Hi,
I posted this question in my site's forum and got all sorts of unrelated answers. It was overwhelming. I took it as evidence that our minds are so fixed on a very specific approach to roulette, that we can't think out of the box.

So I will post the same question here, to see what answers I will get from this forum's members.
Question:
What money management/progression would you use in order to keep your winnings/profits LOW even if your bet wins often.

If you need an example of a winning session take this: WWWWLLWWWLWWWLWWWWWLWWWLWWWWWLLWL

So, can you devise a reliable money management method that will guarantee that in a winning session your profit will be as low as possible?

What would you like to hear?

That there's a magic progression that can make it work and here it is...?

Or

The truth- that your trapped in the box because you believe that there's an ideal progression?

If you want to keep profits low, just flat bet one unit

Quote from: Xander on April 19, 2015, 07:20:47 PM
What would you like to hear?
That there's a magic progression that can make it work and here it is...?

Or

The truth- that your trapped in the box because you believe that there's an ideal progression?
If you want to keep profits low, just flat bet one unit

I would like to hear an interesting thought process.
If flat betting is the best way to keep your profits low, I wonder about those who think flat betting is the best way to bet.
Anyway I believe there is "better" way to lose your profits than flat betting, for example parlay... I do not have a predetermined answer. This i not a test. Just a question that I hoped could produce some interesting discussion.

I was actually thinking about a post that was on last week about a lifetime bank of 100 units or something along those lines.

My thoughts on that kind of tie in to your premise here.

Money Management and Progressions

I play with progressions and sometimes my real issue is I win too early and win too often.

Here's why I say that.

I don't start with the unit size most would play with in regards to my total bank.

I play a fibo or modify a fibo type progression with most of my plays...it's never a strict fibo...fibo is the basis for most of my progressions.

For me the key to money management is to have a bankroll vs unit size utilized that doesn't have you at a major disadvantage against the game you are playing.  In the question I was pondering regarding 100 units lifetime it's a scenario set for disaster becasue no matter how good your method or methods may be...there is always a drawdown and there is always the run from hell.

The trick is to play small enough that you can use a light progression with a stop loss and then start attacking again maybe a step or two up the rung in a "recovery" type mode.  100 units doesn't give you any room for error.

I often win too little because if I win early on in the progressions there just isn't enough money on the table.  But...that being said...be happy to make a small win and go on about your business somewhere else.  It's a cyclical game and comes in waves.  If you are winning alot and play in a certain manner...the losses may be coming (normally when you are ready to amp up the bet because you are winning too little)   You have to accept the small gain...be thankful that you increased your bank and call it good.

Playing small and well within your bankroll is the key in my mind.  If you are stretched thin you are living on borrowed time. 

As a point of reference (I play several methods simultaneously so it magnifies the multiplier)  $1 unit per every $10,000-$15,000 of bank.   That would let me play at a ratio of 1:3000 (unit:bank) across 3-5 methods

Obviously $100 units are out of the question...and I never play EC's and seldom play 2:1's...mostly inside with 1-3 numbers targeted...sometimes 4-5 on a wheel sector or strip of felt

I suspect that the reason you don't get the sort of response you are hoping for is because the question actually makes no sense. Here's why.

You say "winnings/profits" and provide an example W/L string - this implies that your bet selection creates a profitable W/L series, or, more wins than losses. This would be the holy grail which we all know does not exist. Therefore most people's immediate reaction would be "oh, here's another kook" and not take it seriously. (No offence - just saying ..).

Secondly, the lowest will simply be, as Xander has stated, simply a flat bet because - in order to do worse than that (which is what you are asking for discussion on) you would have to somehow manage to have a progression where your average winning bet is lower than your average losing bet, in which case you will always, without fail, progress towards and eventually reach a loss.  And since that would not be a winning series it does not fail within the definition you refer to in your original question of "winnings/profits".

So your question is inherently logically contradictory and therefore you are unlikely to get meaningful answers.

Not sure if this is the type of answer you were looking for, but I think there is merit in progressing in closed cycle blocks.

The blocks need to be customised to the selection criteria, and that selection criteria needs to be at least good enough to hover around the break even point.  The EC's are very good for that.

A progression up and down the blocks in some d'alembert fashion is recommended, with a return to block 1 each time you go 1 unit in profit for any session.

For example you could have 5 blocks of 5 progressive bets:

1) 1.2.3.4.5
2) 2.4.6.8.10
3) 4.8.12.16.20
4) 8.16.24.32.40
5) 16.32.48.64.80

D'alembert up and down the individual blocks as well as up and down between the blocks, always reverting to block 1 bet 1 whenever you go plus 1.


This is a very simplistic example of the type of progression that can get you the minimum profit on each round or session.
 

Quote from: greenguy on April 20, 2015, 01:18:02 AM
For example you could have 5 blocks of 5 progressive bets:

1) 1.2.3.4.5
2) 2.4.6.8.10
3) 4.8.12.16.20
4) 8.16.24.32.40
5) 16.32.48.64.80

D'alembert up and down the individual blocks as well as up and down between the blocks, always reverting to block 1 bet 1 whenever you go plus 1.

Hi,
I want to MINIMIZE profits in winning session. Is that what you re trying to achieve with this progression?
Since we have more wins than losses, most of the time the progression will look as flat betting.
It seems the general consensus is that flat betting is the best way to minimize your winnings in a wining session.
I find it strange.
I think some sort of parlay is the bestay to minimize your winnings as one single loss can wipe out all your profits.
 

The best way to lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge is to bet on the coldest numbers possible on a live game.

If you want to keep wins to a minimum then bet several numbers, rather than just a few.

Without more detail it would be hard to say what kind of progression would result in minimum profits. If, for example, your longest losing run was 3, then a two-step martingale might do it. but I suspect that sqzbox is right and that it would be impossible to "achieve" anything less than if you were flat-betting, given that wins outnumber losses. So sorry, but you could always give the extra profits away to charity. 

Quote from: Xander on April 20, 2015, 06:38:29 AM
The best way to lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge is to bet on the coldest numbers possible on a live game.
If you want to keep wins to a minimum then bet several numbers, rather than just a few.

The winning rate is a given and it is higher than the losing rate. These are the conditions of the problem.
Now the question is how to minimize profits in a winning session.

I understand that we are used searching for the HG when when someone asks something out of the ordinary we find it difficult to absorb the new question.

just the answer is very easy...same question can be put as how to maximizzze our winings in losing session ..both qwestions have the same answear you have to know exactly when you will hit "W"or "L" and that's i guess is having cristal ball..

Quote from: maestro on April 20, 2015, 08:28:38 AM
just the answer is very easy...same question can be put as how to maximizzze our winings in losing session ..both qwestions have the same answear you have to know exactly when you will hit "W"or "L" and that's i guess is having cristal ball..

No, they are totally different questions.
Maximize your winnings in a losing session could be impossible.
But minimizing your winnings in a winning session could be possible.

Now let me put in in a different way:
There are you and another guy on a roulette table. That day the Black has a higher hit rate that Red, something like a 60% hit rate, in every 100 spins, 60 are Black.
Now there comes a guy with a gun in his hand and tells you that you all should keep betting on Black and after 100 spins he will kill the guy the most chips.
What method would you use?

Quote from: Kav on April 20, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
No, they are totally different questions.
Maximize your winnings in a losing session could be impossible.
But minimizing your winnings in a winning session could be possible.

Now let me put in in a different way:
There are you and another guy on a roulette table. That day the Black has a higher hit rate that Red, something like a 60% hit rate, in every 100 spins, 60 are Black.
Now there comes a guy with a gun in his hand and tells you that you all should keep betting on Black and after 100 spins he will kill the guy the most chips.
What method would you use?

Take the money and run!

after four WWWW of flat bet on black start doing marty on blacks till losss

If the game is random, and not biased, then you can NOT win or lose at a rate that will exceed the house edge in the long run. FACT.

Tracking the Ws and Ls is meaningless and will keep you trapped in the box that is the "gambler's fallacy".