QuoteMagical Thinking Simply stated, magical thinking refers to a mistaken belief that one thing has an influence on something else when, actually, the two things are not connected. Here's an example of magical thinking: you forget your umbrella one day and it rains, and you think that you caused the rain because you forgot your umbrella. Using selective attention, you may start to believe that it "always" rains when you forget your umbrella.

Magical thinking in gambling works in a similar way. If you win a large prize on a Tuesday, you may start to believe that Tuesday is the best day to gamble. In doing so, you're making a connection between events that are not actually related. There's no connection between times of day...

I feel that this is somewhat closer to fallacy.

QuoteMagical thinking –- Problem gamblers may believe that thinking or hoping in a certain way will bring about a win or that random outcomes can be predicted. They may also believe they are special in some way and that their specialness will be rewarded with a win.

Superstitions –- Problem gamblers may believe that lucky charms, certain articles of clothing, ways of sitting, etc., may cause a win or a loss. 

Quote from: albalaha on November 21, 2012, 05:01:46 PM
I feel that this is somewhat closer to fallacy.

I found the phrase "magical thinking" while studying gambling addiction books. It's  a common theme in having a retarded therapist tell an inexperienced gambler how the world of gambling works. To this point, there is not a single book on gambling issues like problem gambling, gambling addiction, etc... that deals with actually winning.

I thought a positive cure was the better approach. When will the doctors see that?

QuoteSelective Attention and Selective Recall: "I Only See What I Want to See" In our every day lives, we're constantly being selective about what we do or don't pay attention to. For example, we easily ignore the background music until we hear our favorite song. In gambling, it's no surprise that what attracts people's attention is winning. Winning can make such an impression that it can make people ignore or minimize their losses. Think of the gambler who tells his friends he won $100 on a slot machine, but doesn't mention that he lost more than that earlier in the day.

Here's how I explained it on another thread:

"H&R is a form of magical thinking. If you want to beat roulette you must be aware of the current conditions and attack them when they are in a more advantageous state. All hit and run does is make the randomness more random.

Now if that sounds useless to you that's because it is.

If, on the other hand, you believe that more randomness makes you win more, then perhaps you should ask yourself why it should.

I prefer seeking the truth. The truth will save you more money than learning the truth will."

Very good topic.

I have been a victim of magical belief myself.

This should be required reading for all beginners.

Thanks for bringing it to the fore.

Gizmo

I can understand why a therapist would come out and tell a pathological gambler that they can never gamble again if they want to live a life in recovery. They have to cater for the majority. What percentage of problem gamblers do you honestly think could turn things around and become successful gamblers ? (speaking of which, I have a book on this very subject where the author did try to turn a group of problem gamblers into successful players at the track... see what I did there)

I reckon the percentage is small because the actual gambling itself is only 5% of the problem for someone addicted. It is all the other sh*t that needs working on which can take years to fix which creates 95% of the problem. It's hard for people to break negative cycles in their life and problem gambling is just another one of them.

This will probably strike you as odd but there are no pathological gamblers. There are no addicted gamblers. The DSM - 4 describes the condition as "problem gambler." It's a very simple issue. Not only that but all of them can grow beyond the problem gambler stage. Now ask yourself this. How much money is there in a simple and cheap cure?

This is not some opinionated anger being projected by me. I've done the work on this. It's not some more easy cynicism either. The cure is very simple. In fact the community on this subject did some excellent research on this a few years ago. They have admitted the existence of "self cure" as a solution as it is described in the DSM - 4.

Quote from: Bally6354 on November 21, 2012, 05:52:45 PM
Gizmo

I can understand why a therapist would come out and tell a pathological gambler that they can never gamble again if they want to live a life in recovery. They have to cater for the majority. What percentage of problem gamblers do you honestly think could turn things around and become successful gamblers ? (speaking of which, I have a book on this very subject where the author did try to turn a group of problem gamblers into successful players at the track... see what I did there)

I reckon the percentage is small because the actual gambling itself is only 5% of the problem for someone addicted. It is all the other sh*t that needs working on which can take years to fix which creates 95% of the problem. It's hard for people to break negative cycles in their life and problem gambling is just another one of them.

I must admit I find it a very fascinating subject.

It must be very empowering for someone who had a gambling problem to turn their life around and still be able to gamble after treatment in a controlled manner rather than think that anything and everything related to gambling was taboo. This would kind of suggests that it is all a state of mind.

I know the UK government spent a fortune several years ago training up a lot of people to work as councilors using CBT techniques. I have not read any reports yet on how successful they think this has worked out.

Yikes -" . CBT is based on the Cognitive Model of Emotional Response. Cognitive-behavioral therapy is based on the idea that our thoughts cause our feelings and behaviors, not external things, like people, situations, and events. The benefit of this fact is that we can change the way we think to feel / act better even if the situation does not change."

The idea that the treatment for problem gambling is to be in "recovery" for the rest of your life is degrading to say the least. It's a rip off too. Keeping anyone in a half done stage is almost criminal. And its legal too. Just put your brain in a box and then send me money. Hell, who's the one addicted to gambling here? It's the shrinks with their very tired out cure. Gambling is not a chemical dependency. But these magical thinking fools try very hard to justify this as exactly that. 12 steps to total humiliation. Now that cure is free. All you have to do is strip naked and apologise for all the world's ills. All I can do is laugh. There's a sucker born every minute.

A lot of the so-called experts on the subject have chopped and changed their ideas around for years.

Here are some authors to look up if you are interested.

Nathaniel Branden.
David D. Burns.
Albert Ellis.
Daniel Gilbert.
Fritz Perls.
Barry Schwartz.
Martin Seligman.
William Styron.
Robert E. Thayer.

The most interesting book I read out of that lot was Fritz Perls 'Gestalt Therapy'.

Here is the cure. It's very simple. It takes a qualified person to use it on anyone else.

Finish the job.

The problem gambler is a person stuck in the understanding of what they are attempting to accomplish. I've seen it many times. Rather than working out this problem at home with practice tools, the problem gambler is doing research with money that they need elsewhere. They are stuck on learning what works and what does not work. In fact they can't see that they keep making the same mistake over and over. They come in, gamble for several hours, and then leave as soon as they lose their bankrolls. That includes times when they had excellent winning streaks. They always blow it.

Now understanding the (why) of it makes for interesting understanding. If the problem gambler starts winning then their life will change. So the therapists go after the better life part of this and completely forget about dealing with the real solution to the problem. In fact they brain wash them with stuff about how they can be better off without ever knowing if they could do it or not. What a rip off. What a total jip.

Quote from: Bally6354 on November 21, 2012, 07:52:18 PM
A lot of the so-called experts on the subject have chopped and changed their ideas around for years.

The most interesting book I read out of that lot was Fritz Perls 'Gestalt Therapy'.

That's interesting. My brother is Phillip Brownell. He knows a few things about Gestalt Therapy. My sister is a licensed Substance Abuse & Addiction therapist as well as a Family & Marriage licensed therapist. I've discussed this topic with both of them. I've already read many of the books on gambling issues. I know they are wrong.

''Finish the job'' - Gizmo.

The problem is most people have not even started even after spending years at it.

Shane Warne was probably the best bowler the world has ever seen in international cricket. He was getting interviewed once and they asked him why guys who had played in loads of games like him were nowhere near as good as him.

He said that a lot of guys who had played 50-60 games were in fact still playing in their very first game of cricket.

Now I can relate that to gambling. There are guys out there who are likely coming up with the same stuff and making the same mistakes that they made on day 1.