lol....ok...I succumb to your lyrical waxing.


See...I like milk, but wouldn't pour it over Fish and Chips. I like mystical stuff....but wouldn't pour it over roulette.


Gravy on fish and chips.....maths and probability on roulette (with a pinch of LOTT)

Albalaha - thanks for taking the time to reply.

Quote from: Albalaha on August 13, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
There has to be a standard to measure something.

So am assuming van Keelen's method is the standard for roulette testing? Is that right?

Quote from: Albalaha on August 13, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
if we do not know those logic we can't question them either.

don't take me wrong, I am not questioning the logic. I am simply asking if anyone understands the logic and share it so that i can understand it. I am no one to question the logic.

The problem i have got is I am starting to doubt whether there ever existed a mathematician existed called as Van keelen. Does anyone know anything about this mathematician, which century he belonged to etc or is the van Keelen test just scam without any basis.

Quote from: Albalaha on August 13, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
why a dozen have 12 count

Dozen comes from the french word douzaine which means a group of twelve, in turn from cardinal number douze which is 12. Supposedly, this practice of placing things in a collection of 12, originated from the practice of counting the finger bones in ones hand using the thumb. So using one hand you can count 12 and two hands you can count 144 which is also called "gross". This is my understanding of the practice behind counting in dozens and why it is 12.

Quote from: Albalaha on August 13, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
why a meter has 100 cm

A meter does not have 100 cm; a meter is divided into 100 cms. What it means is a metre is the fundamental unit of length. 1/100th of this measure is cm so on and so forth.

QuoteA meter does not have 100 cm; a meter is divided into 100 cms.

Oh, I never knew both things have different meanings. Do we argue for the sake of arguments or we wish to learn something?
Do you have any doubt that a method that does nothing to house edge, in long term can not  be profitable? Do you want to challenge the theory propounded by Van-Klein? Any hypothesis or assumption can win or lose in short run. It is the long run that matters. If a method has nothing to do with long run, it is a sure loser.

Albalaha - I wish to learn. I am very thankful that you took time to explain when I asked for a view. I am not arguing any point here, I am just trying to understand. So please don't take me otherwise.

I understand and concur with your view that if a method has nothing to do with long run it is a loser.  That is my belief as well.  But I am questioning my own belief here. My only question is what is long term and what is it based on? If it is 100000, why is it not a million or a 1000.  Does van keelen, if he existed, has any basis behind putting a 100000 number as the threshold or is it based on the fact that it is a large number? If there is a basis other than the fact it is a large number what is it?  Curious, and I don't expect you to know the answer. I am just politely asking whether you can share in case you know the answer.

Let me describe my problem in a bit more detail. I have a set of million spins that I downloaded from this forum. I split it into 10 sets, because I wanted to test an EC selection of mine. In 3 of the sets of 100000 spins it passed the van keelen test.  In 7 of them it failed.  Overall for million spins it failed.  So that means essentially it is a losing System and which has passed van keelen test 3 times. If van keelen hypothesis is right then the test results has to be consistent.

Am I missing a trick here?

Some interesting stuff here, http://www.win-maxx.com/basics/


14 years on and a lot of this is still being thrashed out today


Van Keelen is one of them

The Van Keelen Test Every serious system player is interested in an objective method, giving him information whether his system has a certain value and is going to produce a net profit in the long run. Beside the "Statistical Ecart" and other test options, with which we will deal in one of the next issues of Basics, "the Van Keelen Test" is a simple measuring procedure, with which the player can determine the chances of success or failure of his system. The Van Keelen Test, which was developed decades ago, will give the player information about the value of a system, and requires the player to check his system over a certain number of placed bets before he begins the practical play. This again has the advantage that possible losses only develop on paper and not in reality at the table! The Van Keelen Test sets into relationship the net gain of a system to the number of placed bets, whereby the minimum number of the placed bets checked for all chances must amount to at least 1000. The units wagered must be of equal value; no progression is to be used! It is very important to point out that we speak here of placed bets, not spins! To check a system over 1000 spins, has no meaning! This testing method has the inestimable advantage that a system must be checked at least over 1000 placed bets, and on this basis a prediction about the value of the checked system is possible. With 100000 *checked bets, even a negative result can be still another feature of a good system. Because if a system indicates a real superiority over ZERO, the possibility exists, that with an adapted progression continuous gains can be obtained. Even-Money-Bets (Black/Red/Even/Odd/High/Low): A system indicates a genuine superiority: 1. if after 1000 placed bets a gain of more than 100 units was obtained! 2. if after 8000 placed bets a gain of more than 60 units was obtained! 3. if after 100000 placed bets a result better than - 1000 was obtained* Twelve-Number-Bets (Dozens/Collumns): A system indicates a genuine superiority: 1. if after 1000 placed bets a gain of more than 50 units was obtained! 2. if after 8000 placed bets a gain of more than 50 units was obtained! 3. if after 100000 placed bets a result better than - 2000 was obtained* Six-Number Bets (Lines): A system indicates a genuine superiority: 1. if after 1000 placed bets a gain of more than 100 units was obtained! 2. if after 8000 placed bets a gain of more than 200 units was obtained! 3. if after 100000 placed bets a result better than - 600 was obtained*

@Leapyfrog,
              Are u placing bets in all 3 samples of 100k spins that you claim to win? If not, in how many u do? It is the number of placed bets that counts and not the number of spins. If you did not reverse engineer a data to use your method and it still wins 300k placed bets with an EC bet, it is amazing. If you bet every spin and still win, I am more than impressed. While if you bet on certain condition or "trigger", you may get misleading results in 100k spins since bets placed are not sufficient to conclude, in that span. They may still be affected from "temporary bias".
      Regarding your rigidity with "why 100k placed bets", I am not Van-Klein to answer this but this confirms to my own experiments too. A system winning over 100k placed bet without "reverse engineering" or "cherry picking" of betting favorable cases only, it is indeed very solid. I prefer to test any method of mine with the help of a tracker in excel having 1000 spins to atleast 100 times. If I say place bet in say half of the spins, I conclude only after assessing 200 random sessions.
I hope all these helps a bit.