroll.

Play 6 games in one day and from experience you will get 3 or 4 days of no losses which will let you build your bankroll up when you DO finally lose a game. Remember it is an ULTRA MARATHON...not a sprint

---a game is HIGH/LOW
---a game is ODD/EVEN
---a game is RED/BLACK

So if you're tracking all 3 then you only play twice day! If you only play 2 methods ( I personally only play ODD/EVEN and HIGH.LOW as I found RED/BLACK loses more often due to the board layout) then you'll log in 3 times a day for 2 games each time...of course you can play less...the call is yours - JUST REMEMBER TO SET YOURSELF A GOAL AND DON'T TRY TO PLAY TOO MUCH OR BE GREEDY - Ultra marathon remember!!

If you say to yourself...today I'm going in to play 6 games only ...then that EXACTLY what you do. Regardless of if you get six wins in those 6 games, or four wins and two loss etc...

Never play more than six games in one day. More often than not you will win all six games and you can go 2 or 3 days or more when you win all six games.

The more you play consistently at one table the more likely that random will find a way to beat you. I know most people don't believe in playing hit and run but I swear by it. I think that there are long periods in a day when things will go your way in numbers spun by the wheel but if you play long hours then you'll be more likely to hit one of the times in the day when numbers will go against you. Just my opinion.

If you play hit and run for six games there is more chance of you playing in the zone when things will go your way. If you play longer then there is more chance that you'll also hit the bad zone when things will go against you...like hitting a triple spun number etc..

Take the LONG outlook view for playing a method...it's a REAL hard grind at the start to get your bankroll up high but if you can do it, the rewards are there for sure.

Say you play 5 games a day (I use 5 as an easier example for number adding purposes as opposed to 6) of PATTERN BREAKER for 30 days...that's 150 games in one month...just as an example ok.

Taking a 10win to 1loss view then you can expect, from that 150 games, something like...

130 wins of 1 unit = 130 units

You'll expect to hit 10-13 losses over that month's worth of 150 games which works out at - 7units x 13losses = 91 units lost - I'LL USE 90 AS AN EVEN FIGURE TO EXPLAIN

130units won - 90 units lost = 40 units profit for the month


40 units @ £1 or €1 doesn't sound much...but if you build on that and do this a number of months so your bankroll lets you play £5 or €5 units....then that 40 units profit each month x £5/€5 = 200 which is a nice earner each month.

...take it one stage further like the poster called Pilot has...where your 1 unit is £50/€50 then multiply that by 40 units profit each month...2,000!!!   That is where you want to be. BUT...and this is the HUGE BUT...it is the patience needed to GET your small bankroll up to a huge level that is the hard part. Playing the system isn't hard, it's the mental ability to stick to a method that seems to be going slowly...only for it to explode after 5-6 months.

Can you do that 5-6 months play to get your BR up? That's the key.

Say you started with £100 bankroll

End of month 1 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £100 plus 40units you win = £140 betting £1 units

End of month 2 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £140 plus 40units you win = £180 betting £1 units

End of month 3 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £180 plus 40units you win = £220 betting £1 units

End of month 4 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker going to be about £220 plus 40units you win = £260 betting £1 units

End of month 5 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker going to be about £260 plus 40units you win = £300 betting £1 units

At this stage...£300 in our BR...we've now gone past the "bankroll needed to move up a unit value" (20 times a total loss) 7 units as a loss x 20 = £140units

I'd also suggest that you reach the next bankroll mark before betting the corresponding unit size. By that I mean this

Wait until your bankroll is £280 BEFORE MOVING UP TO £2 UNITS...i.e. stay at £1 units until your BR is £280 ONLY THEN move up to using £2 units and so on....wait until your BR is at £420 BEFORE MOVING FROM £2 UP TO £3 UNITS


Ideally you need a BR of 140 to bet £1 units
£280 ........................£2 units
£420 ........................£3 units
£560.........................£4 units
£700.........................£5 units


You're at end of month 5 and now with a BR of over 300 it allows you to move the unit value up from £1 up to £2 units


End of month 6 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £300 plus 40 you win(BUT NOW £2 UNITS INSTEAD OF THE £1 unit) = £300 BR plus (40 units won x £2) = £380

End of month 7 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £380 plus 40 you win(BUT NOW £2 UNITS INSTEAD OF THE £1 unit) = £380 BR plus (40 units won x £2) = £460

At this stage you can move up to £3 unit values form the £2 as you've passed the threshold for moving up a unit value while still having 20 times a total loss as your BR

End of month 8 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £460 plus 40 you win(BUT NOW £3 UNITS INSTEAD OF THE £2 unit) = £460 BR plus (40 units won x £3 = 120) = £580 <- new unit value threshold

At this stage you can move up to £4 unit values from the £3 as you've passed the threshold for moving up a unit value while still having 20 times a total loss as your BR

End of month 9 -
Bankroll is, on average with Pattern Breaker, going to be about £580 plus 40 you win(BUT NOW £4 UNITS INSTEAD OF THE £3 unit) = £580  BR plus (40 units won x £4 = 160) = £740

...and so on

***REMEMBER THAT THIS IS AN ULTRA MARATHON - NOT A SPRINT!!!!*** 9 months sounds a LOT and will take a LOT of dedication

You can see not a lot of movement in the unit value for the first 6 months but then it starts to rocket when you have a BR big enough to let you bet higher unit values. It's this 9 month plan that we should all be sticking too  which will let us fleece the casinos for all we can get

You can accelerate your speed if you place £50 each month into your bankroll as a topup - ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE WORKING AND CAN AFFORD TO!!! Remember don't bet with money you need to pay bills and eat!!! 

Quote from: JohnLegend on November 17, 2012, 03:50:09 PM
Bcboilermaker GREAT to see you overhere. Please start posting your results overhere  25/1 is amazing but how many games have you played to date?? Wow that's quite a step up. I personaly don't go that heavy. DOUBLE LOSSES happen about 75/1 in my experience. So I stake


2--4--8 on step one, and 6--12--24 on the follow up bet. The idea is to recover a big portion of the loss. The strikerate takes care of the rest.

Im using a three level staking plan as posted by Subby above. Good bet selection, money management and H.A.R...You are going to profit for sure.

thanks john.
nice to see you as well, stepkvh, subby, TCS, twister. 


I will be posting here from now on.
over at .cc I would be considered delusional, and mentally unstable.... those guys got a lot of nerve. lol... considering Im 28 years old,  hold two journeyman tickets, as a boilermaker mechanic and a welder....I have actually earned and bled for the money I gamble with... I don't need somebody else trying to dictate how and when and where I should or be getting my gambling advice.  lol its ridiculous.


but anyway to date I have played a few hundred PB games.


When I joined the forum, I have been learning , practicing many systems and experimenting at the same time. So I was not really recording my results....
but know with confidence I can play a few methods... and really track my results!


I understand my staking plan my be unconventional, but its my money I will see what happens for my self.


if a strike of 10/1 round one
75/1 ?  round two... that is where I see the real strength. play more games at more tables to create the second round betting opportunity.
like I say... "my style" I will keep you posted on results

anybody out there with program/coding expertise. could you create a pattern breaker tracker  that works for  either IOS for iphone, or an android app.... that would make it really easy to track in B/M casino?!?

Quote from: bcboilermaker on November 17, 2012, 11:56:43 PM

thanks john.
nice to see you as well, stepkvh, subby, TCS, twister. 


I will be posting here from now on.
over at .cc I would be considered delusional, and mentally unstable.... those guys got a lot of nerve. lol... considering Im 28 years old,  hold two journeyman tickets, as a boilermaker mechanic and a welder....I have actually earned and bled for the money I gamble with... I don't need somebody else trying to dictate how and when and where I should or be getting my gambling advice.  lol its ridiculous.


but anyway to date I have played a few hundred PB games.


When I joined the forum, I have been learning , practicing many systems and experimenting at the same time. So I was not really recording my results....
but know with confidence I can play a few methods... and really track my results!


I understand my staking plan my be unconventional, but its my money I will see what happens for my self.


if a strike of 10/1 round one
75/1 ?  round two... that is where I see the real strength. play more games at more tables to create the second round betting opportunity.
like I say... "my style" I will keep you posted on results

Bc you earned it, you can do what you like with it. I will only ever suggest how I do things. Yes a certain forum owner has a lesson coming his way next year.


To actually call most of the members deluded and unintelligent. But we move forward. This method is a keeper. If you have STAYING POWER.


I have such respect for Subbys mindset for this game. He is going a long way over the next few years. He has the same tenacity and discipline as CHAUNCY47. And that spells longterm success.

Quoteboilermaker mechanic and a welder

LOL me too mate, at one point I had my full set of codes, mainly welded with DC low hydrogen pipework for air conditioner systems, preasure vessels were my favourite though, there's nothing better than sitting in a black tin can breathing fumes lol.

That was about 20 years ago, now I code for web applications, which also made it possible to code bots n trackers etc for roulette. So even as a welder/boilermaker you too can code your own things if you put your mind to it.

QuoteI don't need somebody else trying to dictate how and when and where I should or be getting my gambling advice

It's your cash, if you can afford to lose it and won't starve if you do, then do with it as you want to, your choice buddy.

Quote from: Superman on November 18, 2012, 07:58:04 AM

LOL me too mate, at one point I had my full set of codes, mainly welded with DC low hydrogen pipework for air conditioner systems, preasure vessels were my favourite though, there's nothing better than sitting in a black tin can breathing fumes lol.

That was about 20 years ago, now I code for web applications, which also made it possible to code bots n trackers etc for roulette. So even as a welder/boilermaker you too can code your own things if you put your mind to it.
 
It's your cash, if you can afford to lose it and won't starve if you do, then do with it as you want to, your choice buddy.

Wow Superman, that was quite a career change. 

RESULTS UPDATE FOR PATTERN BREAKER ON BV FOR 18/11/2012

TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 150

TOTAL GAMES WON 140

TOTAL GAMES LOST 10

STRIKERATE 14/1

DOUBLE LOSSES ZERO

TREBLE LOSSES ZERO

LONGEST SINGLE WINNING STREAK (CURRENT) 45 RED--BLACK

LONGEST COMBINED WINNING STREAK 32 HIGH LOW--ODD EVEN

SHORTEST SINGLE WINNING STREAK 3 RED BLACK

SHORTEST COMBINED WINNING STREAK 4 HIGH LOW--ODD EVEN


The strikerate has settled into familiar territory, RED AND BLACK continues to surprise me. And now has a winning streak that has outlived the other two by 13 games.

Live the longest winning streaks I've had over the last year are 34 for HIGH LOW. 26 for ODD EVEN. And 23 for RED BLACK. So 45 for RED BLACK on BV is impressive. Next update at 175 played games.

JL,

From when do these stats apply?  In post 24 on this thread you palyed many more games.

Trebor

Quote from: Trebor on November 18, 2012, 10:02:07 AM
JL,

From when do these stats apply?  In post 24 on this thread you palyed many more games.

Trebor

That's my overall results LIVE Trebor over the last 4 years. This is just my results on BV so far. 

Quote from: Superman on November 18, 2012, 07:58:04 AM

LOL me too mate, at one point I had my full set of codes, mainly welded with DC low hydrogen pipework for air conditioner systems, preasure vessels were my favourite though, there's nothing better than sitting in a black tin can breathing fumes lol.

That was about 20 years ago, now I code for web applications, which also made it possible to code bots n trackers etc for roulette. So even as a welder/boilermaker you too can code your own things if you put your mind to it.
 
It's your cash, if you can afford to lose it and won't starve if you do, then do with it as you want to, your choice buddy.

Hi. superman


I always enjoy reading your posts.
Myself I work heavy industrial, oil refineries, pulp and paper mills,  and the such.
tho I'm currently off work for 6 months to upgrade my welding ticket a local college.


So with the "down time" from work , I may get my feet wet with some coding. I have  started to watch some training vids and such,  I will eventually learn.

For B/M play I thought about a phone app, that you could use to track pattern breaker and signal bets.... but that might not be practical because once your actually betting at the table you can no longer use your phone. 


That would a problem if you playing a recovery bet, and that recovery bet was a triggered immediately after a round one loss.. you may not have time to check your app/ or react to the immediate recovery bet.

so instead, little something I came up to make playing B/M casino easier.

basically just a card you can write down the groups of numbers, and then just cross off the patterns as they come up.

this should keep you organized and make tracking simple


[attach=1]

Quote from: bcboilermaker on November 18, 2012, 01:23:57 PM

For B/M play I thought about a phone app, that you could use to track pattern breaker and signal bets.... but that mite not be practical because once your actually betting at the table you can no longer use your phone. 


That would a problem if you playing a recovery bet, and that recovery bet was a triggered immediately after a round one loss.. you may not have time to check your app/ or react to the immediate recovery bet.

so instead, little something I came up to make playing B/M casino easier.
basically just a card you can write down the groups of numbers, and then just cross off the patterns as they come up.
this should keep you organized and make tracking simple


[attach=1]

that's all you ever really need BC, pen and paper has never been bettered for me.

QuoteHi. superman

I always enjoy reading your posts.
Myself I work heavy industrial, oil refineries, pulp and paper mills,  and the such.
tho I'm currently off work for 6 months to upgrade my welding ticket a local college.

Glad to hear you enjoy my posts mate, yeah I did a few shutdowns at a big refinery, rotating the pipes etc, replacing valves, who would have thought crude oil could wear the inside of pipes as much as it does? amazing really.