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[Albalaha]

Dozens of forums. Thousands of members and posts. 100s of topics but are we getting somewhere near perfection or rather learning only fanciful ways to try our luck without any substance or logic?
                    Most of the old forums gather so many active (those who write every fanciful way to play which comes to their minds) and inactive (those who can only appreciate or criticize methods) members but the debate never goes in a structured manner. Nobody talks of hows and whys. Play this way, play that way. Result: win in 5 sessions with +50 units and 6 session goes in -80 something.
            Result: Those who are looking for any magical trick to earn from these places, disappear or get silent after some time.

           If we want to get something positive and constructive, joint and constructive efforts are required from various topic starters, testers and programmers. Otherwise every other forum will be same. Lots of writings, Nothing worth learning.

[esoito]

Lots of writings, Nothing worth learning.

There's always something worth learning -- even if it's learning what NOT to do.

[VLS]

If we want to get something positive and constructive, joint and constructive efforts are required from various topic starters, testers and programmers.

Agreed.

Ideally, the cycle being: ways to bet are posted, methods are tested, conclusions are made.

One barrier I see is the amount of effort required to make proper tests. Manual testing is time-consuming, automated testing requires programming efforts, which either cost money or time to somebody, and since it involves costs the resulting program isn't likely to be given away to the general public (that's not the way it should be, but that's the way it is in real life. The case of someone hiring a programmer for giving the resulting program away are RARE... very rare).

Having said that, a way to solve this scenario is to have one main programmer creating and maintaining a framework, with several programmers creating tiny extensions/modules, consisting of only the pertinent parts to be test: namely only the extact code of the bet selection and/or the progression.

This way the main burden is centralized so the other programmers don't have to re-invent the wheel for things like data input/output, charts, optical number recognition, clicker, and the like. Focusing instead on the nitty-gritty of the method at hand.

This is what I aim to achieve with this site here. A centralized lab for testing, and ultimately betting via bots.

Would it succeed? Who knows. It's a paid project, funded by the subscriptions of this very site. It's still unclear whether or not would it have acceptance among the programming-able folks, but it should once the learning curve is taken. It's the difference between working with bare metal versus having an operative system.



Posters elaborating on their ideas, programmers relieved and focused on only working-out the very minimum of the posted bets and the users enjoying the conclusions.

[VLS]

There's always something worth learning -- even if it's learning what NOT to do.

The most important part is learning without costing you a very HIGH-PRICED lesson at the actual gaming table.


Perhaps this is the most important part of testing. SAVING people money.

[TwoCatSam]

All

What I have always found and railed against and what is going on with JL's test is people are constantly changing the system as they test.  You simply cannot do this!  When you do, you are retrofitting the data to the system.  Good for that data, hell for the next set.

That is the main reason I split company with Mr. Chips.  I worked my buns off on his 4Selecta and was having good results when he changed the plan.  Someday I may go back and play it again with the old rules.

So, good on you Victor.  You have the idea.  While we mostly agree most of the time---I feel a person who pays for a program to be written owns the copyright to that program.  If he wants to give it away, that's his decision.  Then he can watch it be sold on E-bay or Craigslist.

Sam

Sam

[Albalaha]

Most of the so-called systems simply lack any logic. Testings are always done upon small pieces of data. It leads to wrong conclusions regarding playability of any system, in long run.

[esoito]

Most of the so-called systems simply lack any logic. Testings are always done upon small pieces of data. It leads to wrong conclusions regarding playability of any system, in long run.

Judging from your recent and several negative posts it sounds as though this forum is not going to suit you, no matter what people say or try.

The door is over there...

[Albalaha]

this forum is not going to suit you

I don't believe in predictions but logic and believe that predictions are neither possible nor feasible. Just telling play this or that is not a system. A system to me is a systematic and well defined approach to play in a particular manner backed by any logical or mathematical order. I can't help if you believe it otherwise.
             It is a debate and let it flow like that. If I am wrong, I will hear lots of noises against me here. There is nothing personal.

[esoito]

OK, Al.

You've explained and clarified your position very well.

[Albalaha]

I just wish that this newly born forum doesn't become just another forum but a place to refer even by professionals. If you see my personal board http://albalaha.lefora.com you will see that never allowed filth being gathered there. There are only a few "full systems" and debates but if you go through them, you will appreciate the contents.

[NoBody]

Dear all,

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." by Thomas A. Edison

Enjoy the process and don't be frustrated. 


Regards,

NoBody ^.^

[Albalaha]

Enjoy the process and don't be frustrated. 

          I can enjoy only if I see anything going in a direction.  I would love to be proved wrong. I hope Victor will come up with nice trackers etc.

[JohnLegend]

Dear all,

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." by Thomas A. Edison

Enjoy the process and don't be frustrated. 


Regards,

NoBody ^.^

EXACTLY, its easy for many to become jaded with this game. But keep this thought in your head. Just because you have never played or seen a winning method to beat this game in the longterm. It does not mean they do not exist. I believe a good method played Hit and Run is an absolute way of beating this game longterm.

I have been doing it for nearly 8 years. So I can think no other way. My presence on this forum is to try and show a few other open minded people that this game really is beatable longterm. It doesn't require a holy grail to be taken. A good method yes.

But most importantly a good head playing that method. Understanding that anytime you start playing. You set off on a track layed by random. The longer you stay on that track the greater the possibility that you will pull into a town called loserville.

When you play CONTINUOSLY, you are always moving towards a loss. When you play Hit and run to lose, you must land on TOP OF A LOSS. Which is harder to do. Over the course of time this gives you a definitive edge, that tranlates into greater profit margins for your patience and effort.

But to come to this realization takes a speical mind. Solid in discipline and firm in staying power. This may at best respresent 1% of all who play this game. This game was always beatable.

The fact is very few who play it possess the necessary mental tools to attain the longterm success most seek.

[Albalaha]

I believe a good method played Hit and Run is an absolute way of beating this game longterm.

There is nothing like hit and run. Today you get a lucky hit and you run away. Next day numbers will hit you and you will run away(after losing).
Unless and until there is a very clear system that wins more when you play more, you can not win in long term. If someone has made some quick winnings somehow he should not confuse himself that he will keep on winning the same way. House edge and extreme variance takes care of all these misconceptions at some point of time.

[esoito]

Hmmm...    Seems like we might need a separate thread to discuss the pros and cons of Hit'n'run [HAR]

Yes?  No?

It's going to raise its head again and again, of course, because players are either for or against. There seem to be few fence sitters over the issue.