Interesting 10 part article on the legendary Archie Karas who turned $ 50 into
$ 40,000,000 betting $ 300,000 on dice and baccarat......and then lost it all !
Recently arrested for cheating at blackjack in California and has been entered into the Nevada "Black Book" barring him from all the casinos in Nevada.
http://www.pokernews.com/search/news.htm?q=archie+karas
Best to start at article 1 and then go through the next 9 articles.
I remember reading the Archie Karas story years ago. Somewhere he said how he won all that money (I guess you can call that his system)...his story is that he just didn't care about money, and that's why he won.
I now wonder about that. Someone that doesn't care about money caught cheating. Maybe he meant he didn't care about the casino's money lol.
Still, if you gamble for long enough there is an addiction there, it would be hard to not have gambling money after all those years.
Quote from: alrelax on September 18, 2015, 12:11:27 PM
The articles will not tell you and he will not admit the 'other' funds that he borrowed, stole or had from some other sources.
He fully admits to borrowing $10k to start with. He went to Vegas with $50 in his pocket but borrowed $10k to play poker.
Quote from: alrelax on September 18, 2015, 12:11:27 PM
Next time you go to the casino, idolize the fool and walk through the parking lot with your $50.00, $200.00 or $1,000.00 and repeat that you will make $40,000,000.00 soon gambling and indulge in whores, booze, suites and limo's.
I've already done the indulging and had a wonderful time. When I get around to finding $10k I'll start my climb to fame (and maybe leave infamy behind).
Quote from: alrelax on September 18, 2015, 12:11:27 PM
He was a loser and always will be a loser.
Your jealousy is showing again. No need to be nasty. He once played the current World Poker Champion heads up for his last million dollars and won. That's just one time he was a winner. He was a winner hundreds of times I'm sure.
I use the word infamy very loosely, I actually have a good job with a police clearance and haven't done much wrong. I'm generally not known for mainstream views though and very few know my career achievements that I would go out of my way to be known for if I were a politician. But rather I guess people talk about my eccentricities behind my back I'm sure. Maybe it's just paranoia!
I read through all of these articles. Interesting read. But I do agree with alrelax. Archie Karas is a loser. We can probably add fool to that as well.
Only the greatest moron in history of the human race would turn 10k into 40 million and then turn 40 million into 0k. An amazing winning streak for sure. The most amazing? Probably not. It is only the fact that he kept parlaying his winnings into a larger and larger bet that attracted so much attention. I would wager other people have had winning streaks equal or greater in length than Mr. Karas, but did not relentlessly press their bets to the highest action possible.
A complete disregard for money is a good way bet big. Winning those bets makes you a big winner. But it was a double edged sword, a complete disregard for money is a good way to lose big. And that's what he did. Not just that time, but every time thereafter too! This Moron of Morons gambled up over a million dollars on several occasions after his big loss and still proceeded to lose it all back, again and again and again. Is this not the definition of insanity?
He said that if he had made 80 million he would have put half of it back. NONSENSE. Pure lies. He is deep in the throes of his addiction, a mindless gambler, no different than a mindless heroine addict that lives for nothing more than their next fix.
I don't like how people call him a gambler, because I am a gambler. But I'm not the ignorant moron this guy is. He clearly knows absolutely zip about gambling. He won his initial money in billiards, a game of skill. And he continued on to win millions more in head to head poker against the best in the world. Another game of skill. And here he is at the top. As an ex pool shark he should know (unless he's a moron) that once you are proven unbeatable, nobody will play you. So you win all you can until the cat is out of the bag.
But this guy is bored, the monkey of his addiction has grown into a gorilla. Now he's passing time at the craps and baccarat tables? Sure why not. Low stakes just to stay busy? employ some sort of MM scheme a large BR can handle? Nope. Table max every time, and then requests for larger table maxes.
In retrospect he realizes Binion got the upper hand with 300k pass line bets with no odds. Moving all of Archie's action off of the free odds and onto the house edge of the pass line. I call Bhullshite! I say he had no clue wtf he was doing and someone told him about how craps works and house edges after the fact. Moron.
And now he's caught cheating at cards? I thought cards were his game? a game of skill. Now all this does is offer suspicion that he was marking cards back in the day when he was playing all of the world's greatest poker players. Especially, if you reconsider the remark he made about not even looking at his hole cards as he called and raised bets. And reconsider the world of billiards, pool halls, hustlers and con men. Where he came from. Most likely a cheat from the days of shooting marbles.
Just exactly what kind of moron fails to create perpetual income, and therefore an unlimited number of buy ins, with 40 million dollars in capital? Archie Karas, that's who. Moron of Morons.
This guy just makes gamblers look bad.
HBS
You got it all upside down.
Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k. These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big. Well guess what...it doesn't happen. Ask the machine players. I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins. Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making. They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose. So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out. Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler. He's a beggar or a hoper. All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED. A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes. They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler. The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts. Why? A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE. The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff. A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino. Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose. Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave. Is this anyone on this forum? A: No. Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK. I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money. They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made. Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing. Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.
Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict. He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory. But in doing so he's become the everyday loser. He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER. Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS. They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory. At least Archie once had glory.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 27, 2015, 11:22:34 PMthe monkey of his addiction has grown into a gorilla.
[smiley]cxp/lol.gif[/smiley]
Quote from: Mars Rocks on September 28, 2015, 04:05:46 AM
You got it all upside down.
Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k. These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big. Well guess what...it doesn't happen.
SERIOUSLY, Great, one of the greatest things ever posted on this board. So far into reality it stinks of Dad telling his son, to do something that Dad did a thousand times and son did maybe once.
Nothing against anyone on this board, there is more slamming and talking down for the 'reality' and 'been there done that players' then I do believe any other board has.
And, yes the guy is a loser jerk, he is not a role model by any means or way. Flat betting, wagering once or twice with one or two units or four units, waiting and waiting and waiting and then playing a small section of a shoe, you will go no where. Do it and keep doing it. You are entitled.
I think my largest win in one night was at Mohegan Sun, right around $190k off a $12,000.00 buy-in. I have won countless times $50k to $100k. Many times over $100k to $125k. When I say 'Won', means cashing out, end of trip, leaving the casino. Never got above that $200k mark. I have bought in, initial bank roll (very seldom do that thing with changing money and repeated continual buy in's) with anywhere up to $50k, usually $10-20k when I was living in New Jersey because of the frequency we went, almost every week or several times a week. Once moved off the east coast, the trips usually have a bankroll of $30 to $60k as a norm. I learned one thing, if you can't do it off of your initial bankroll (IF THAT BR IS SOMETHING REALSTIC) and NOT talking about $1,000 or $2,500.00 at a $100 min table either, you cannot do it on that trip.
Almost all of my sizable wins never cut deep into a bankroll, Almost all of the sizable losses did cut deep into the BR and never stopped, no matter what I tried or where I went.
There is something in gambling no one has ever figured out and no one will ever. It is the following: When it is losing time, it is and you can't change it.
Quote from: alrelax on September 28, 2015, 10:57:52 AM
There is something in gambling no one has ever figured out and no one will ever. It is the following: When it is losing time, it is and you can't change it.
I can relate to this and am interested in how you get out of the casino when it's losing time (or what your solution might be). One of my biggest problems is I can't leave. It's an insult to my soul when everything I do is wrong and I so strive to fix it and then so do more damage. I can offer one piece of advice though...don't be a happy loser, because it makes it worse. I now live by a quote from another famous (albeit degenerate) gambler..."show me a happy loser and I'll show you a loser". The adage is far deeper than it first seems.
Again, I'm interested in ideas to deal with this situation.
Quote from: Mars Rocks on September 28, 2015, 04:05:46 AM
You got it all upside down.
Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k. These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big. Well guess what...it doesn't happen. Ask the machine players. I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins. Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making. They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose. So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out. Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler. He's a beggar or a hoper. All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED. A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes. They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler. The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts. Why? A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE. The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff. A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino. Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose. Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave. Is this anyone on this forum? A: No. Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK. I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money. They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made. Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing. Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.
Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict. He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory. But in doing so he's become the everyday loser. He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER. Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS. They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory. At least Archie once had glory.
+1
Couldnt agree more. Send it in and either win big or go home. Why waste countless hours unless you're retired and a grinder. No way you could win millions doing this with a paltry 5-10k bankroll.
BUT, if you went with 5-10k and sent it in 2k a hand, got hot, let it ride, could easily hit for 100k or more....Fear would strike the casino.
Quote from: Mars Rocks on September 28, 2015, 04:05:46 AM
You got it all upside down.
Most so called gamblers will turn $10k into $0 without going over $12k. These are mostly the self professed intelligent gamblers who are careful with their money, want to bet small and win big. Well guess what...it doesn't happen. Ask the machine players. I have no doubt that they think they are intelligent because they are betting small and can win big, sometimes 100 times their bet on a good set of free spins. Well guess what also...the wins they get are still never enough to make up for all their small bets that they spent hours intelligently making. They are actually paying the largest house edge in the casino and they all lose. So let's now go to the baccarat player who also intelligently studies the histories, bets small until his system starts working (which it rarely does) and then plans to clean the casino out. Well guess what...1. It's not intelligent; and 2) He's not a gambler. He's a beggar or a hoper. All he's doing is getting himself MORE ADDICTED. A bit like a smoker who finds cheap cigarettes. They're not brilliant, they are killing themselves just like the sensible gambler. The casino loves the so called sensible gambler who restricts his bets and studies the history charts. Why? A: Because the casino is making their rake RISK FREE. The more small bets the punter makes the more certain is the casino's commission and the more the CEOs will rub their hands together and drink champagne; and they'll even reward such a player with comps for doing a good job of staying so long and pacing their bets.
Now a real gambler wouldn't fall for that stuff. A real gambler would run it up and strike fear into both himself and the casino. Bet the max and go home and take it if you lose. Don't take hours to do it, just run it up and leave. Is this anyone on this forum? A: No. Once their bankroll runs out after significant time in the casino; THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING...THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY AND WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK. I'm sure there is a so called intelligent gambler or two here that would like to borrow money. They've got it all worked out and are sure they now know the mistakes they made. Well again, they aren't gamblers, they can't take losing. Part of gambling by my definition is accepting the outcome of your wagers.
Having said that I concede that Archie Karas is now an addict. He wants to get his money back and return to his former glory. But in doing so he's become the everyday loser. He was once great and he was once a GAMBLER. Not like every other player in the casinos who are intelligent small betting LOSERS. They are the morons that never even had a chance at glory. At least Archie once had glory.
No. I have the right of it. Your idolization of Archie Karas is misplaced.
You need to talk about units. 10k into 12k is the same as 100 bucks into 120 bucks. Not that difficult and I'm sure accomplished regularly by both the adept and the fool. Self professed intelligent gamblers aren't the problem. It's the author of this krap article and others that prop him up as some great gambler, when he is nothing more than a common failure. Betting small to win big is not my position, and go ahead and leave machine players out of it. They make no decisions, they just push the button. Only exception is VP.
Now I'm a Baccarat player, but regardless of my table game choice except Poker and BJ every game has a house edge. So by your definition even Archie Karas was 1. Unintelligent and 2. not a gambler but a BEGGAR AND A HOPER because the clown was playing craps with no strategy just flat betting hoping his luck would last forever. No, not hoping. Mentally incapacitated with a firm belief that he would never lose, could never lose, that he could continue to win more bets than he lost flat betting. Just like you said, all Archie Karas was get himself MORE addicted.
The casino loves every gambler. They have a built in edge. They do not love the gambler who charts past events any more than they love the gambler that plays on a whim. They gambler they love above all other gamblers is the one that it under funded. Which is Archie Karas. Turning his 40mil into 133 betting units of 300k. Except that isn't accurate. He made 300k pass line bets and then placed/bought number on top of that. So we are looking at 500k to 1mil in action. That reduces his bankroll to 40 to 80 units. Moron.
How is the definition of a REAL gambler someone who continues to run his bets up until he strikes fear into HIMSELF? and the casino?. What the H E double hockey sticks are you talking about, or thinking..... Bet the max and go home? Archie bet the max, but never went home, so again by your definition he is not a real gambler "...take it if you lose.." Archie didn't take it, he rebet and rebet, and had his money boxes drilled open so he could get to more of his money and win back his losses. HE DIDN'T ACCEPT LOSING GOT MORE MONEY AND TRIED TO WIN HIS LAST ROLL BACK.
one or two intelligent gamblers here who would like to borrow money? ARCHIE BORROWED MONEY CONTINOUSLY!!!
Again by your very own definition Archie Karas is no gambler, because he "...can't take losing..." Part of your gambling definition is accepting accepting the outcome of your wagers. Archie Karas clearly refused to accept the outcome of his wagers MORE THAN ANY GAMBLER EVER. Not just this 40million dollar failure, but all of his mini runs after this one. Several of which were again in the millions. So after being taught one of the biggest lessons you can learn in gambling to the tune of 40mil, he made the same mistake again, and again, and again. How can he be anything other than the greatest moron that ever lived?
Glory? what the heck are you talking about? Oh he suffers from a life destroying addiction, he's broke, labeled a cheat, and banned from every casino in Nevada. But he's got Glory in the eyes of the misguided! I bet that let's him get a good nights sleep, in the gutter, with a concrete curb for a pillow.
He isn't just now addicted, he was addicted long before he started this glorious run of legendary losses.
The writing of the article is misleading garbage. Archie Karas was born in 1951. In 1992 he was 41 years old. He didn't just arrive in the USA with 50 bucks and turn it into 40mil. Not at all. He spent 20 years in pool halls learning how to hustle, and 20 years in backroom poker games learning how to cheat and not get cheated. Archie Karas was a 20 year loser before he became INFAMOUS. He even had to start his run on BORROWED MONEY. And in the 20 years following his INFAMOUS RUN, he continues to be the same loser. A hopeless gambler. In his very own words he says ".... I always knew I could get back to where I was....."
By your own definition he's unintelligent and not a gambler. Fornicate a bunch of GLORY, I'll be a moron by your definition, it is obviously the smarter and more successful choice.
Quit idolizing this guy before you become just like him.
HBS
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on September 29, 2015, 02:30:31 PM
+1
Couldnt agree more. Send it in and either win big or go home. Why waste countless hours unless you're retired and a grinder. No way you could win millions doing this with a paltry 5-10k bankroll.
BUT, if you went with 5-10k and sent it in 2k a hand, got hot, let it ride, could easily hit for 100k or more....Fear would strike the casino.
That's the thing. He did send it in. He won big. And from there? he kept sending it in, and when he lost? he didn't go home. He got more and more and more until he had nothing.
Nobody is advocating spending countless hours grinding up 40 million $25 at a time. Winning 100k with a 2k bet is turning 1u into 50 units with a 5u bank roll. "getting hot" is a rare occurrence. How many times are you going to lose that first bet because you are 'cold'? how often are you going to lose those parlays because you are 'neutral'? How many more times are you going to buy in looking for that 'hot' streak?
"...could easily hit 100k..." Er... with a house edge slightly against you, it will always be slightly more 'easier' to not hit 100k parlaying your bets. It actually takes less over all losses to thwart a parlay, so winning more than half your bets is a hot streak, but an aggressive parlay can still fail in this environment.
And Archie wasn't letting it ride, he was trying to flat bet his way to unlimited wealth. So lets back up and buy in for 10k and flat bet 2k units and see just how hot that streak has to be to hit 100k in profit.
What "fear" are you talking about? The casino only fears cheaters and BJ card counting teams.
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 29, 2015, 04:27:38 PM
What "fear" are you talking about? The casino only fears cheaters and BJ card counting teams.
HBS
You are absolutely correct, casinos will not throw out or ban 'skilled baccarat players', never ever. If they ever did there was more to it than you think. Sit down and win 1 or 5 or 10 million at baccarat and all you will see is a constant few suits in the pit, nearby.
Quote from: Mars Rocks on September 28, 2015, 01:04:04 PM
I can relate to this and am interested in how you get out of the casino when it's losing time (or what your solution might be). One of my biggest problems is I can't leave. It's an insult to my soul when everything I do is wrong and I so strive to fix it and then so do more damage. I can offer one piece of advice though...don't be a happy loser, because it makes it worse. I now live by a quote from another famous (albeit degenerate) gambler..."show me a happy loser and I'll show you a loser". The adage is far deeper than it first seems.
Again, I'm interested in ideas to deal with this situation.
Are you absolutely kidding me?! I mean FORK! You can't accept your own losses!? I thought that is how you defined a gambler? ".... accepting the outcome of your wagers..." You lost! accept it and go home.
Are you telling me you re buy in after you lose your BR? So it is YOU that is the THEY in "THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING.....THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY TO WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK..."
Well, you sure seem to be '...an intelligent gambler that has it all worked out.." You want to borrow some money?
Take your own advice, and spend the next 80 years practicing without real money.
HBS
PS *sigh* Your problem is easily fixed, and you shouldn't have had to come here to find a solution. It's not a good sign that you did/do.
Just take your buy in to the casino. Leave your credit/debit cards at home. Leave your check book at home. Make sure you have plenty of fuel in your vehicle to get you home and bring a cooler/lunchbox and pack a few sandwiches and some drinking water in it. This way when you bust, you can't re buy in, you have food and water if you can't get a meal comp, and you have fuel to get home.
Most importantly, do not go back to the casino for at least a week after a bust. You need to clear your head of it. If you are like me and go to the casino on the weekends, then skip the next trip, and stay away for 2 weeks. I took a 3 month hiatus after my last 'session bank roll' busting.
HBS
Alrelax,
Most of my larger session wins come without cutting deep into my BR as well. Twice recently I only bought in for half my normal amount, never got down more than a quarter of that 1/2 buy in and hit my win goal. I think some of the reasons the big wins don't normally come after huge draw downs is because of being gun shy. After a large draw down or a struggling session, one tends be satisfied getting to even or pulling in a small profit. Also, it takes more time to win big after steady losses. One could be out of time or just fatigued when it is time to continue to press on for larger profits.
What I find most aggravating is that all of my biggest winning streaks are after large draw downs. Lose 60 units and grind back those 60 and 5 more with the remaining 20u. It would be nice to win the 65 units out of the gate without losing the 60u first. Of course, I'm aware my win goal is an obstacle. But you get my drift.
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 29, 2015, 04:27:38 PM
That's the thing. He did send it in. He won big. And from there? he kept sending it in, and when he lost? he didn't go home. He got more and more and more until he had nothing.
Nobody is advocating spending countless hours grinding up 40 million $25 at a time. Winning 100k with a 2k bet is turning 1u into 50 units with a 5u bank roll. "getting hot" is a rare occurrence. How many times are you going to lose that first bet because you are 'cold'? how often are you going to lose those parlays because you are 'neutral'? How many more times are you going to buy in looking for that 'hot' streak?
"...could easily hit 100k..." Er... with a house edge slightly against you, it will always be slightly more 'easier' to not hit 100k parlaying your bets. It actually takes less over all losses to thwart a parlay, so winning more than half your bets is a hot streak, but an aggressive parlay can still fail in this environment.
And Archie wasn't letting it ride, he was trying to flat bet his way to unlimited wealth. So lets back up and buy in for 10k and flat bet 2k units and see just how hot that streak has to be to hit 100k in profit.
What "fear" are you talking about? The casino only fears cheaters and BJ card counting teams.
HBS
Well, I think most people who won 40 million would keep a little stashed like 5-10 million and you could live comfortably for the rest of your life.
What I'm saying is this. If you have 5k or 500 or 10k or 1k to go to a casino with knowingly that if you LOST, it's ok. Life goes on, your mortgage is paid, your car, etc. If you lose, that's entertainment. Myself, after 23+ years of gambling, I do not like to "grind" away, chip away, etc. I am there for one reason and one reason only, to win big or go home and enjoy my family.
Now, you may have some questions and I will try and explain. First off, what is a big score to me. To me, 10k is enough to satisfy me at one sitting. Now, if things are going good, GREAT!!! I will stay and win and make sure I keep 50-70% of what I won. That is for me, this will be different for everyone. Now, if I go 10x in a row and I pull out 10k and I have a 100k of the casinos money, I am going to PRESS my luck. Whatever my base unit was lets say 1 or 2k, that will now be 4-5k. 10k will now become 20 or 40k and I will be happy. That is how I look at it.
I have 3 reasons for this thinking in my life.
1) My time is valuable. I do not have time to sit and joke and be friends with people. I am there like its my job. My job is to extract money from the casino, that's the bottom line.
2) I have lost so much overall in 23+ years, me going there and winning 1k doesn't equal to 0.001% of what I am probably out overall (exaggerated a little), but you get my point.
3) See #2. 1k don't make or break me. I don't get phased by betting hundreds or a thousand of two a hand. Some people would "poop" themselves. I don't. Now, if I were betting 10k units, things I'm sure would be different. I just don't have time to pussy-foot around in a casino anymore. After 23 years I have seen enough and I know you won't grind away 1k a day or so and make millions. It happens once in a million. Sort of like hitting the slot jackpot for 5 million. Sure it will happen, but when and how many millions tried and lost? So, I don't go and take 5k and bet it on one hand. But I don't bet 25 dollars and work my way up. That to me is "retarded". I don't enjoy myself at a casino. Its not a place I visit friends or family. I don't like chit chatting with dealers or hosts or PB's or floors. See #1. My time is valuable.
So, to each their own. You have to have a PLAN FOR YOURSELF. My PLAN doesn't work for ANYONE except MYSELF and vice versa. Some people here are millionaires, some are paupers. Both are ok.
1k to me means probably squat to some and A LOT to others. But, if you enjoy that atmosphere, if you have no family/friends, are lonely, or grinding away, so be it. That is SUPER! It's just not for me, that is all I am saying.
I agree with how Archie PLAYED, I DO NOT agree with how he handled his MM.
As far as fear goes. Casinos fear, Flynt, Packer, Ivey (not a whale-maybe close), Bilzerian "whales", with DEEP pockets. They can make or break a casinos quarter. If you don't think a casino fears these type of people, you are a novice gambler with much to learn. if you don't know who I mentioned, you have much to learn.
ANY casino FEARS these people. They know what CAN happen to them if they get hot. They also welcome them because OBVIOUSLY, a casino has the mathematical EDGE. Remember though, NO ONE KNOWS when VARIANCE will come into play. 1st trip, 10th trip, 100th? Unless you have a crystal ball, no one knows.
A guy who bets 100k to 1 million per hand, casinos fear.....
NO ONE on this board will be FEARED!!! That is for sure.........
Lets take Al for a quick example because he has won more at once than probably anyone here.
Al won 190k at once. Lets say the next day he bought in for 190k and started betting 20k units or said F it, I am going for the GUSTO!!!! He started paying 40-50k units, knowingly he only had 4-5 units!!!! he didn't care, he was going for it!
Now, he started on FIRE! Won 10 in a row! his up a half a million!
Dinnertime. Al comes back and buys in for the 700k he has. Fires 100k a unit! Guy cannot lose and after 2-3 hours is up 2.3 million (23 units). You don't think a casino would be shitting themselves, a casino like foxwoods or you name the casino?
Lets say they fly Al in next week and he bets 200k units and wins 5 million! You bet your rear end they would become a little unglued and wonder wtf is going on!
Casinos do not have UNLIMITED funding. They are in such competition nowadays, the bottom line REALLY matters moreso now that EVER before. Look at the casinos that have closed down from AC to VEGAS and everywhere in between and look how many have popped up thinking they would be making BILLIONS and they are getting a small % of what they originally thought...Times have changed.
Mars said it best. Casinos know that most people will fire when down and be cautious when ahead. That is how 99.9% of the people who gamble play. Ask yourself the same thing in the mirror and don't lie to yourself, that wouldn't be nice!!!
That USED to be me 100% spot on. Keyword is "USED". I realized that there is no possible way for me to play and recoup what I have lost.
If I go with 10k and lose. Sure it sucks. I don't go home and reload and go back the next day. I am not rich. I wait 3-6 months, save up and RETRY!!!!
that's it.
I watched a couple of young Chinese players win quarter of million inside about 30 mins a few years back, betting $75 table max per hand, three of them (includes the GF) carried a few million in stacks of $100k plaques over to the cage, thought it was obscene that people could have so much money in a casino. I posted about it at the time, apparently it didn't impress gr8???
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on September 29, 2015, 06:16:25 PM
Lets take Al for a quick example because he has won more at once than probably anyone here.
Al won 190k at once. Lets say the next day he bought in for 190k and started betting 20k units or said F it, I am going for the GUSTO!!!! He started paying 40-50k units, knowingly he only had 4-5 units!!!! he didn't care, he was going for it!
Now, he started on FIRE! Won 10 in a row! his up a half a million!
Dinnertime. Al comes back and buys in for the 700k he has. Fires 100k a unit! Guy cannot lose and after 2-3 hours is up 2.3 million (23 units). You don't think a casino would be shitting themselves, a casino like foxwoods or you name the casino?
Lets say they fly Al in next week and he bets 200k units and wins 5 million! You bet your rear end they would become a little unglued and wonder wtf is going on!
Casinos do not have UNLIMITED funding. They are in such competition nowadays, the bottom line REALLY matters moreso now that EVER before. Look at the casinos that have closed down from AC to VEGAS and everywhere in between and look how many have popped up thinking they would be making BILLIONS and they are getting a small % of what they originally thought...Times have changed.
Pretty much spot on, and that's why they have those limits. It takes pretty hefty chuck of front money to go north of the table limits, if they let you go above table max and you got a shot at their money, they want to make sure that the player has a certain amount on deposit to allow the casino the extra risk for doing so.
There is a reason the limits are the way they are and it has a lot to do with going on hot streaks and great runs for the players. It has been well calculated on the casino's end, believe that.
Take Southern California for example, I know 2 large casinos that used to be $5k and $10k limits until the end of 2013. Now they are both $3k limit. If you want just a darn $5k limit you have to deposit at least $100k cash or have a $100k credit line and they will jack the min. to $200 or $300 a hand.
I think it's a given that most cats who buck up against the baccarats game are doin so without sufficient capital, hey hey.
Here's an article that was written at a time he had only run it up to $17Mil. This is the article I first read about the man.
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Gambling-Gamblin-Man_7761
Quote from: ArchieKaras
"I've been a millionaire over 50 times and dead broke more than I can count. Probably 1,000 times in my life," Archie recalls. "But I sleep the same whether I have ten or ten million dollars in my pocket."
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 29, 2015, 05:02:08 PM
Are you absolutely kidding me?! I mean FORK! You can't accept your own losses!? I thought that is how you defined a gambler? ".... accepting the outcome of your wagers..." You lost! accept it and go home.
Are you telling me you re buy in after you lose your BR? So it is YOU that is the THEY in "THEY DON'T ACCEPT LOSING.....THEY GET MORE MONEY AND TRY TO WIN THEIR LAST ROLL BACK..."
I have to admit I don't sleep the same whether I lose or win. I'm big enough to admit it too. You see the problem is in other areas of my career, when things go wrong or I don't understand something, I spend whatever time it takes to understand and fix it. This attitude works well everywhere else except the casino. But I'm learning and over time and improving. I'm also not Archie who can go broke and not worry about it. Archie could. It's also very likely the same reason I can't run it up like he does. If I have a good win I actually become happy and stop gambling. Things are right with the world. But Archie had a completely different psyche, one I need if I'm going to run it up; which I'd like to do and become famous.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 29, 2015, 05:02:08 PM
Well, you sure seem to be '...an intelligent gambler that has it all worked out.." You want to borrow some money?
I don't borrow money. I did once have a credit card but I have paid it back and no longer care to have one.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on September 29, 2015, 05:02:08 PM
Take your own advice, and spend the next 80 years practicing without real money.
Nah, I tell others that because they will lose if they gamble and I'd rather see them not destroy their lives. I choose to gamble thanks. I also see much more in gambling than someone who just wants to work out a system and win. Much much more. It's still improving my life even if I lose money.
That's only my advice for you and others ok! I don't care if you don't take the advice but at the same time my conscience is clean. Now listen up...you'll do yourself a huge favor by stopping gambling.
As far as leaving credit cards at home etc., well yes I do that and did know that one *sigh*. If I've recently earned plenty of money I don't heed that advice though, but yeah, I do that mostly. As far as not going back for two weeks, well yeah, I can add to that...you can go back and not take money and use up the comps and free meals and drinks that they give you. You can also write out histories and keep scorecards with play money and talk to your friends for that period. It will still clear your mind. The big thing is not to take money, if you do you'll bust. If you don't though you'll likely have a wonderful time.
Quote from: soxfan on September 29, 2015, 08:00:40 PM
I think it's a given that most cats who buck up against the baccarats game are doin so without sufficient capital, hey hey.
Well you can also reduce your minimum bet, assuming it's not below $10 yet, or even less at an online casino.
But it's a trade off between betting small which makes you bored and betting meaningful amounts to enjoy the game at the risk of going broke.
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on September 29, 2015, 06:19:55 PM
Mars said it best. Casinos know that most people will fire when down and be cautious when ahead. That is how 99.9% of the people who gamble play. Ask yourself the same thing in the mirror and don't lie to yourself, that wouldn't be nice!!!
That USED to be me 100% spot on. Keyword is "USED". I realized that there is no possible way for me to play and recoup what I have lost.
If I go with 10k and lose. Sure it sucks. I don't go home and reload and go back the next day. I am not rich. I wait 3-6 months, save up and RETRY!!!!
that's it.
Hear hear.
I have to admit I'm still reasonably new to baccarat and I still have this wrong attitude and I know to lose it and I will.
I've played many other games though and for quite a while even the machines. I've had some spectacular runs on the machines since I discovered a different pysche that I could never have achieved playing my old classical way, which is actually why I kept playing them for so long, I got so obsessed with a world of discovery. At the end though they always got their money back and I decided a house edge of 10% is too much for me. That's why I've changed to baccarat. But the game is so different and I still can't find the psyche I need for it. BUT I WILL! When I do I know the casino will change to a magic world again. I think the casino won't know what hit them when it happens.
Quote from: WorldBaccaratKing on September 29, 2015, 05:56:54 PM
Well, I think most people who won 40 million would keep a little stashed like 5-10 million and you could live comfortably for the rest of your life.
What I'm saying is this. If you have 5k or 500 or 10k or 1k to go to a casino with knowingly that if you LOST, it's ok. Life goes on, your mortgage is paid, your car, etc. If you lose, that's entertainment. Myself, after 23+ years of gambling, I do not like to "grind" away, chip away, etc. I am there for one reason and one reason only, to win big or go home and enjoy my family.
Now, you may have some questions and I will try and explain. First off, what is a big score to me. To me, 10k is enough to satisfy me at one sitting. Now, if things are going good, GREAT!!! I will stay and win and make sure I keep 50-70% of what I won. That is for me, this will be different for everyone. Now, if I go 10x in a row and I pull out 10k and I have a 100k of the casinos money, I am going to PRESS my luck. Whatever my base unit was lets say 1 or 2k, that will now be 4-5k. 10k will now become 20 or 40k and I will be happy. That is how I look at it.
I have 3 reasons for this thinking in my life.
1) My time is valuable. I do not have time to sit and joke and be friends with people. I am there like its my job. My job is to extract money from the casino, that's the bottom line.
2) I have lost so much overall in 23+ years, me going there and winning 1k doesn't equal to 0.001% of what I am probably out overall (exaggerated a little), but you get my point.
3) See #2. 1k don't make or break me. I don't get phased by betting hundreds or a thousand of two a hand. Some people would "poop" themselves. I don't. Now, if I were betting 10k units, things I'm sure would be different. I just don't have time to pussy-foot around in a casino anymore. After 23 years I have seen enough and I know you won't grind away 1k a day or so and make millions. It happens once in a million. Sort of like hitting the slot jackpot for 5 million. Sure it will happen, but when and how many millions tried and lost? So, I don't go and take 5k and bet it on one hand. But I don't bet 25 dollars and work my way up. That to me is "retarded". I don't enjoy myself at a casino. Its not a place I visit friends or family. I don't like chit chatting with dealers or hosts or PB's or floors. See #1. My time is valuable.
So, to each their own. You have to have a PLAN FOR YOURSELF. My PLAN doesn't work for ANYONE except MYSELF and vice versa. Some people here are millionaires, some are paupers. Both are ok.
1k to me means probably squat to some and A LOT to others. But, if you enjoy that atmosphere, if you have no family/friends, are lonely, or grinding away, so be it. That is SUPER! It's just not for me, that is all I am saying.
I agree with how Archie PLAYED, I DO NOT agree with how he handled his MM.
I would like to think that everyone who went from nothing to 40million would stash away some cash along the way. And that's my point, only a complete fool would do what Archie Karas did. As far as I can tell he had absolutely no MM plan. There is no justification labeling this guy as the greatest gambler ever.
I have no contention with your 'agreement' with his style of play. An aggressive up as you win approach. But Archie had no plan as you say. He never recognized or accepted the fact that he had hit either a plateau or the peak of his winning run. Your win big or go home broke style is not the same thing Archie did. You have a stop loss of 50 to 70 percent of your profit once you reach your win goal. Archie did not, plus, your bust out is only a minor set back, you have a means to continue to generate income outside the casino. Archie played until he was completely broke, and gambling was his occupation.
I hate to hear 23 yrs of gambling has built a mountain of losses that +1k a session won't even begin to climb. But, I'm glad that it hasn't destroyed you. You still have a family, important assets paid off, and a means to continue to generate a relatively large buy in that won't adversely affect your finances if you lose it.
I'm a little curios why you continue to go. You don't seem to have much hope of recouping your losses, and you don't need to, which is the best part. So with the high value you place on your time coupled with your disdain for the casino environment why do you still go? I don't see your motivation. I can only imagine that your aggressive approach is still accumulating losses. If it wasn't then you wouldn't have expressed your recoup as being hopeless. Why continue to give the casino money when you don't like doing it?
I don't want to say I agree with how Archie played. But I will say I agree with increasing your unit size as you accumulate a surplus of casino money. I agree, nobody is grinding up millions of dollars winning 1k a day betting $25. Triple your bankroll and double your unit size, rinse and repeat, see how far it takes you. And when you lose? reset back to your original unit size, start over and BANK THE REST. You're a Winner.
...... Ok, I agree there is something to be feared by a whale getting on a hot run betting millions of dollars per hand with no limit. And in the most unlikely extreme of an extremely unlikely event that a 'shrimp' parlays his winnings into 'whale' size bets during the hottest run of good luck imaginable. I do say " if you are going to dream, dream big". Still, casino really has very little to fear, they aren't forced to take your action. They have the authority to ban you, or reduce table limits. Striking fear in the heart of a casino isn't really a good goal to have, it's like having an overwhelming desire to get fired from the best paying job you ever had.
Yes I bet more after I lose. Not immediately like a marty. No need to look in a mirror, I'm honest with my play, I'm aware of what I'm getting myself into. And yes, I bet less as I recover prior losses, protecting the units I've regained. But I disagree with casino's knowing and banking on what 99.9% of gamblers do. And we may be talking about the same thing from a different perspective. But I think casino bank on the fact that 99.9% of gamblers are underfunded to survive the medium to larger swings in variance. And that after a series of wins, the average bettor will not recognize the corresponding and EQUAL number of losses as normal and increase their unit size and lose more money than they won in less bets.
HBS
Some joints do indeed sweat the cake. A buddy of mine got the gavel from a joint in the Reno NV a few years back simply for grinding the don't's usin the Star system and winnin regular. And, I know another cat who got the gavel from several joints in the mid-west simply for once again winnin regular grinding the donts' at the dice tables, hey hey.
Mars,
Look, you probably wouldn't give me ten dead flies for any advice I had to offer. I bear you no ill will. But you got some things you need to work out.
If you don't sleep the same after a loss than you do after a win, it's a good indicator you aren't using disposable income, or you are too wrapped up in gambling.
Obsessed with a world of discovery is playing right into the hands of the casino.
Baccarat should have been your first game, or BJ if you can count. Machines? NEVER, unless you are searching out a player advantage on the VP machines.
What different psyche are you talking about for different games? This sounds like a 'lie of imaginary benefits' to justify losses.
You aren't going to achieve such great success that 'the casinos won't know what hit them'. This is delusional.
The casino isn't a magical place, and you should never strive to see it that way again. You need to be deeply rooted in reality and see the casino for what it is at all times. Which is not a glamorous place at all.
" It's still improving my life even as I lose money" more delusion
A desire to be famous from gambling and idolizing the biggest loser of all time? worst motivation to gamble ever.
Being incapable of betting small because it's boring, needing to bet big with the risk of going broke to really enjoy yourself? Only if you enjoy being broke
and you aren't getting it. The entire casino is an assault on your senses, after a loss you need to stay away. This does not mean 'don't bring money, but hang out for dinner and comps' Don't go, don't talk about it, don't think about it.
I suspect there is little to no hope of you coming around to your senses, you seem too far gone already. People believe what they want to believe, the worst lie is the one we tell ourselves. However, as long as you are happy, that is all that matters.
HBS
@HBS, I've got 2 dead flies already. I'll get the rest for you over time. I'll keep them in a matchbox and gift them to you when I'm on the high roller table in the US one day and someone points you out to me. I'll buy you a drink too though.
Quote from: Mars Rocks on October 03, 2015, 01:34:36 AM
@HBS, I've got 2 dead flies already. I'll get the rest for you over time. I'll keep them in a matchbox and gift them to you when I'm on the high roller table in the US one day and someone points you out to me. I'll buy you a drink too though.
More delusion
Whatever gets you through the night
since you're having trouble sleeping
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on October 03, 2015, 04:10:33 PM
since you're having trouble sleeping
HBS
I sleep well. And I'm not delusional thank you very much. And I don't need your constant attacks just because I think Archie Karas is better than you.
Quote from: Mars Rocks on October 03, 2015, 08:17:00 PM
I sleep well. And I'm not delusional thank you very much. And I don't need your constant attacks just because I think Archie Karas is better than you.
You are the one that doesn't sleep well after a loss, doesn't know when to quit, and keeps chasing those losses. So no, you don't sleep well, or you aren't gambling anymore.
You're the one that thinks your getting some kind of metaphysical benefit from losing, that the casino is a magical place, and that once you learn how to run it up like Archie Karas then "...the casinos won't know what hit them..". That is delusion, I would say you are welcome, but you will never admit it, that's the problem with delusion.
I am unconcerned with what you "need" or "don't need". I'm not attacking you because you think Archie Karas is better than me, though that certainly would be a good enough reason. The guy is a confirmed loser and a cheat. I am neither. I'm on the offensive because everything you say is rubbish. Some guy asked a serious question after 4 months of study, and your reply was wait 80 yrs. And then you got a snide remark about alrelax's jealous showing because he called the object of your obsession a loser. And then there is the whole "baccarat money management 101" arrogant piece of ignorance.
HBS
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on October 04, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
Some guy asked a serious question after 4 months of study, and your reply was wait 80 yrs.
I'll put a post there for you saying you don't agree with me. Then you can go on discussing that topic on that thread.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on October 04, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
And then you got a snide remark about alrelax's jealous showing because he called the object of your obsession a loser.
Whilst I did put a cheeky post, alrelax defended himself and I left it. He's a big boy and he didn't leave because of me. I was making friends with him and I like him. I would give him more than ten dead flies for his thoughts.
Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on October 04, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
And then there is the whole "baccarat money management 101" arrogant piece of ignorance.
I'll put a post there too for you stating your concerns. Then you can go on discussing that topic on that thread.