CEH said that he found 4 CWB. I try to focus on the one shikamaru spoke and Razor found. Other bets probably include 2 columns. One CWB at the time gentleman, LOL!

Razor said to look for movements of the dozens first without focusing on EC triggers yet (DISCLAIMER: that is how i understood it). What CEH said:

" [size=78%]Roulette produces random results:[/size]
   1.  Roulette  series results
   2.  Roulette  mixed results
   3.  Roulette  cross combination results

I could go on and on, but understanding those three will lead you to finding a consistent winning bet. There are only a few that will give you a profit return to secure your wealth for life. Some are of course better than others in percentage returns. Professional players or city money dealers will know that even a small but consistent margin can make a fortune if exploited regular.

Lets continue with proven facts like this. Lets deal with each of those "killer" traps.
[/size][size=78%]SERIES RESULTS:[/size]

Because roulette is random it means that anything can happen and at anytime within the parameters of the game. Because it is random it throws up colours, numbers, dozens, even bets, and blocks in short and longer series. This results in a "pattern" that you may recognize . A good lesson to look at these patterns, because it will teach your brain how to think about roulette.

However you will not find a consistent winning bet within any of the series simply because you will never know when the change comes. This kind of bet is often touted by the roulette system sharks. You will lose...twice.

MIXED RESULTS:
These are the kind that jump all over the table or wheel. Look closely and of course you can see patterns of a kind too. Ie. abccbaabcabcdca ...etc. Same rules as above apply.

CROSS COMBINATION RESULTS:[/size][size=78%]This is probably the area where there is the most confusion, and perfect for the sharks to sell you a system. There is no such thing as "Cross combination results" They are simply past results that anyone can say...look at how many reds followed high etc.etc. It is wide open to impress you with what's looks clever.[/size][/size][size=78%]  [/size][/size][size=78%]I have to cover this stuff because so many "experts" and "sellers" all over the Internet use this.[/size]

[/size][size=78%]They are all traps you use, and lose. You have to set your own trap that consistently traps more winners than losers. Only correct knowledge can help you find one. Proceed slowly. "[/size]

1.  Roulette  series results[/size]   2.  Roulette  mixed results   3.  Roulette  cross combination results


he actually said to understand them...but they were useless...it was to give you an idea how to think about roulette...re read the  page it was on   

As for dozen/column movements i was looking into last 2 dozens (LD) ----> 123 - play 2 and 3 and jump dozens (JD) ----> 123 - play 1 and 2.


Now i expected to see a dozen sleeping more often. Dozen can sleep 20+ spins but it looks like in most cases dozens hits within 3-5 spins. Could be my imagination...

[Edit:  Mike -- Go and read through XXVV's section and then you'll better understand why Sputnik was pulled up for his sweeping statement about flat betting (and the comment was nothing to do with grails, by the way).   Furthermore, the forum is NOT owned by SH.  As a newcomer you seem very eager to post criticisms (and assumptions) rather than carefully feel your way, which is what most newcomers do.  Moderator]

---
Dear Moderater ... don't make assumptions and lie about my stand point of view in public, keep does opinions for your self.
I was not making a sweeping statement about flat betting, no one has prove they can flat betting with method and results, if they did i can show why it does not work.
So do not speak about criticisms and assumptions when there is a lie claiming flat betting a negative expectation into positive expectation.

Mike don't waste you time reading XXVV's section ...
What is respect about, well i can not respect some one who claim they can flat betting.
Because they can not show how it is done, they just end up to claim they can out guess negative expectation, so boring, so why waste your time read what they reply when you know is nonsense ...

Quote from: Graildigger on October 19, 2013, 07:33:05 AM
As for dozen/column movements i was looking into last 2 dozens (LD) ----> 123 - play 2 and 3 and jump dozens (JD) ----> 123 - play 1 and 2.

Now I expected to see a dozen sleeping more often. Dozen can sleep 20+ spins but it looks like in most cases dozens hits within 3-5 spins. Could be my imagination...

Hi Graildigger,
Maybe you're right. I remember Gizmotron posted something similar a while back... Here it is:

Quote
Here is my Very Rare to Kill Progression.  It's was inspired by reverse engineering the crackpot Charles Scammer Hampshire's spoof of an idea he called the Zone.  His only problem was he actually had something a real player could make use of.  He didn't even know it.  So I thought about it for fifteen minutes and turned his lame idea upside down and inside out.  Guess what? It really works.  After thousands of spin tests it has held up as a winner.  It does this because the pattern or sequence it takes to kill it is so very rare that it tends to work.  Charles Scammer never noticed that feature even in his own spoof of a Holy Grail he has been harassing forums with.

It uses 4 steps.  It avoids the zeros.  It's completely rule based.  It has a few wait points that usually resolve in just a few spins.
The point is to bet on the two dozens or columns that did not hit last.  It's almost that simple.  The other point is to wait for the next single to occur in the dozens after the last repeat. 

So if d1 (dozen 1, 1 to 12) hits you bet on d2 and d3 for the next spin.

If d1 hits again then you lose.  You now wait for d1 to stop hitting.  As soon as d2 or d3 hits you have a single in series.  So then you start step two of the four step progression.  I takes a perfect set of repeats and singles to kill this progression.
Here are a few spins tracking the dozens and the columns at the same time.

| 1 2 3 | L M H |
|   X   |   X   |   -- 23 --  1
|   X   |     X |   -- 24 --  2
|     X |     X |   -- 33 --  3
|   X   |   X   |   -- 23 --  4
| X     | X     |   --  1 --  5
| X     |   X   |   -- 11 --  6
|     X | X     |   -- 25 --  7
| X     |     X |   --  9 --  8
|     X |     X |   -- 36 --  9
|     X |   X   |   -- 35 -- 10
|     X | X     |   -- 28 -- 11

Here is a stretch that kills it.  It happens in the dozens beginning at spin 122.

| 1 2 3 | L M H |
| X     |     X |   --  6 -- 120
|     X | X     |   -- 28 -- 121
|     X |   X   |   -- 29 -- 122
|     X | X     |   -- 34 -- 123
|     X |   X   |   -- 35 -- 124
| X     |     X |   -- 12 -- 125
| X     |     X |   --  9 -- 126
| X     |   X   |   -- 11 -- 127
| X     |   X   |   --  2 -- 128
|   X   | X     |   -- 19 -- 129
|   X   |   X   |   -- 17 -- 130
|   X   | X     |   -- 19 -- 131
|     X |   X   |   -- 32 -- 132
|     X |     X |   -- 33 -- 133
|---------------|   --  0 -- 134
| X     |     X |   --  6 -- 135

The progression is 1,1 - 3,3 - 9,9 - 27,27.  You place a bet on each of the dozens that did not hit last.
The cost is 80 units if you lose.  You win everything back plus 1 unit on any win inside the four steps.

---MAYBE PROG CAN BE CHANGED or just flatbet? - ATLANTIS---

The thing that makes it work is that you never place bets on any repeats after the first repeat is discovered.  So runs of repeats don't take out your progressions.  Only the exact sequence of repeats after singles, four directly in a row has the power to break this progression.

For the sake of clarity here are step by step instructions.

d1 hits on spin 1.  Bet 1 on d2 and 1 on d3 for spin 2.
d1 hits on spin 2.  Don't bet on spin 3.
d1 hits on spin 3  Don't bet on spin 4.
d3 hits on spin 4  Bet 3 on d2 and 3 on d1 for spin 5.
d1 hits on spin 5  Bet 1 on d2 and 1 on d3 for spin 6.
d2 hits on spin 6  Bet 1 on d1 and 1 on d3 for spin 7. 
d3 hits on spin 7  Bet 1 on d1 and 1 on d2 for spin 8.

I generally lose one time in 300 spins betting both dozens and columns independently for each spin.  That's typical too.  Once in a while you get two losses.  And once in a while you get no losses.  With both progressions going on at the same time you tend to win about 20 units for every 30 spins.

If this is a holy grail system then three or more losses must take place most of the time for it not to be, in 300 spins that is.  On a five dollar minimum table this should cost $400 for each loss.  So a $1200 bankroll would be considered minimal to try it.

There are some refinements not mentioned regarding the zeros.  I just did not want to cloud the explanation at this time.  I'd hate to be blamed for changing this after the fact.  That's what Charles Scammer does.  He's a liar.  Some how he gets his jollies for leading people on.  I just don't want to be in his low class.  So there it is, now go change the world forever.  Just remember I thought this up.  To all those that think it won't change things just watch this gold rush.


The zero:

1.) I wait two spins after each zero, to see if a new single appears.

2.)Caution:  When zeros start hitting within ten spins of each other or when they repeat.

3.) I run 300 spin tests. But I would end with 25 to 30 units. as a good goal. A loss is 80 units. Maybe winning 80 is a good idea.

A.

Quote from: Francis on October 19, 2013, 02:06:41 AM

Don't count on statistics (probability & expected value) to beat this game. This is where everybody fails.

What else is there?

intuition? precognition? psychokinesis?

The biggest mistake is NOT to count on probability and expected value. It tells you all you need to know (which is, that you can't beat the game). It's not a question of a 'challenge', because given that the wheel is fair and balanced (and you can be sure that casinos make every effort to make sure that this is the case), then it's a LOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY to create any system based on patterns and progressions which will reverse the house edge.

To repeat, it's a LOGICAL impossibility, just like it's absurd and illogical to try to find a way to make 2 + 2 = 5. [smiley]cps/noway.gif[/smiley]

It's actually pretty hilarious, if you think about what all you 'grail hunters' are trying to do here, and it's because you don't understand simple logic and basic math.

This is NOT the case for sports betting, poker, or trading because the odds and expectation cannot be calculated mathematically, so you have a chance of putting the odds in your favor, even if it's only using arbitrage.

Just 'believe' in the math; it could save you years of wasted time and effort.

Hi Graildigger,




I was thinking almost the same but i would play the last hit dozen plus the dozen that did not show as the only dozen not to show.


Permanenzen vom TB AS1 vom 19.10.2013


24
1 play dozen 1 and dozen 3.
2. Win.


In case that an dozen hits 2 times in an row like, 24 19, play the dozens that did not show. Or sometimes play dozen 2 and pick an dozen which came inn the last time and is not showing now.


One has to see how the game goes also.

Quoteintuition? precognition? psychokinesis?

Has been discussed before....






Carlitos   

Quote
It's actually pretty hilarious, if you think about, what all you 'grail hunters' are trying to do here, and it's because you don't understand simple logic and basic math.

This is NOT the case for sports betting, poker, or trading because the odds and expectation cannot be calculated mathematically, so you have a chance of putting the odds in your favor, even if it's only using arbitrage.

Certainly. I always win more on the horses than I ever do on roulette. With the horses you've got a chance; it's not so "random". You get a run for your money too.

I make money on the horses - always in profit at end of week. I will win or break even. If I lose it will be won back... I play most days and know what I'm doing. Though I say it myself I'm pretty hard to beat.

As regards roulette - would sure be great to have a surefire and foolproof winner. But I don't rely on it or need it. It's fun trying to fathom ways to beat it.

A.

Carlitos, I was being facetious about precognition etc.


And where did that avatar come from? I didn't upload it. It's kind of appropriate though, because you have to fight to get the truth heard. I'm well aware that most people here will think me arrogant. Mine is just one opinion among many, right?


WRONG.


In the hundreds of years since these games have been invented, there has not been one shred of evidence that any gambling system actually works. It's because they literally CAN'T work. Anyone who tries to persuade you otherwise is long on rhetoric and short on logic, and is probably trying to pick your pocket.

Quote from: Atlantis on October 19, 2013, 11:10:02 AM

As regards roulette - would sure be great to have a surefire and foolproof winner. But I don't rely on it or need it. It's fun trying to fathom ways to beat it.

A.

Atlantis, at last, a voice of sanity!


I agree, it can be fun playing around with systems, but I'm sure that there are many here who sincerely believe that roulette and other NE games can be 'cracked', given enough time, effort, and ingenuity. Sadly, it's not the case.


I recommend learning how to write computer programs, then you'll quickly see that no system can win, and, you'll have learned a useful new skill. 

Totally agree with Razor, to find the bet you have to be very analytical as well as always thinking out of the box.....beat the game not the odds....stop thinking of the odds...much clues have been given by Razor if you don't have the bet you are just not thinking in the right direction.  Go back and read more carefully.

Good luck

Quote from: Mike on October 19, 2013, 11:19:23 AM
I agree, it can be fun playing around with systems, but I'm sure that there are many here who sincerely believe that roulette and other NE games can be 'cracked', given enough time, effort, and ingenuity. Sadly, it's not the case.

Oh it is, sir! [smiley]aes/martini.png[/smiley]  Excatly due to what you have said!

Regards

Drazen

Was this the thread I was supposed to stay off of?  Can't remember...  Can't even remember who scolded me.....  Oh, well.....

Mike

Thanks for enlightening us.

Atlantis

Many thanks for posting that thing from Giz.  When he first posted it, I couldn't make sense of it!  Last night I had an attack of vertigo and spent fourteen hours in bed.  This morning that mess makes perfect sense!!  Can you beat that??!!

Sam

.... i think you saw the light, Sam 










Carlitos 

I ran into these stats from Esoito on other forum:


http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3269.msg29704#msg29704


Also what about dozens vs doublestreets (lines)? Showing of 3 dozens vs showing all 6 natural lines... any difference? I noticed some members ask for all lines or all doz/col to show before testing their bets. Educational purpose?