I played the airball roulette made by IGT a lot 2 years ago. I never
felt quite right about it. The ball was shot onto the track by air and
the computer could alter the speed of the wheel. One thing that
bothered me was on wins over $1200 it was paid like a slot machine.
A slot attendant gave you IRS paperwork and she paid in cash. Why
was this looked at as a slot if it was random?

Last month I noticed the airball setup was gone from a local casino.
I found the shift manager and asked him why. Keep in mind this is
the shift manager, the guy in the $2000 suit who runs the whole
casino during his shift. He has the final say in everything, this isn't
some flunky floor person I talked to.

He said two guys from Chicago had beaten the airball machine out
of a few hundred thousand dollars a few months before. Apparently
airball isn't random at all, its run by an algorhythm and these guys
had cracked it. No wonder I never felt quite right about it, it was rigged
just like a slot machine is rigged. Consequently they got rid of the
airball as did several local casinos. The ones that kept it lowered the
time to make a bet down to 15 seconds which defeats anybody trying
to beat the program.

So beware of airball roulette, the outcomes are not random, they are
preprogrammed to pay out like a slot machine, which means if you play
your system on them, you aren't getting fair results.

I used to think the 'alfastreet' machines were rigged! But I am not so sure about that anymore. The wheel design was slightly different and it was probably just displaying unique characteristics specific to that particular type of wheel.

My gut tells me they are above board where I play at least and I am more than happy to play them.

The manager from my local Genting casino does play a bit of roulette himself at the Gala and I have seen him play the airball several times. So I am assuming that he would not play something like that if he had an inkling there was something dodgy about them.

Thanks for the heads up Spike.


These happenings would make for good movies : )


A player I know was really working air ball. He picked up on air pressure changes. Then after his account reached a very high amount of units won, albeit proportionality with .10 units, the air pressure applied completely changed.


ps
Floor people are not by definition flunky. Don't judge a book by its cover, you never know their story. They might have more valuable information then the casino manager.......

Quote from: Bally6354 on December 13, 2012, 10:56:37 PM


My gut tells me they are above board where I play at least and I am more than happy to play them.

You wouldn't know unless you had a system that won
more than it lost. Because you don't, you have no way
of testing the outcomes. It would have to be substantially
over 50% for you to tell if it was cheating you or not.

Quote from: spike on December 13, 2012, 11:09:14 PM
You wouldn't know unless you had a system that won
more than it lost. Because you don't,

That's probably why I thought the 'alfastreet' used to cheat and is why 100's of players up and down the UK think the F.O.B.T's are fixed. 

Those were the days my friend. 

Unless you can consistently win more than you lose,
there is no way to test a casino game. I suppose you
could sit there and record thousands of spins, but that
still might not prove anything.

spike!

Did you consider the shift manager was telling you a load of porkies about the 'algorhythms' and what he didn't tell you was that the piece of crapola was heavily biased. (It does happen and you could be talking about SD of +10) Now that wouldn't take long to rack up a few dollars.

Maybe the suit doesn't want to be putting fancy ideas into players heads about how you might actually find an edge. The 'algorhythm' story was a nice touch!

just saying......

Quote from: Bally6354 on December 14, 2012, 12:01:18 AM


  Did you consider the shift manager was telling you a load of porkies

I heard the story from probably 6 other people
before I found the shift manager. But you're right,
it's a conspiracy, that's why most of the other local
casinos got rid of the IGT airball's. They're just
trying to fool everybody.

I have played upon alfastreet airball for more than 2000 hours, so far. I do not feel it to be rigged. Actually, when we play RNG or these airballs and lose badly we think that it was rigged while when we lose the same on real dealer we blame our luck.

We've recently gotten the Interblock Organic "AirBall" roulette machines installed in the local Indian casinos.

They appear to be exactly like the ones I've played in Deadwood, SD although newer, of course.

So far I've just dabbled on it as I don't play roulette as the serious casino play so I was only running a basic opposites play on the EC of the moment.  Picked up a few dollars while testing but the machines seem to run just fine.

I would tend to think the casino management has no real reason to "program" the wheel to cheat as legitimate roulette wheels have been beating the players for a few hundred years now.

People who claim the "airball" machines cheat have usually lost on them, so those comments are generally tainted.

While I was there for a short time, I did see a guy parlay a nice $25 wager into $400 and walk away with it.  I don't believe you'll convince him that the machine is cheating. 

AD

Quote from: ADulay on December 14, 2012, 11:35:07 PM


I would tend to think the casino management has no real reason to "program" the wheel to cheat

Its not cheating anymore than a slot machine cheats.
Having it run on an algorhythm is not cheating, its
perfectly legal. Its just not the same a a random wheel.
And nowhere do they claim its the same as a random
wheel. Ask anybody in that casino and they won't know.
Call the manufacturer (like I have) and they won't talk
to you because you aren't their customer, the casino
is. They'll refer you to the casino, which knows nothing.

But it doesn't matter. If you don't have a winning system,
play the thing, you won't be able to tell the difference.
It will gladly take your money just as fast as a real wheel
does.

Quote from: spike on December 14, 2012, 11:46:54 PM
Its not cheating anymore than a slot machine cheats.

Uh, apples and oranges.  Slot machines are strictly electronic displays that "do something" to amuse the player.  AirBall is a real wheel, real rotation, hard physical components and electronics to replace the croupier and dispense with the tedius (and unsanitary) methods of payments.

Quote from: spike on December 14, 2012, 11:46:54 PM
Having it run on an algorhythm is not cheating, its
perfectly legal. Its just not the same a a random wheel.

It's not running on an algorithm.  It's most probably running at randomly selected wheel speeds and ball speeds.  You wouldn't want it to run the same wheel and ball speed with each spin, would you?

Quote from: spike on December 14, 2012, 11:46:54 PM
Call the manufacturer (like I have) and they won't talk
to you because you aren't their customer, the casino
is. They'll refer you to the casino, which knows nothing.

Yep, call the manufacturer and ask them for the details of their copyrighted (and secure) product.  How about calling Raytheon and asking them about how their counter-mortar radar works in a secured environment.   Duh.

Quote from: spike on December 14, 2012, 11:46:54 PM
But it doesn't matter. If you don't have a winning system,
play the thing, you won't be able to tell the difference.
It will gladly take your money just as fast as a real wheel
does.

If it takes my money "just as fast" as a real wheel, then I'd say it's a real wheel!

Look, I'm not going to argue with you on this.  You're set in your ways so I'll let you rant on about how rigged everything is in the casino.   Me?   I'll just take the money and continue to be cheated every day.  The losers on the baccrarat forums have basically the same mantra of "being cheated" by somebody, especially when they lose.   

This is not rocket science.  Play the game, take your money and deal with the losses when they show up.

If you don't like AirBall, don't play it.
If you don't like RNG, don't play it. (I don't)
If you don't like orange felt tables, don't play on them.

See?  It's very simple.

AD

I was on IGT Roulette Evolution wheel yesterday...virtually no play...couple people playing $5 a spin...gal comes up starts playing the greens $40 a spin (they are cold at the time...maybe a single 0 hit in the last 100 spins)...4 maybe 5 spins in she wins. 
Don't know if that means anything at all in this whole conversation...but they always seemed fair to me.
The ticket like the slot machine sort of had me thinking at first too but the whole point is to do away with payroll and without automating the money process somebody would have to cash you in and out.  I'm sure there's alot more to all of this...just a quickie observation.

Quote from: ADulay on December 15, 2012, 02:34:33 AM

It's not running on an algorithm.

Uh, sure it is. An algorithm is a program, the same thing that
runs a slot machine. that's why airball pays off jackpots just
like a slot, with an IRS form and a hand pay. it's a slot machine
shaped like a roulette game. that's how the Chicago guys beat
it, they figured out the program and what section the ball was
going to land in next. They kept their win under $1200 and stayed
away from the IRS forms and hand pays. This came as a complete
surprise to the casino, they were assured it was a safe game. Its
not..

Spike,
         You talk a bit bitter but most of the times you speak of sense. Are you sure that airball roulette is always rigged?