- Remember while there are common traits in what everybody experiences, gambling is still a personal experience (i.e. subject A may go his whole life without seeing a series of 10 reds, while player B can get it when in his fist betting session at the casino).

- Do not pursue a professional gambling career, at most think about it as a possible way to bring some extra-income; never something to rely on for your livelyhood.

- Again, remember there are common traits in what everybody experiences , this is what you should attempt to expoit! I recall me seeing the same patters in a roulette wheel in Venezuela and Lionel (Lanky) seeing them the same in a roulette in Australia. It just can't be any other way. These traits or constants are called "PRINCIPLES", which are applicable to the game wherever you are, whoever you are.

- Face the game in SEPARATE GAMING UNITS, namely: the cycle.

- For straight-up numbers the cycle is no longer than 37 spins. You can exit earlier than 37 spins, but it should be an ironclad rule for you to stay at most 37 spins with any given cycle.

- Your main exit point for the cycle is when you are "up", even if +1 unit up, you should cut current cycle  there and start a new one or go home. This is VITAL. Cutting while you are up is what makes a difference in between a cumulative profit at the end of the month and a broken wallet.

- On a losing cycle you must cut your game, not a single extra spin, nor a single further bet. There is no spin #38 in serious cycle play.

- You don't need to lose it all when in the casino. Coming home with half a bakroll is better than coming home with no bankroll.

- You must always apply the principle of "MAXIMUM DRAWDOWN". You must exit when your next bet makes you go lower than what you brought for a session bankroll. Example of a Max. drawdown scenario: you come to the table with 100 chips/units, are up +45 and have a total of 145 chips now and your maximum drawdown at this point is 145 - 100 = 45 locked chips/units. When working the averages this mandatory principle makes a big difference -HUGE in fact! As opposed to the gambler whose stop-loss is leaving up to the last unit/chip to the casino.

- When you lose a session, "let it be". Do not rush to the cashier to get more money in game. Casino opens tomorrow too and you can have a fresh start.

- Play online if possible. The advantages of playing at a reputable online casino from the comfort of your home outweigh the advantages of playing in a land-based casino. You don't need to carry money on you or take risks at the street. On a winning session you can take a break of a long or as little as you wish. You can switch casinos (and roulette wheels!) with a few clicks. On a losing session, you spare the losing walk home, you are already home. And most importantly, you can KEEP TRACK of the cycle without having to use pen and paper (via software) and you can thwart the human-error factor!

- In my option, a very conscious way to play is "CONTINUATION", i.e. Whatever your trigger is, you first see it in front of you (realized in your tracking sheet/program), and THEN bet for it to continue showing. It is better to stay away from sleeping events, especially when a progression is involved. Roulette is a game without theoretical limits, if you aim for repetition of what's being realized you may have a better change of catching that streak which can get you up or recover from a temporary deficit. Practical example: say you are chasing the event number showing 3 times, then you wait for a number to show 3 times and THEN hunt for other numbers to follow suit.

- Bet EVENTS based on SOLID PRINCIPLES. A solid principle is that which is universal to the game and is backed by statistics. A solid principle is that which happens at almost every cycle. Some Examples: repeats, neighbors... those are events which are proven to appear.

- Triggers are triggers only, use them to form your STRATEGY. Your strategy can be tracking plenty of triggers in order to only attack them on their most likely frequency of appearance, sustaining the bets if they are showing better than they are expected to (i.e. hot).

- For land-based casino, you WILL need to practice a lot before you can master disc-based play by manual tracking. My advice is to practice for plenty of sessions and get used to "seeing" the events. You will need to memorize the wheel at first so you can almost automatically locate last spun number and correlate it with others as quick as possible in between spins.

- Remember: The roulette wheel is a "closed universe". The wheel/disc is like a mini-universe where there is something going on always. If it isn't landing in one half, it's landing on the other. Don't discard in disc-based play you might find the consistency you need to work your events for the cycle. Study the "final picture" for a lot of 37-spin cycles, as well as how they form. Learn to spot formations and clumpings. Chances are there'll be loaded areas, you can focus in them as they develop.

- It is a good idea to have an array of disc-based events. You can look for them to realize within the cycle and hunt them for CONTINUATION. Cut the cycle when up (even +1) on a win. In the event of a loss, cut your cycle using MAXIMUM DRAW-DOWN methodology, always respecting the cycle's length. Work with the averages. Compound your wins in between winning sessions to rise your base unit. REGRESS to the very minimal unit value after a losing session, to lower the impact of concatenated losing sessions. Treat each cycle like a mini-universe, as the "GAMING UNIT" they are. Do not chase losses. Bet with a foundation of solid principles and trust your averages.

- Treat the game with respect because it is a business and an ongoing war, where no human errors can take place. Don't deviate from the session's bankroll. Be a robot at the table and detach emotionally from the game when in play.

- You are only concerned with "how much in" and "how much out" for your accounting book.

- "Bore yourself" by the natural fluctuating in your session, be indifferent when temporarily getting in the minus (knowing you played your maximum draw-down right), and have fun when leaving on a win, rushing away from the table and enjoying it with your family.

Regards,
Victor

Quote from: Lady KWhat makes the difference between a pro, a semi-pro, and a regular player?

PRO = only means of living derive from gambling.

SEMI-PRO = Job + supplementing the income with gambling. Treats the game with respect and has the same professional attitude towards the game as the PRO, but keeps the job at all times in order to spare the perpetual trauma of "eating if the ball lands in the correct pocket" or "paying the rent if the cards come in a good way".

Regular player = Also known as: "Chip scatterer", "Random bettor" or leisure player. Only wagers for the sake of it. Bets birth dates, does not have any type of systematic play nor strategy (other than the last chip = stop-loss) and loves to go with lat-minute intuition, and in the end it is all random betting to the regular player, because "there is no way", "it's all luck" and "the only earning is fun"... you know the type.

99.99...% of players in a casino qualify for it, and they are the reason why the other two types of players can exist and the reason casinos can rest assured their business will never end.

Quote from: Lady KIf a person were able to win more than they lose on a regular basis.  .  .    would they be considered a semi-pro?

As long as they keep an alternate means of income, then yes.

This is the only goal I can recommend anyone to pursue. The mental stress deriving from relying 100% on gambling to eat is way too much for a regular person to take, especially if that person is the support of a family. It should be avoided at all costs. This is part of "playing responsible", and believe it or not, there is a "win responsible" too.

Even if someone is consistently winning at the casino the fact of he/she not wanting to take a regular job and therefore force the significant other and the family to the social uncertainty derived from being a PRO gambler,  can cost a person a marriage --or two ...or more! (ask Ivica/Iboba and his former 6 wives!).

Yours,
Victor

Quote from: Lady KI would love to hear your thoughts about progressions, and whether you have a favorite?

My thoughts are: Try to avoid explosive negative progressions. The 1-hit-recoups-all type is the worst ever for the player. Martingale being the perfect example.

In fact, standard negative progressions on all locations are a form of "martingale".

So by deduction, when recommending a progressive scheme, I am a positive progression advocate. And they are what I recommend.

As for a personal favorite, the best positive progression for a session is to "compound" your units and increase your bankroll with wins to achieve win goal faster.

For instance: you start with 100 units and win +20, now you have 120 units.

You divide 120 / 100 and now your base betting unit is 1.2

You keep it at that level until you reach a new plus after a win. -Say you reach +135.

135 / 100 = 1.35 as base unit.

As base unit grows, so does your win level per spin, while at the same time maintaining the same amount of unit for your maximum draw-down.

Always round DOWN when you can't put the exact unit amount. It is recommended to have a base unit at least divisible by 10. (i.e. in a $1 dollar table, have a $0.10 chip available)

You need a decent bet selection, but this does indeed helps in achieving your win-goal faster and staying shorter at the table. Which is always a plus.


Now, that being the "favorite" in-session positive progression, my advice for real-money play is to play flat and do the progression inter-session.

I consider pulling a profit flat betting to be a more advanced way, as in actually beating the game; a flat betting advantage is one you can rely on.

Regards again,
Victor

QuoteThank you Victor!

Disc-play is completely new to me, but I have noticed repeated patterns on the table that seem to vary, depending upon the particular bet one is playing.  Most systems/strategies are based on exploiting these patterns, and most (or is it all?) seem to have a positive and negative cycle.  Is there a rule of thumb that one could follow as to when these cycles "peak", in order to know when to stop? Or do these positive/negative cycles fluctuate randomly also?

Hugs,
Kathryn

Yes. Cycles can fluctuate.

Your only choice is to accommodate your unit to the lowest when losing and maximize it on concatenated wins.

It is a good idea to divide wins in 3 stacks:

- Reinvest stack.
- Reserve stack.
- Net wins.

Little by little I hope you are getting a good grasp of the "big picture".

Playing small, independent cycles, maximizing wins, minimizing losses. Compounding and keeping a reserve.

Over to you

QuoteYes, I'm slowly grasping everything Roulette-related... so much to learn!   

Let me see if I understand correctly so far...

I start off by having a good bet selection based on solid principles. These have been tested and tweaked for triggers and found to consistently win more than they lose. I use these in my strategy when "advancing into battle".

Knowing when to stop is essential to success. Whilst playing the game, money-management is the key to stop/loss. You recommend a positive progression on wins... and a maximum draw-down on losses. So we are not chasing our losses, but recouping a loss through future wins in other sessions.

Quote from: VLS- You must always apply the principle of "MAXIMUM draw-down". You must exit when your next bet makes you go lower than what you brought for a session bankroll. Example of a Max. draw-down scenario: you come to the table with 100 chips/units, are up +45 and have a total of 145 chips now and your maximum draw-down at this point is 145 - 100 = 45 locked chips/units. When working the averages this mandatory principle makes a big difference -HUGE in fact! As opposed to the gambler whose stop-loss is leaving up to the last unit/chip to the casino.

The new maximum draw-down after winning +45 is now 45?
And therefore, no bet should make you go lower than 45?
And if it would, then it is time to exit, i.e. go home?
If you end the day winning... Do you continue the positive progression into the next day?
 
- Reinvest stack. This includes the positive progression from the last winning game. If I lose a session... I start over again with minimal unit value - the minimum BR being drawn from the reserve stack?
- Reserve stack. What percentage of the daily winnings should be reserved? Lanky once wrote that when he won a certain amount... instead of going home, he would continue to play (with those winnings only) ...and was able to build several reserved banks on the side. I imagine for unlucky streaks? 
- Net wins. This is what we are all looking for... 

The ball in now in your court... opps, I mean wheel/disc...     

Laughter & Light,
Lady K

QuoteI start off by having a good bet selection based on solid principles. These have been tested and tweaked for triggers and found to consistently win more than they lose.

Mechanical Triggers on their own are more likely losers!!

Be aware that the only loophole is to drop them when not showing and using them while they are showing. Why? Because the times you aren't betting a trigger (when it's not coming) the times you are saving losing the units as the casino accounts a continuous-play trigger bettor to lose at the rate expected. Instead of losing the units with the mechanical trigger that is not coming, you are making units with the trigger that is in place, which is currently delivering.

QuoteKnowing when to stop is essential to success. Whilst playing the game, money-management is the key to stop/loss. You recommend a positive progression on wins... and a maximum draw-down on losses. So we are not chasing our losses, but recouping a loss through future wins in other sessions.

Exactly. Never chase losses. A lost cycle shouldn't demolish your strategy. A concatenation of lost cycles should be faced with the very minimal unit after the first one, hence when you are losing "too close to each other" the casino can only take minimal units; but when you are winning consecutively, you take a larger chunk with an increased unit value from the compound. It makes a difference playing this way.

QuoteThe new maximum draw-down after winning +45 is now 45?
And therefore, no bet should make you go lower than 45?
And if it would, then it is time to exit, i.e. go home?

Right. End your session when next bet goes past your maximum draw-down.

QuoteIf you end the day winning... Do you continue the positive progression into the next day

You divide the wins 3-ways, and then rise your base unit according to what the reinvesting stack contributed to your first bank.
 
Example.

You use a 100-unit bank.

You made exactly +100 units (now there are 200 units in front of you)

You divide your +100 units 3-way:

- 33 units for reinvesting (increases first bankroll: 100 + 33 = 133 units now for first bank. Your session bankroll being 100 units, then you divide 133 / 100 = 1.33 as base unit for next session, and continue compounding as long as you are winning).

- 33 units for reserve (increases the "cushion" of minimal-unit banks between the casino and you; the more minimal unit banks you have in reserve, the better)

- 33 units for you. This is your prize for the won session; your NET WIN. As your unit increases the value this increases the actual amount of money you pull to your real-life pocket after each session!

QuoteIf I lose a session... I start over again with minimal unit value - the minimum BR being drawn from the reserve stack?

Exactly.

QuoteWhat percentage of the daily winnings should be reserved?

Parting 3-ways, it means 33% of total won in played session.

QuoteLanky once wrote that when he won a certain amount... instead of going home, he would continue to play (with those winnings only) ...and was able to build several reserved banks on the side.

This type of play is strict; once you reached your win goal, not a single more spin in the session.

Quote- Net wins. This is what we are all looking for...

Yes.

By compounding the unit size you make a better pocket. Over time.

QuoteThe ball in now in your court... opps, I mean wheel/disc... 

Oh! Talking about disc. Let me upload a printable disc/wheel.

Cheers!
Victor

Quote from: VLS on January 14, 2013, 02:45:23 PM
Oh! Talking about disc. Let me upload a printable disc/wheel.

This one I like because it has all numbers facing towards the player:

[attachimg=1]

Quote from: Lady KHi Victor,

I read your Million / Trillion Neighbors. Then I started playing and tracking the wheel, observing patterns. I noticed lots of neighbors, buddies, and best friends.    I also see repeaters, numbers spaced evenly apart, arcs, and teeth with gaps wanting to be filled.
Then last night, I read your Neighbors again and it all came together. Wow!   

Do you divide the wheel into sectors when tracking? I had the disc first split into 3, and then 4... and I read Kimo Li has 6 sectors.

Why have you chosen a 37-cycle? Is this somewhat flexible or to be strictly adhered to?

As I understand, if we are +1, or the 37 number cycle is over... we stop and start a new session. Can we play back to back, or is it better to take a break and/or change table? How many sessions would you suggest in one day?

As you advise, I do like to follow trends and ignore sleepers. You speak of continuation...  this trigger is an event we are looking for which could apply to any particular number, and when this event happens once, its more-than-likely going to happen again?

I really appreciate your Table Layout From the Wheel/Disc, which you posted... I was thinking I should do this and was pleasantly surprised to find the work already done for me. Thanks.

K

Quote from: iggivUnfortunately this alone is not working on  a long run (as it is)  but you can try it with some tweaks like:

strict money management, for example

50% of your bankroll stop-loss, wingoal 10% of your bankroll, then waiting for many spins before you come back. You can also combine this with other strategies.

but as it is (without small win goal) it is working on a short run only occasionally. Big losses will come very soon if you just keep playing. Test in RX carefully a lot before you try it on real money. Roulette is tricky, what seems to be winning on one wheel, may lose on others and vise versa. That's why using different spins from different casinos (with RX for example) is very important.
.....
And Frank Scoblete in his "Spin Roulette Gold" offers some similar strategy (not exactly the same) which may win occasionally as well. you can find it on Amazon. But again -- he is telling that it may not win on every wheel, rather on some of them with bias. you can find a possible bias like this quickly without clocking wheels. Your chances to win are not reduced on unbiased wheel like this, but if a wheel is biased you just may win with neighbors and repeats.
No guarantee though.

In general roulette kills consistent patterns on a long run, but on a short run they may win. So hit and run may help.

So be aware

And one more advice. Avoid betting on cold numbers like this. Track the spins, so if u wanna bet on a neighbour "inside the clamp" which did not show up within many spins, better don't

Quote from: Lady KI appreciate your advise Iggiv... and caution. 

Yes, I read Scoblete's book last December when I started on my journey into the world of gambling... he has an entertaining style of writing which makes for a good read.

I read many books, and played a lot on my own (learning by doing). But I only really started understanding how to play correctly, with stop/loss and money-management... here on the Forum.

And now that Victor has introduced me to disc-play, it has completely captured my fancy. I look forward to exploring this "wheel" on it's entirety.

Quote from: iggivit is hard. since roulette is random it does not like consistent patterns on a long run be it table or the wheel. but sometimes it looks like it is working on some wheels.

Quote from: VLSAgreed with Iggiv; caution is always a must in gambling 

If the patterns aren't there, just don't get stubborn. Look at how many people has gone broke because "it must show".

Good thing about roulette is that when something itsn't showing at the expected theoretical rate, it is because something else is showing at a bigger rate than expected, so you must keep your eyes open and never be stubborn.

In roulette being stubborn on a location (or getting in love with a certain selection or numbers) doesn't pay. The only thing your must learn to love in roulette is the constant change and the extremes; of course, when you ride it   

Quote from: VLS
>> Look at how many people has gone broke because "it must show"

Cycle play protects you to a certain extent from the negative extreme situations, since you have a definitive point of exit, you aren't going to be suffering situations like chasing a double-street for 60+ spins pumping money after money on something that just isn't showing (ask F_LAT!).

By only continuing what is currently appearing, you protect from those.

Limited cycles also equal to limited mistakes too. In case you mess a bet, you aren't going to have to suffer a huge downfall in your bankroll, like it can be -for instance- to a heavy progression player misplacing a chip and not hitting a spin where he should; especially on the last steps of a heavy progression.

Treating each cycle as a separate gaming unit has its benefits over other strategies, specially when dealing with such type of extremes.

Quote from: Lady KHello dear Victor,

I know you've been busy and me I've been practicing. 
As Iggiv mentioned and I agree, this may work on some wheels (I think some "types" better than others). I never trusted RNG but I have been practicing with one as I can go at my own pace while learning. They keep throwing so many repeaters at me (which could be a different game, LoL) it's difficult sometimes. I used colored pencils yesterday to see the "layers" more clearly and actually got a hit that way. I can imagine what my casino would think if I were to walk in there and start coloring, haha. It is interesting though to see what part of the wheel is more active as the repeats tend to clump together. Do you ever bet the repeaters? And I would like to ask, which do you prefer for this method: live, airball, and/or RNG? 

I answered my own question about length of play, when I read your Zone Maximum post. On the 18 spins after the 37-cycle there are sometimes so many dots! You wrote if there are large contiguous areas already hit, to bet the "lesser ones". Do you mean the dots without repeats, or around the one dot that may be standing alone still?
Do you continue and try another 18 spins whether you've had a hit or not?
What is the least amount of numbers you have bet at one time... and the most...?

I appreciate your comment about not getting stuck on certain numbers... yeah, I was doing that.
As for misplacing a bet... been there, done that too. Never play when you're tired!
Also your comment about keeping my eyes open... I now try to be more aware of everything happening, and go with the flow of what the wheel is doing at that particular moment.   

I like watching the design the ball makes when moving from one part of the wheel to the other. Fascinating really. That must be possible to track somehow.

Great fun this!
K

Quote from: LuckyLucyHi Victor so I'm a semi pro! cool, not a random chip thrower!

to be honest I used to be, but probably because when I first started playing on live super casino, while the presenters don't take you by the hand and say, oh you should do this etc, they do go on about hot numbers/cold numbers, numbers on the carosel, there favourite numbers etc.  if you are not an experienced player, or drunk! then it can influence your descion making. They also try to encourage you (a lot) to take the bonuses, as well, just quickly mentioning that there is wagering requirements.

I like your suggestions.