Einstein never said it.


"No One Can Win at Roulette Unless He Steals Money from the Table While the Croupier Isn't Looking."



https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/09/09/einstein-roulette/


Is that true? The mathBoyz, over the past decades, all insist that you must have an edge in order to win at Roulette. They require a mathematical advantage, where it is clear that the game has a negative expectation from one spin to infinity.


But is it true? Can the "statistical absolutists" prove that you must have an advantage in order to win? Where is the equation that proves it? Math equations can't predict when a win streak will occur, how long it will last, or when it will end. They can't tell a player when to stop. They don't advise when to bet big or when to bet small. They don't do much of anything for that matter. In fact I don't think that they exist. Where is the proof from the crowd that always demands proof?


This is where silence will probably be the answer. The mathBoyz always go silent when actually confronted with their own logic. So let's see if anyone of them can make a coherent argument without casting dispersion or disparaging remarks on the messenger. Let's see if they can keep it out of the gutter or above the level of crotch jokes.


Prove it.

Keep t clean and respectful.  Joking is permitted but do it from the stand point of a late night TV monologue of sorts, as Gizmo said--'hold the crotch level jokes and the insults', etc. 

In other words, don't trash the board or any of its members (a joke between member-friends or Q&A type of back and forth is another story) you guys know what that all means.

Go for it. 

Quote from: alrelax on June 01, 2018, 01:22:32 PM
Keep t clean and respectful.  Joking is permitted but do it from the stand point of a late night TV monologue of sorts, as Gizmo said--'hold the crotch level jokes and the insults', etc. 

In other words, don't trash the board or any of its members (a joke between member-friends or Q&A type of back and forth is another story) you guys know what that all means.

Go for it.

I thought you left forum for good, how come still here?

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 01:42:16 PM

I thought you left forum for good, how come still here?

Why do you twist the words around?  What is your problem?

I am involved with the Admin as well as the ownership.

By the way, this is not democracy here, it is a forum with ownership and rules and regulations. 

If you do not like that, sorry, leave.  If you do, stay and enjoy.  Lots of good stuff to come.

I made a statement about writing regarding B&M results and baccarat, etc.

There seems to be no real interest and interaction except for drama like you are bringing about, chastising and humiliation or belittling regarding beliefs. I specifically said: "After numerous sessions the past few months and actual data and results from H-Money, etc., my close friend and someone that lost close to $100,000.00 attempting to make money at Bac, being lambasted and chastised for my postings (all with no concern or care whatsoever from H-Money as he watched me post) as well as my own plays with the pictures of the results the best I could take at the casinos as well as the profit of the plays with detailed descriptions of my MMS, emotional-psych-frame of mind and all the other necessities I found positive that has allowed me to transform my game to a very profitable game the clearest and highest majority of the times, coupled with my buy-in and bank roll beliefs, I will refrain from posting pretty much.  Since there is none or hardly any support, interest and interaction with my casino results from you guys, I will save you the hassle of your 'forced readership' and 'negative continued commenting' as to what I found that has been so good for my game and actual real results!

I see no clear interest or belief and all I see is the derogatory, the negative and the resentment from members such as Xander, Mike, Blue Angel, etc., of course Green Guy can't say anything as he would lead the pack but he is muted, etc.  I really wanted to throw SoxFan into that group also, just have never really got a handle on his 'real thoughts or plays' as he offers next to nothing in the way of 'real play' except use huge bank rolls and make money everyday type of statements, etc."

Seriously, what is your problem?  You are negative, you belittle, you chastise and humiliate those that do not agree with you and you bring negativity to other sides and real gamblers and players that come on the board to learn, read, research and explore.  In other words, I have had complaints about you and Xander and Mike and another one or two, I brushed them off.  You actually do stop people from posting and it is not right.  You would not last a day or two on most other boards, IMO.  I will not put up with your continued negativity, attempt to control and the aura you present. 

I have done very well gambling at Baccarat and attempted to disclose, discuss and interact with people here.  Worked for the most part, and a few like yourself, repeatedly and continuously throw that unintelligent-butt monkey wrench in the arena every single chance you get.  If you don't agree with me, skip anything and everything I write or block me, my God! 

I have proof as to what I've done gambling and I have found many ways to improve my game of baccarat that allows myself to win numerous times far in excess of my buy-in's, consistently and repetitively by large and far.  Sorry you do not agree.  I will tell you one last time as I have by PM, etc.  Stop your negativity and chastising of other members, every single one, period end of story.  One last final warning, past the previous one. 

You and Xander need to stop twisting and assuming things.  If you don't have real good grasp of the English language take a course at your local secondary school.  Xander claims my ego is hurt and I can't take opposing views, which is totally not why I am cutting down on writing, it is lack of interaction and lack of comments.  Fine, no one wants reality, they want holy-grails and systems that are based on math and stats that will smack the casino with guaranteed winnings on a pre-scheduled thought out protocol that does not and will never exist, I won't comment further---but I wrote about real life USA bac experiences for 35 years or so and countless things that helped me define the game and how to profit and how to handle winning and losing.  As far as my ego goes, I deal with the state police, the department of transportation officials and the US EPA and I have been shoved in a corner, yelled at and screamed at by supervisors and district managers and then complimented and praised by case agents and regional supervisors for the same jobs or similar matters.  Stuff like this no problem, everyone is self serving to a point in life, here is no different, except we have to get along and reside on the same board.  You and Xander and Mike do not make the rules or set the tone or have the right to chastise, belittle, control or humiliate anyone, period.  Never did and never will.  Back to the matter at hand.  I cut down on writing about baccarat, etc., because  I feel it is a waste of my time, self serving (LOL) but when there is no interaction, that convinces myself I am wasting my time writing about actual live baccarat in USA casinos, etc.  There is a lot to learn about casinos and winning and losing, past thinking of applying math or stats at the live table to win money. 

Here it is in plain English.  If you cannot be respectful, non offending, refrain from below the crotch joking and insults (unless it is in a sportsmanship like manner with a buddy/member friend of yours on here, etc.), etc., you will be moderated and eventually banned if you persist.  If you do not agree with someone, me or anyone else, state it respectful and state your case with your technical terms and beliefs and then stop.  Don't chase members around on this board.  Skip their posts or block them, everyone has a right to a neutral, clean and comfortable atmosphere here, everyone.  Again, if you do not agree or can not abide by that, leave.  If you do not like or can not accept what I say, take it up with my partner Vic.  Thank you, stay and enjoy, but be 100% respectful and stop the negativity.

I have played the game of baccarat since you were approx. 1 year old or so.  You know, I have numerous people in the haz-mat spill clean up business as well as the heavy wrecker and recovery industry that I didn't see eye-to-eye with or like the way they looked, their nationalities, their other personal ways, etc., but I sure learned a hell of a lot of great things from them in numerous ways.  Countless times, I was at an industry function, course, seminar,. workshop, trade show, etc., etc., and picked up one or two things from someone on a message board I despised at the times, and when I realized what just happened, I did that '3-Stoogies' slap in my face and wondered why I disliked or despised that guy in the first place.  He was the same as myself expect he didn't use the right deodorant or enough of it, or pull that 'gross and laughable' looking hair growing out of his nose and ears, or he didn't drink the same drink I did or he was not Italian or he was from LaLa Land in Southern California and I was from New York/New Jersey, etc., etc., and so on and so forth, et al.  The End.

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 01:42:16 PM

I thought you left forum for good, how come still here?

LMAO.  You really expected him to just moderate?

Glen has finally wiggled his way into being the decider, ruler of the roost, king of the castle, . . . Very "Trumpian."  Notice how EVERY post must be about him in some way - even in his reply to the above!!!!!  So now we have a moderator who is a control freak, narcissistic bully.

At the same time Glen has no problem making condescending and/or sarcastic remarks about how others perceive and play the game.

Jimske

Quote from: Jimske on June 01, 2018, 02:53:51 PM
LMAO.  You really expected him to just moderate?

Glen has finally wiggled his way into being the decider, ruler of the roost, king of the castle, . . . Very "Trumpian."  Notice how EVERY post must be about him in some way - even in his reply to the above!!!!!  So now we have a moderator who is a control freak, narcissistic bully.

At the same time Glen has no problem making condescending and/or sarcastic remarks about how others perceive and play the game.

Jimske

I used to watch the Apprentice with endorsement of Donald!  The show was not about him, was it?

Actually my cousin worked for Donald for 20 years at the Taj or so and when he cleaned out his desk a little bit ago (a couple of years back now) he gave me the original and one of 3 copies of the book that built the Taj.  I also have a Silver & Gold belt buckle Donald gave me by in the early 90's at a baccarat tournament (those great old bac tournaments in AC and Vegas that went by the way side). 

It is not about me!  It is about sharing, something you seem to forget about also.

Here, I will share:  https://betselection.cc/alrelax's-blog/trump-taj-atlantic-city-and-donald-trump/msg57352/#msg57352

What's wrong with Trump? 

I'm also moderator of this thread. I don't mind people disagreeing and even embarrassingly taking turns to defensive expressions if they lose it. I like watching people losing their cool. It means that they have lost their capacity to back up a position. Like it or not they are taking a position. I don't have a problem with Trump either. He, just like Capitalism, has raised more people out of poverty than all the well-intention socialistic programs that has plagued our country. The opposition in this case have completely lost it. The people that hate Trump, just like the loyal opposition on these forums regarding probability and advantage, go bat guano crazy when they get honestly challenged for their opinions. People like to make their stands on flimsy facts. There is nothing wrong with their conclusions. They are just misled conclusions that would make perfect sense if the facts were true. But people like where they are getting their facts from. They like the groups that are giving them these facts.


That is why I started this thread. Jimske asked if I was getting tired of these same old arguments. So I found a way to take it to the next level. Why is there an assumption that you must have an edge in order to win? Who is feeding these facts to the world? Are they right?

Quote from: Gizmotron on June 01, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

That is why I started this thread. Jimske asked if I was getting tired of these same old arguments. So I found a way to take it to the next level. Why is there an assumption that you must have an edge in order to win? Who is feeding these facts to the world? Are they right?

To answer your question, I have no edge over the casino that I can identify, likewise the casino has a 'mountain' (rather than an edge)  over myself, a real player with real cash.  That mountain that they have is 'Time' and 'Unlimited Chip Inventory' as well as the emotional and psychological problems/confusion and slip from reality that I inflict upon myself at certain times while gambling. 

However, I found a way to turn the tables slightly on the casinos and it has nothing to do with systems and math and statistical results in the classical sense, etc.

Quote from: alrelax on June 01, 2018, 04:01:36 PM
To answer your question, I have no edge over the casino that I can identify, likewise the casino has a 'mountain' (rather than an edge)  over myself, a real player with real cash.  That mountain that they have is 'Time' and 'Unlimited Chip Inventory' as well as the emotional and psychological problems/confusion and slip from reality that I inflict upon myself at certain times while gambling. 

However, I found a way to turn the tables slightly on the casinos and it has nothing to do with systems and math and statistical results in the classical sense, etc.

You made those methods, beliefs, practices, and experience clear to me the first day that I read your posts. I knew that you could win, and do it because of your intellect and experience. We are very few in the gambling world, I guess. People are now using hot numbers to expose conditional randomness to detection. These same people used to oppose me. Now they have found their own way to "read the random," to quote Spike. They have moved on from systems and math to situational awareness. And the best of us have also added the human nature factor to improve that skill. That is you too. I have watched you try to share experience. I think it can't be done. People do not have the ability to assimilate 1000's of lost sessions. They don't have skills at watching changes occur in the variance. They can't even relate to standing back or outside the data and seeing its real over all significance. I tried to teach that. I've tried to share it here. It's sort of like pushing a large boulder up a hill with your nose.


They all want a simple, step by step, set of rules that will make gambling like taking money out of an ATM machine. If it takes work and a lot of experience then they don't want it. Who's fault is that?


This entire subject, gambling to win, is another extreme mountain top that I give to myself. I like to summit and then ski off the most difficult, able to be skied route. I'm killer diller at that. I want to be that good at this. It looks like I'm there too. I've beaten the monkey on my back.

Quote from: alrelax on June 01, 2018, 02:13:01 PM
What is your problem?


I've none, but you seem to have for reasons you understand better.

In other words, I have had complaints about you and Xander and Mike and another one or two, I brushed them off.  You actually do stop people from posting and it is not right.


First, it's inaccurate to place me on the same fate as Xander, Mike and GreenGuy because we are different persons with different views which might or might not happen to agree.
By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors.
Some of the fair sex are more "man" than men who were born man but their mentality is not so masculine.
Even if I wanted to stop people from posting I couldn't stop them because this decision depends completely from themselves.
It is healthy to have polyphony and different views, it's impossible for everyone to agree, for those who have fragile egos and they are acting like prima-donas who are seeking attention they are very sensitive on criticism, thus for them there are better places to be, please feel free to buy a "parrot" in order to listen your "echo".
My purpose, I'm speaking for me and nobody else, was never to satisfy your ears, or should I say eyes, by confirming whatever someone might claim whether I agree or not.


You and Xander need to stop twisting and assuming things.  If you don't have real good grasp of the English language take a course at your local secondary school. Xander claims my ego is hurt and I can't take opposing views, which is totally not why I am cutting down on writing, it is lack of interaction and lack of comments.


Oh really?!
What have I twisted and assumed??
I believe Xander was spot on but I might be wrong, who knows.
Strange, after all these I've found something I agree with you, the lack of comments/feedback/interaction is something which troubles me too and for some time makes me to consider seriously retiring from the forums.


I cut down on writing about baccarat, etc., because  I feel it is a waste of my time, self serving (LOL) but when there is no interaction, that convinces myself I am wasting my time writing about actual live baccarat in USA casinos, etc.



Strange, after all these I've found something I agree with you, the lack of comments/feedback/interaction is something which troubles me too and for some time makes me to consider seriously retiring from the forums.

Here it is in plain English.  If you cannot be respectful, non offending, refrain from below the crotch joking and insults (unless it is in a sportsmanship like manner with a buddy/member friend of yours on here, etc.), etc., you will be moderated and eventually banned if you persist.  If you do not agree with someone, me or anyone else, state it respectful and state your case with your technical terms and beliefs and then stop.  Don't chase members around on this board.  Skip their posts or block them, everyone has a right to a neutral, clean and comfortable atmosphere here, everyone.  Again, if you do not agree or can not abide by that, leave.  If you do not like or can not accept what I say, take it up with my partner Vic.  Thank you, stay and enjoy, but be 100% respectful and stop the negativity.

By expressing what I really think it doesn't make it offending and non respectful, if everyone were to follow what you suggest then we would witness almost everyone to interact with him/herself since everybody else would just pass it.
It is because of those persons with fragile egos and intolerance on criticism who have disintegrated, fragmented and divided the forums!
It seems that reality equals negativity for you, I'm sorry but I'm not the one who is selling the "pink glasses"!

From Gizmo:  "They all want a simple, step by step, set of rules that will make gambling like taking money out of an ATM machine. If it takes work and a lot of experience then they don't want it. Who's fault is that?"

Ref Hard Work, Etc.:

You know, I came in at 4:15AM this morning to catch up on all my company invoicing and clear up a huge problem with a national department store closing 130 or so of its mall based department stores with auto centers.  We are doing about 2 dozen of the auto centers, their environmental waste and handling of the products, lift oil draining and battery shelf acid and clean up, etc.  Their disposal bills are astronomical and the corporate big-wigs had a complete fit yesterday.  Over $200,000.00 for less than 15 stores I am handling, just the disposal fees, not our fees which are equal or greater than those fees.  Thank the EPA for the disposal fees and the left-side the past few years on that one.  Anyway, I got side tracked with your post but it was a good time to set straight everything anyway.

My primary (unofficial field manager) guy walks in this morning at 6:30AM.  He is supposed to be hear at 7AM.  I knew something was brewing on that one.  Employees don't come early around here any longer.  His paycheck last week for right at $3,800.00.  40 hours at $42.00 hour, raised from $35.00 last year and that was raised from $28.50 the year before I think it was and I think 25 hours overtime at double time.  Anyway, he gets a tons of benefits from a small company such as ours.  Health policy that was co-paid at 50% up to last year and he demanded full 100% company paid health which my partner gave him 6 months ago, and matching 401K contributions, etc.  This morning he says, "Listen, I want a company Apple phone at no charge as well as a company car and I will put my own gas in it or I will resign".  I said, I will call and recommend to my partner, but up to him, I turned in my resignation my partner already but he did not accept yet and I am finishing up my jobs and the summer. 

He is worth it, he has a clean CDL license, he drug and alcohol test free every time, he is certified in large excavators/track hoes, skid steers, side dumps and dump trucks, vac trucks and he can do soil and water testing for the laboratory procedures we do.  He has shoring and trenching certification and Haz-whopper also, etc.  The guy is pulling down with benefits about $250k a year, he did not grad college.  He is smart, works hard and never complains at a job site, even 20 hours straight out there on the interstate, he gets the job done, when the others are crying and threatening to quit.  It would take 3 regular employees to replace him alone and he knows it. 

There are not many of these types going around, he out works most small business owners I see every day.  The guy lives in a neighborhood with doctors and lawyers and business owners and he works for us operating heavy equipment and driving a truck.

The kicker is, all his peers, co workers here and everywhere else, has about 20%, of what this guy has and makes, if that! 

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 04:57:43 PM

By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors.

The only thing worth answering, IMO--is the statement you made:  "By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors", as I want the record straight here.

Yes, I did receive several complaints and statements as to why active posters that were extremely well liked and thought of, IMO and the opinion of many others here-was you and a few others in your responses and constant degradation and belittling and everything else about others opinions/findings and statements, etc., cause them frustration and aggravation of sorts--so that is why they cease post any longer or cut down about 99% of what they used to.  I forwarded these in part, after getting permission from the original PM'er to myself as the privacy act and protocol that goes with PM's that you guys do not think exist, and Vic has some of them. 

Vic, care to comment??  Did I or did I not send you several/numerous complaints, concerns and reason why many members here stop posting and became extremely less active over the past year or longer??  Vic, confirm or deny, for the benefit of the record please. 

That is all I have to say about this subject matter.  My decision to cut way down and/or not post regarding the way I used to was based upon the people I named, as well as the lack of response/interaction and concern.  Why waste my time?  Same as my little 5 year old, if I do not sit down and color with him, play with his matchbox and hot wheels, ride bikes with him, swim with him, watch TV with him, play with play-dough with him, etc., etc., he will not either.  He might as well stand in the corner after school until bed time.  Since I have other things to do, I will do those things instead of spending time on the board.  I gave my reasoning and it is the 100% truth, reality and factual thought process, but a few select guys here turn it around as to the made up fragile ego and other untrue and assumed BullS**t you and Xander and another one or two will state. 

For the record, the brutal and honest truth.  Forward now with positive and board concerns and my visions as approved, endorsed and desired by Vic, etc.  News Desk, Live Skype or similar, practice tables, competition, studio type broadcast (not defined yet), maybe even an elite group of professional full time baccarat gamblers and charge them $1.49 monthly subscription fee just to say it is a premium exclusive club or something like that, LOL. Whatever. 

Quote from: alrelax on June 01, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
The only thing worth answering, IMO--is the statement you made:  "By whom you had complaints?
A true man must keep his word, support it with actions and speak directly straightforward rather than hiding behind others and creating gossips and rumors", as I want the record straight here.

Yes, I did receive several complaints and statements as to why active posters that were extremely well liked and thought of, IMO and the opinion of many others here-was you and a few others in your responses and constant degradation and belittling and everything else about others opinions/findings and statements, etc., cause them frustration and aggravation of sorts--so that is why they cease post any longer or cut down about 99% of what they used to.  I forwarded these in part, after getting permission from the original PM'er to myself as the privacy act and protocol that goes with PM's that you guys do not think exist, and Vic has some of them. 

Vic, care to comment??  Did I or did I not send you several/numerous complaints, concerns and reason why many members here stop posting and became extremely less active over the past year or longer??  Vic, confirm or deny, for the benefit of the record please. 

That is all I have to say about this subject matter.  My decision to cut way down and/or not post regarding the way I used to was based upon the people I named, as well as the lack of response/interaction and concern.  Why waste my time?  Same as my little 5 year old, if I do not sit down and color with him, play with his matchbox and hot wheels, ride bikes with him, swim with him, watch TV with him, play with play-dough with him, etc., etc., he will not either.  He might as well stand in the corner after school until bed time.  Since I have other things to do, I will do those things instead of spending time on the board.  I gave my reasoning and it is the 100% truth, reality and factual thought process, but a few select guys here turn it around as to the made up fragile ego and other untrue and assumed BullS**t you and Xander and another one or two will state. 

For the record, the brutal and honest truth.  Forward now with positive and board concerns and my visions as approved, endorsed and desired by Vic, etc.  News Desk, Live Skype or similar, practice tables, competition, studio type broadcast (not defined yet), maybe even an elite group of professional full time baccarat gamblers and charge them $1.49 monthly subscription fee just to say it is a premium exclusive club or something like that, LOL. Whatever.

Why those people you are talking about don't step forward to prove what you are claiming?
How do we know if you are talking about a small minority or the vast majority??
All we have are your claims, nothing more.
If you want to buy the forum and make it the way you consider proper it's all fine with me since I'm not planing to stay around much longer.
Last but not least, I don't give a stuff about your personal life because you are not my friend or relative.
Do you get it?!

Quote from: Blue_Angel on June 01, 2018, 06:20:03 PM

Why those people you are talking about don't step forward to prove what you are claiming?
How do we know if you are talking about a small minority or the vast majority??
All we have are your claims, nothing more.
If you want to buy the forum and make it the way you consider proper it's all fine with me since I'm not planing to stay around much longer.
Last but not least, I don't give a stuff about your personal life because you are not my friend or relative.
Do you get it?!

Excellent, the end, over.  We see eye-to-eye perfectly.  We are past the planning stages as you suggest thou.  But do appreciate your thoughts and comments and wishes.

Ok, I get it.  Some of you aren't "mathboyz.". Going out on a limb though, I'm going to assume that at least some of you that aren't "mathboyz" are hopefully at least "literate boyz.". If you are, then why do you assume that all of the experts and mathematicians are wrong, based on what they've written?  After all, they comprehend the math and basic probability, but you guys don't since you're not one of the "mathboyz!" 

If I were you, I think I'd make an effort to learn the math and basic probability, rather than trying to make it cool to be ignorant.   

Gizmo,

Either you have the edge or you don't.  You can't beat a negative expectation game in the long run for the same reason that you can't multiply a negative number times a positive number and produce a positive outcome.  Money management, gaming discipline don't make a dent in the long run expectation.

Sorry, just the facts

-Xander
Literate and I don't suck at math!