Quote from: albalaha on January 06, 2013, 12:24:27 PM
Bayes,
    I always agree upon what u say because u r the least biased person I have ever seen but how can we see whether a wheel has actually biased or it is a temporary variance merely?

Well, we're getting into advantage play methods now, but for the wheel (I'm not talking about outside bets, which are unlikely to be temporarily biased in the true sense of the word), you would generally look for some corroborating evidence OTHER than statistics. E.g., the humidity of the environment, or some physical bias which doesn't manifest UNLESS the wheel is spun slowly, etc. It's a complex subject and one which I'm not qualified to discuss, but the statistics are used only as confirmation that there is some physical cause of the apparent bias.

Quote from: albalaha on January 06, 2013, 12:24:27 PM
Bayes,
    I always agree upon what u say because u r the least biased person I have ever seen but how can we see whether a wheel has actually biased or it is a temporary variance merely?

I have experiment where experts were meausuring in very precise boundaries how much actualy takes for a wheel to have "bias"


I won't bother with detailed numbers in tests, although they were amazing.


This is the conclusion.



Tilting the wheel to 1.35° led to a greater than 99.9% probability that the results were the
result of a "bias" on the wheel. Reducing the angle of tilt reduced the probability figure, but
even at an angle of only 0.1°, a probability of 98% that the wheel was "biased" was still
obtained. The results in the other three planes gave repeatable results, with the lowest
probability still in the region of 98%. An analysis of the peak segment numbers also indicates
that the "bias" appears to move in relation to the plane in which the table is tilted.


So BIAS is  AP method which has the widest possibility of exploring in casino, and in practice it is very very hard to have perfectly leveled wheels without some degree of bias.


On contrary, to find it, and use it against casino takes enormous amount of time and spins. We are talking about several thousands of spins to get sure confirmation.


And be sure that whenever some fat giant guy leans on the table while you are playing, you have biased/wheel/ results and you don't have perfect random results 
(if the wheel is not deatached from the table, which is best countermeasure for this)


Cheers


Drazen

Quote from: albalaha on January 06, 2013, 09:27:40 AM
I agree 100% with spike. All numbers are same and these so called "group" of bets like Red/black, dozens/columns etc. upon table is made to fool us. If someone looks for a pattern in ECs, it is like trying to mislead oneself.

I take it then that you have never taken advantage of a perfect occurring pattern? I love fooling that incredible amount of extreme variance money into my wallet. I especially like the part where other players around me give me that 'deer in the headlights' look.

What seems to be foolish to others can often surprise you. Patterns come in all shapes and sizes. I'll give you a free one that will haunt you for the rest of your life. Everything is a loose similarity of a recurrence of past sequencing, with a slight quality of imperfections to the same. To the individual that can see this goes the spoils.

Who's to say whom the "fools" are?

Quote from: spike on January 05, 2013, 11:07:31 PM
8 years. At a game you don't even understand.

Let me give an example. You state over and over that
the outcomes from H/L are somehow different than
those from R/B and O/E. This is patently false and
here's why.

The wheel has 37 pockets. We number them for the
sake of keeping track of them. The pockets don't
know they have numbers. They don't know half of them
are high and half are low, half are red and half are black,
etc.

On an unbiased wheel, which is most wheels, the ball
falls in the pockets randomly, it doesn't play favorites. In
the end, all pockets come up an equal number of times.

Every pocket is a combination of H/L  O/E  R/B. To say H/L
comes up differently than O/E or R/B is a physical impossibility.
Its foolishness to think so. Its even more foolish to state that
its true. Yet you do it all the time and expect a complete
falsehood to be taken as fact because you say so.

If you ever want to be taken seriously, study the game and learn
how it works first. Otherwise you'll just be talking to yourself.

I never said there's a difference between the three even chances. Look at the physics of the game. it's a ball travelling around a numbered wheel. As you said it knows nothing of what its moving around.

NOW! Look at the layout of the wheel. And tell me there's no difference between the layout of HIGH LOW-- ODD EVEN. And that of RED BLACK.

don't ever talk down to me in a condescending manner Spike. I know things about this game that will rewrite the history books when Im done.

Translating those things to more open minds. Is all I will do. You will still be doing plenty of talkng this time next year. But it won't matter then.

Actions speak louder.

I truly feel sorry for those that are stuck on magical beliefs. It's one of the primary causes of problem gambling. There's no talking to them.

Quote from: JohnLegend on January 06, 2013, 02:50:58 PM


don't ever talk down to me in a condescending manner Spike.

I don't know any other way to talk to you. If I said
what I think of you and your methods, I would be
banned permanently. I have zero respect for you
and the blather you spew.

Of course you said H/L are different than R/B and O/E,
we even had a discussion about it. You can't change
what you said in the past just by waving your hand.
Magical thinking doesn't work in reality, you know.

Quote from: spike on January 06, 2013, 07:32:48 PM
I don't know any other way to talk to you. If I said
what I think of you and your methods, I would be
banned permanently. I have zero respect for you
and the blather you spew.

Of course you said H/L are different than R/B and O/E,
we even had a discussion about it. You can't change
what you said in the past just by waving your hand.
Magical thinking doesn't work in reality, you know.

MAGICAL THINKING??

You don't know All my methods. And again I never said there was a difference between H/L and O/E.


I SAID THERE WAS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THE RESULTS. I attained with those two-even chances and RED BLACK. And im not alone in this finding.

And the general belief is it has something to do with the layout.

Do I seek your respect and acceptance? Absolutely not. Even when I've done the impossible you will avoid it. Your ego won't allow you to humble yourself to acknowledge you were wrong. And that's fine.

Easy to attack others who put themselves on the line. But still you offer up nothing of real substance that anyone can test to see if youre capable of what you claim. And that's typical, of people who claim much but will show nothing.

JL -" And the general belief is it has something to do with the layout."

Spooky. I had no idea there was a general belief or consensus regarding your claims.

Quote from: Gizmotron on January 06, 2013, 08:16:10 PM
JL -" And the general belief is it has something to do with the layout."

Spooky. I had no idea there was a general belief or consensus regarding your claims.

We are talking about the even chances in relation to results garnered for PB Giz nothing else.

Quote from: JohnLegend on January 06, 2013, 08:22:51 PM
We are talking about the even chances in relation to results garnered for PB Giz nothing else.

You have an uncanny gift for stating the obvious.

Quote from: Gizmotron on January 06, 2013, 08:24:16 PM
You have an uncanny gift for stating the obvious.

You just put JULY 19TH in your diary. That's the date you and all the other naysayers learn what I've known to be obvious for some time.

Quote from: JohnLegend on January 06, 2013, 08:33:13 PM
You just put JULY 19TH in your diary. That's the date you and all the other naysayers learn what I've known to be obvious for some time.

Just did. BTW, just curious, is that the day that they let you go?

Let's talk about advantage play for a moment. I think we all understand what that means. For my purposes here let's limit it to the ecart - that is, exclude anything that relates to the physical nature of the medium such as table or wheel bias.  What sort of advantages do you think we can find if we look into the  results as they unfold?  Gizmo has mentioned patterns and recurrence of past sequences, Bayes mentioned statistics, and JL some other method yet to be disclosed.  Remember - there has to be a REASON why the advantage exists.  Hence it should be measurable.

Nathan - I really don't need this kind of stuff on my discussion.  Believe it or not I am actually trying to have a serious and worthwhile debate here.  With all due respect, may I suggest Aut tace aut loquere meliora silencio

thank you
Bryan

Quote from: JohnLegend on January 06, 2013, 08:02:43 PM

I SAID THERE WAS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THE RESULTS. I attained with those two-even chances and RED BLACK. And im not alone in this finding.

There can't be a slight difference in the results. The
fact you can't see that shows the huge flaw in your
thinking about random outcomes. That you're not
alone in your flawed findings is hardly news, most
people are flawed in their understanding of roulette.