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[Blue_Angel]

I've some questions which, hopefully, you can help me understand.

1.How possible is an, approximately, 80% of all forums' members to have a long term winning strategy such as yours?
2.Would not that be highly unlikely?
Now this question is not entirely hypothetical but based on my personal observation over the course of years;
3. There are not as many members as they used to be
4. From the fewer members there is significant less interest in participating on topics regarding strategies and in general about how to win on long term basis than what it used to be on the past
5. People prefer to discuss more about unrelated subjects rather than contributing all as a team to a mutual and beneficial cause/goal
6. More minds are able to achieve easier and better than a single alone
7. Even if you would share a long term winning method, do you think that all gamblers worldwide would read your topic?
8. Do you think that from those who would read it all of them would use it, let alone to the letter??
9. Do you think that casinos would close, stop roulette game, or even change its rules, which have never changed since 1 and a half century ago???
10. What is the real reason behind this behavior?
11. Don't you think that forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide under a common cause/goal?
12. Why they are not focused groups of individuals, instead we see too much blah blah speaking about nothing practically, or about promoting products and services to potential customers?
13. Why when there were important efforts a few persons derailed those topics and from the practical considerations we ended up striving to prove a point, defending our positions from the intruding negativity?
14. If some have found something which works AND don't desire to share it then what on earth are they doing here?
15. If they want to have a conversation and/or pass time then why they don't do it outside forums, with any other persons and/or activities??

To my great disappointment I came to realize that I'm speaking alone and the forums are not being used the way it's meant to be used!

[The Crow]

1.How possible is an, approximately, 80% of all forums' members to have a long term winning strategy such as yours?

80% are liars.


2.Would not that be highly unlikely?

Yes, highly unlikely.


3. There are not as many members as they used to be

Members are there, just unwilling to contribute.


4. From the fewer members there is significant less interest in participating on topics regarding strategies and in general about how to win on long term basis than what it used to be on the past.

Times change, people move on, same old ideas.


5. People prefer to discuss more about unrelated subjects rather than contributing all as a team to a mutual and beneficial cause/goal

Nobody wants to talk about roulette because they do not have strategies that are guaranteed to win. If they do, they will not be quick to talk about it, just observe.

6. More minds are able to achieve easier and better than a single alone.

Team building and participation are used in corporations to achieve the mission statements set forth by the CEO and Directors. In the roulette world, the player's mission is to make money, not to share, gambling is a selfish profession.


7. Even if you would share a long term winning method, do you think that all gamblers worldwide would read your topic?

I would never post a winning method on any public forum. Gamblers worldwide read my topics at private forums.


8. Do you think that from those who would read it all of them would use it, let alone to the letter??

No doubt.


9. Do you think that casinos would close, stop roulette game, or even change its rules, which have never changed since 1 and a half century ago???

They will never close. They will ban players, like card counters.


10. What is the real reason behind this behavior?

When you say this behavior, do you mean apathy? Nobody cares because most believe there is no winning strategy. Those who do believe it exist, they want it for free. There lies the issue.

Everyone wants something for nothing. No free lunches people. The most successful roulette players pay for their education.


11. Don't you think that forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide under a common cause/goal?

Yes forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide, share roulette stories, but not to disclose private strategies, only to say that winning strategies do exist.


12. Why they are not focused groups of individuals, instead we see too much blah blah speaking about nothing practically, or about promoting products and services to potential customers?

There are focused groups who share ideas. They belong to private groups who paid to learn a skill and can speak to one another freely. The players here do not deserve, always want something for nothing. You get what you pay for.



13. Why when there were important efforts a few persons derailed those topics and from the practical considerations we ended up striving to prove a point, defending our positions from the intruding negativity?

When someone offers an opinion, suddenly it's intruding and negative. It's a point of view, negative to some, factual to others. Is it wrong to tell someone not to disclose their information because the person is naive about their findings?

I don't like to see people being taken advantage, Gizmotron deserve better than that. But, if chooses to disclose his findings, that's on him. He will soon find out who his real friends are.


14. If some have found something which works AND don't desire to share it then what on earth are they doing here?


For obvious reasons, Why do you not share your best strategy that makes money? Why are you here?


15. If they want to have a conversation and/or pass time then why they don't do it outside forums, with any other persons and/or activities?

What makes you think that they do not have conversations elsewhere?

[alrelax]

Excellent post when I get time I'd like to give my two cents, I have some insight to some of the questions from a players perspective that is.

[Blue_Angel]

@ Crow, very honest reply, thanks.


@ AllRelax, please be my guest.


@ Everybody, I'm considering my response and soon will be posted.

[Blue_Angel]

1. How possible is an, approximately, 80% of all forums' members to have a long term winning strategy such as yours?

Highly unlikely.


2.Would not that be highly unlikely?

Of course.


Now this question is not entirely hypothetical but based on my personal observation over the course of years;
3. There are not as many members as they used to be.

Apparently.


4. From the fewer members there is significant less interest in participating on topics regarding strategies and in general about how to win on long term basis than what it used to be on the past.


This is my conclusion.


5. People prefer to discuss more about unrelated subjects rather than contributing all as a team to a mutual and beneficial cause/goal.


Unfortunately.


6. More minds are able to achieve easier and better than a single alone.


Not necessarily.


7. Even if you would share a long term winning method, do you think that all gamblers worldwide would read your topic?


No.


8. Do you think that from those who would read it all of them would use it, let alone to the letter??


No.


9. Do you think that casinos would close, stop roulette game, or even change its rules, which have never changed since 1 and a half century ago???


No.


10. What is the real reason behind this behavior?


I believe that it has to do with the ego like many other issues.


11. Don't you think that forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide under a common cause/goal?


That would have been the ideal, but people don't operate optimally in general.


12. Why they are not focused groups of individuals, instead we see too much blah blah speaking about nothing practically, or about promoting products and services to potential customers?


There are two main reasons, or the lack thereof, motivation and organization.


13. Why when there were important efforts a few persons derailed those topics and from the practical considerations we ended up striving to prove a point, defending our positions from the intruding negativity?


Human nature I guess, easily carried away of "path", covers too much on the "surface" but not in depth before he/she eventually realizes that life has passed.


14. If some have found something which works AND don't desire to share it then what on earth are they doing here?


Bragging and laughing with others for satisfying their ego.


15. If they want to have a conversation and/or pass time then why they don't do it outside forums, with any other persons and/or activities??


Who says they don't, someone who could gain money almost by demand most likely have plenty of time as well.

Thank all of you for your sincere replies!

[Jimske]

Lots of questions.  Maybe the following too simplistic but what made forums so popular in my opinion was the easily disseminated defined rule based systems that proliferated.  Humans like order and learning defined methodologies.  As gamblers began finally realizing that these are essentially betting and guessing games many gave up.  The ones that stayed and played developed their own strategies which don't have a lot in common with what is discussed on these boards.

[alrelax]

[OP's outline I copied and answered] As Follows: My answers/comments are in Blue.  Thanks, Alrelax.

1.How possible is an, approximately, 80% of all forums' members to have a long term winning strategy such as yours?

(IMO, no way to weigh the numbers, a total number as well as background on the majority of the members is actually unknown to me and everyone else.  There is greater self-hibernation from and caused by members, than that of exposure in reality).

2.Would not that be highly unlikely?

Now this question is not entirely hypothetical but based on my personal observation over the course of years;

(No way to answer)

3. There are not as many members as they used to be:

(Yes, I agree.  Lots went by the way side.  There was a couple years of aggressive membership, response and participation.  However, the repeated "bad" staff at WOV and VMB as well as the key members, all blasted everyone that did not conform to a very trivial and extremely little agenda.  As well, the focus has been greater on non-gaming agenda by far with almost all message boards rather than the other way around.)

4. From the fewer members there is significant less interest in participating on topics regarding strategies and in general about how to win on long term basis than what it used to be on the past.

(See my answer to number #3 above.  Similar by all means.  Members are down out tired of being repeatedly blasted by the continuous and repetitive one-liners, "you are wrong" and that is that, type of blasting, etc.  I have numerous emails, PM's, etc., that I have shared with Vic from previous very active members due to the aggressive circle of 4-5-6 or 7 members that made it their daily routine to blast, degrade, humiliate those that really did contribute to the board.  Sad but 100% true!)

5. People prefer to discuss more about unrelated subjects rather than contributing all as a team to a mutual and beneficial cause/goal.

(I see nothing wrong at all with "extra" talk, discussion, stories, whether about food, cites, Vegas or Atlantic City or other gambling destination, hobbies or sports.  Just take it to another part of the board and off the topic if the topic is a technical one.  What is wrong with that??)

6. More minds are able to achieve easier and better than a single alone.

(I agree, not one doubt about it.)

7. Even if you would share a long term winning method, do you think that all gamblers worldwide would read your topic? 

(Simply no.)

8. Do you think that from those who would read it all of them would use it, let alone to the letter??

(Simply and most definitely no.)

9. Do you think that casinos would close, stop roulette game, or even change its rules, which have never changed since 1 and a half century ago???

(Absolutely not.)

10. What is the real reason behind this behavior?

(People will not admit their short comings.  Stubborn beyond belief.  They choose to avoid being shamed, especially when it comes to losing money or failing to win it.  The more intelligent one person is, the harder it is for him to listen, research openly, apply what he learns, etc.  It is the psych of the older male, unlike a young pre-teen or a teenager.  We doom ourselves.  We each have to be the hero.  Plain and simple!!!!!)

11. Don't you think that forums are a great mean to connect people worldwide under a common cause/goal?

(Of course they are, but many do not wish to participate because of all the berating, humiliation and chastising.  I have that in writing from so many members that have stopped posting or will not post.)


12. Why they are not focused groups of individuals, instead we see too much blah blah speaking about nothing practically, or about promoting products and services to potential customers?

(Because people are too strong headed, know everything and are plain stubborn and will not work together, especially when money is concerned.)


13. Why when there were important efforts a few persons derailed those topics and from the practical considerations we ended up striving to prove a point, defending our positions from the intruding negativity?

(See my answer to #10 above.  Much the exact same!)

14. If some have found something which works AND don't desire to share it then what on earth are they doing here?

(Hard to answer without knowing whom and what it exactly is.  I share almost all, I am usually cut short but that previous circle of aggressive members we had on here.  AT times I just put a lot of work into the board and other come along and trash what I have to say or how I say it all.  I even posted pictures of actually wins and chips, and then I got blasted for so much along with that, it was fake, or I was showing off, or that was only a rarity, etc., etc., etc.)

15. If they want to have a conversation and/or pass time then why they don't do it outside forums, with any other persons and/or activities??

(Again, hard to answer without knowing the people and the exact situation each time.  But in general, it is nice to share certain things each of us would enjoy sharing, whether recipes for cooking, certain events, visiting casino or other properties (AKA; Trip Reports) such as we used to do in great detail on VMB with actually dates, times, details, plenty of pictures, etc., etc., etc.) 




To my great disappointment I came to realize that I'm speaking alone and the forums are not being used the way it's meant to be used!

Other reasons and answers:

Today more than yesterday, members feel as though, "why bear my soul, I don't even know these people"?

Without experience, one cannot or will have a real hard time to actually understand the casino aura and results, no matter what he thinks, he will have a tough psych time to handle wins of any size without staying there and eventually understanding the loss is forthcoming.

When a member or members make perfect sense from experience and reality on the board in technical terms and details, you can bet that there will be several others that will challenge, attack and undermine just that.  It is called drama, provoking, disturbing, and things along those lines.  It is not right or moral or ethical, but they continually do it for the sake of being in the forefront and then cry foul and discrimination when moderated. 

False positives whether lies or twists and turns of something basically accurate or the results of someone's experience, are basically killers.  Offering a false sense of what reality actually is as that same reality is changed, twisted and turned by the naysayers, the trouble makers, the aggressive group of members, etc., etc. and all of the results of same--hurts the serious members that want to engage, discuss, detail out and share the gaming experience they had or planning, etc.