There appears to be some interest on this topic at the moment on different forums.

It is something that I spent a lot of time studying.

So I will share some ideas and thoughts on the subject.

My personal opinion is that it makes no difference seperating spins between CW and CCW.

You can just as easily use one or the other full stop.

Here is one thing that always stood out for me...

I will write out 37 numbers and the CW distances for all 37 numbers.

(I just got these numbers from r-xtreme)

14
24 32
35 14
12 36
12 00
14 29
08 28
03 19
14 27
24 32
16 01
21 21
27 06
12 22
11 18
16 07
25 23
21 35
33 17
23 32
01 06
22 05
25 16
00 30
34 09
28 23
18 34
24 28
13 29
18 17
15 10
00 35
25 07
16 14
11 30
36 36
09 14
35 07

So the numbers on the left are the actual numbers that appeared and the numbers on the right are the CW distances.

Now look at the following two pictures where I have marked in the numbers that appeared with a 1.

The first pic is the CW distances and the second pic is the wheel layout.

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]

There are a few things to notice here.

Both sets more or less always confirm to the 'rule of the third'.

The other thing is how you get clumps appearing.

The two examples I circled are both showing more than double the expected hits.

You will see this most of the time and it does not matter how you arrange the numbers.

More to come....

cheers.

Here is another pic of a 37 spin cycle using the wheel layout.

[attachimg=1]

One way to attack this could be to wait for two joining numbers to have a total of 4 (with 2 hits on each number) This is double the expected rate. You would then bet looking for another hit on one of those two numbers for the remainder of the 37 spin cycle.

You could use both the wheel layout and CW distances to look for betting opportunities. Most numbers would not even qualify because of lack of hits and you would not be chasing numbers for ever by using the 37 spin cycle.

Quote from: Bally6354 on February 12, 2013, 12:13:08 AM


My personal opinion is that it makes no difference seperating spins between CW and CCW.

I think on the other board the discussion regarding CW vs CCW was in situations such as some airball machines that spin one direction twice and then reverese for two spins or alternate direction every spin.  Most of the live dealer wheels I play they just keep 'em spinning in all one direction all the time. 
I don't know if there is a discernable difference on most, some, or any wheels...but if you're tracking and testing...why not include all variables and be as thorough as possible?  If something is there that can be useful you have isolated it, analyzed it and can choose to use or not use it...or you can see that it makes no difference whatsoever and remove it from consideration and move on.
Just my thoughts on that aspect of the discussion.

Let's convert the first 18 numbers from above and turn the idea into splits.

14
24=12 32=17
35=17 14=08
12=06 36=18
12=06 00=00
14=08 29=14
08=05 28=13
03=03 19=10
14=08 27=15
24=12 32=17
16=07 01=01
21=12 21=12
27=15 06=03
12=06 22=10
11=05 18=09
16=07 07=04
25=13 23=11
21=12 35=17
33=18 17=08

First pic is of the wheel layout splits.

Second pic is of the CW distance splits.

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]

This is working on an 18 spin cycle bearing in mind it's splits.

Now let's convert the first 12 numbers and turn the idea into streets.

14
24=08 32=11
35=12 14=05
12=04 36=12
12=04 00=00
14=05 29=10
08=03 28=10
03=01 19=07
14=05 27=09
24=08 32=11
16=06 01=01
21=07 21=07
27=09 06=02

First pic is of the wheel layout streets.

Second pic is of the CW distance streets.

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]


This is working on a 12 spin cycle bearing in mind it's streets.

So you can see that you nearly always get some kind of clump effect going on whichever way you dice and slice it.

cheers

Quote from: RouletteKEY on February 12, 2013, 01:54:22 AM

I think on the other board the discussion regarding CW vs CCW was in situations such as some airball machines that spin one direction twice and then reverese for two spins or alternate direction every spin.  Most of the live dealer wheels I play they just keep 'em spinning in all one direction all the time. 
I don't know if there is a discernable difference on most, some, or any wheels...but if you're tracking and testing...why not include all variables and be as thorough as possible?  If something is there that can be useful you have isolated it, analyzed it and can choose to use or not use it...or you can see that it makes no difference whatsoever and remove it from consideration and move on.
Just my thoughts on that aspect of the discussion.

Definately RouletteKEY!

Players should ALWAYS do their own research and not just take someone's word on something. 

Is like me saying that we should use the dealers release and nothing more.
Then spin length would be random, rotor would be random, deflector hits would be random.

If you are going to implement physics into the game, then rap your mind around it first.

Quote from: Sputnik on February 12, 2013, 07:13:35 AM

Is like me saying that we should use the dealers release and nothing more.
Then spin length would be random, rotor would be random, deflector hits would be random.

If you are going to implement physics into the game, then rap your mind around it first.

Well there is nothing stopping anyone going the whole 9 yards if that's what they want to do! I find the bias wheel approach very interesting if we are talking about the physical aspect of the game.

OK, back to the voodoo side.....

I put the spins from above into three cycles of 12 spins using the streets.

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]

Now you could put all three together to look for bets. (singles, splits and streets)

Maybe an idea would be to reset the whole thing after each win. Alternatively you could go up a unit on a loss.

It's snowing today and I am going nowhere, so I will have a play around with this and see what can be done with it. 

OK guys, I put a chart up a few minutes ago and I made a mistake.

Here it is again corrected!

The numbers that came out were as follows....

33
--
24
34
1
36
32
14
35
4
33


[attachimg=1]

Now you may be wondering where I am coming up with all the markings.

So allow me to explain....

Here are the numbers again from the above example.

33
--
24
34
1
36
32
14
35
4
33


So the 33 went to the 24.

I am using CW pocket distances. So 33 to 24 = 35 pockets travelled.

33
--
24 35

So how do I work out the splits?

Well the split of 24 =12 and the split of 35 = 17.

33
--
24 35 (12 17)

How do I work out the streets?

The street of 24 = 8 and the street of 35 = 12.

33
--
24 35 (12 17) (8 12)

So here are the full markings....

33
--
24 35 (12 17) {8 12)
34 26 (16 14) (12 9)
1 14 (1 8} (1 5)
36 27 (18 15) (12 9)
32 25 (17 13) (11 9)
14 24 {8 12) (5 8}
35 9 (17 6) (12 3)
4 7 (1 4) (2 3)
33 18 (18 9) (11 6)

So I import the singles, splits and streets into the chart as I go along.

I would only use a 12 spin cycle for the streets, an 18 spin cycle for the splits and a 37 spin cycle for the single numbers.

One real bias player with team once explore a wierd signature.
He measuring the distance between outcome to outcome and hit 7 STD with 14 number spread.
That is not random, that is a true bias wheel signature.

The hard part is to figure out the cause and effect behind that kind of bias.
Physical reason.

Bally if you play with real dealer with real wheel, then i can show you how to rape a wheel into so many small parts that you will gain an edge over the bank.
But it takes days of tracking data and simulate them with specific software so you can pin point out the weak spot for that particular wheel.

I show it to others, they did jack stuff and continue with roulette systems with out any kind of advantage.
This is why - they don't have time, they don't have the money and they are not fanatics.
Yes that is true, you have to be fanatic taking data for several days with out playing to spot where the cause and effect manifest before you can play for real.

The next pic shows how you would start a new cycle for the streets after the first 12 spins and also start a new cycle for the splits after the first 18 spins.

Playing a 37 spin cycle would give you three cycles for the streets and two cycles for the splits.

The numbers that came out in the pic below were as follows...

33
--
13
9
30
32
31
19
7
16
19
34
5
14
------ This ends the first cycle for streets.
4
23
10
15
28
12
------ This ends the first cycle for splits.
11
13

Quote from: Sputnik on February 12, 2013, 12:47:53 PM

I show it to others, they did jack stuff and continue with roulette systems with out any kind of advantage.
This is why - they don't have time, they don't have the money and they are not fanatics.
Yes that is true, you have to be fanatic taking data for several days with out playing to spot where the cause and effect manifest before you can play for real.

Hello

Can you count me in this too please? Oh I would so like to learn more about BIAS. That is at the moment weakest link in my knowledge but as I know the strongest you can rely on when trying to gather advantage over casino.

I learned a lot from you and I would like to learn this too. Last time when I asked you about BIAS you said you don't want to speak about it... I sincerely hoped this has changed now. At least will  for my case anyway

You know that I have sent you over 20 000 manualy collected spins for each dealer by name from DB separated to CW and CCW. Over 90% of those I collected by myself so it isn't hard to calculate how much time I have spent on that.

So I just laughed when I saw you said you need several days.. lol I was doing it for several months.. This  is baby play for my patience discipline and will...

Speaking of fanatics you can count me in there somewhere I think 

Cheers

Drazen

This can be the fanatics thread! 

I second Drazen's comments. It would be nice to learn more about bias play if you have the time Sputnik.

cheers