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[Gizmotron]

So all boils down to: 2,1,2,3,4,5...etc
The progression alone makes you winner?
The cognition or the recognition of patterns??
If I see number 12 is around how can I know that this is not a hunch but clairvoyance?
HUH??

I don't worry about single numbers. My big bet for now is $100. My small bet is $5 It's not a mindless progression. I'm just searching for the absence of down streaks. They are easy to see. You must have a guess in the game on each spin just to see if you suck at it. If my goal was to lose as much as possible I would hunt for crashes in my swing charts. BTW, that 2,1,2,3,4,5, progression is John Patrick's not mine.


Your guess must be blind. It must contain no magical thinking. There is no trick to it. It has the mathematical chance to succeed based on the true odds for one spin and that is all. I just enjoy seeing 20 reds in a row, and that is not wishful thinking in any way. It just happens. I jump in and I either get started or I move to recover that loss. It's so simple. I'm not going to get killed by 20 losses in a row at the big price. But I am going to kill the casino at 20 reds in a row at the big price. It never takes a sixth sense.

[Mike]

Well that's your opinion which reflects a rigid mentality and it's based on the conventional "wisdom".


But please answer me honestly, since when it's really better to think and act like the majority (average Joe)?
And I'm not talking only about gambling, but about almost everything...
As a general rule in my life I'm trying to avoid the majority beliefs, habits, mentality, way of life in general.

BA,

It may be my "opinion" but at least I can back it up with facts and logic, which is not the case for those who say that guessing which RANDOM number is going to appear next has some validity. All you have is mere assertion. As I said, if you were able to demonstrate that these techniques actually work, you would have to use facts and logic, statistics, etc. ie, rational processes!

And if you are trying to avoid the majority of beliefs etc, aren't you as much controlled by them as someone who follows the herd? What is the value of going against the grain just for the sake of it?

@ Gizmo,

All I do is watch 12 different sets of 18 numbers. I'm not stuck to just the reds. I can see up ticks in any one of the sets. I can guess better than you can pontificate. I have the skill. You don't.

This would only work if there was some genuine asymmetry in the outcomes, or if previous outcomes influenced future outcomes, if only sometimes. This can and does happen in trading stocks because people tend to use the same indicators, and swings are often driven by what other people are doing. It doesn't happen in roulette (or Bacc) for obvious reasons, so your candlestick charts are irrelevant. You can jump on a trend or anti trend but there is never any tendency for it to continue, and if you can't identify any REAL underlying causes which correlate with the perceived trends, you're just following a random walk.

Just saying you are right does not actually make you right.

Correct, but this is just what you do. I give good reasons why your ideas can't work, whereas you just assert that they do. Haven't you noticed that trend?

[greenguy]

Sometimes lots of things work really well, and then sometimes they don't. The opposite is also true.

Gizmotron seems to focus and engage his free spirited play on this premise. I really don't see why that's so hard for people to accept.

Whoever else has an interest in playing the game this way might very well pay for some form of tuition to do so.

I'm fine with that, why aren't you?

Gizmo, when you opened your school, how much money in total did you earn from your students?

Let me put forward some perspective before you answer. A little while back I bought ten toy marbles form an auction house for $40. That's right, ten. I sold those ten toy marbles on ebay for $12,000.

What's my point? Give me a break, who should really care if some of us guys make a bit of dough from our expertise, whatever that may be?

Somebody, quite a few somebodies really wanted my marbles, so they paid the price.

[Blue_Angel]

BA,

It may be my "opinion" but at least I can back it up with facts and logic, which is not the case for those who say that guessing which RANDOM number is going to appear next has some validity. All you have is mere assertion. As I said, if you were able to demonstrate that these techniques actually work, you would have to use facts and logic, statistics, etc. ie, rational processes!

And if you are trying to avoid the majority of beliefs etc, aren't you as much controlled by them as someone who follows the herd? What is the value of going against the grain just for the sake of it?

By knowing the 99.9% of the total that does never equate with the 100% if you get what I mean...


Who said that I'm guessing, I'm not blindly, neither educatedly guessing, I'm using stats and results to prove my point to myself, not to others because my aim is not to be popular, my benefit doesn't come from others but from what I can do.
So don't tell me that what I've confirmed countless times is merely an illusion, what has happened will happen again...


Last but not least, being different is not a trend which you are embracing it just for the sake of it, or because you want to be accepted by a group of persons, or because you want to go against the tyrannical manipulation of your parents, it has practical benefits which you could never realize by doing otherwise.

[Blue_Angel]

I don't worry about single numbers. My big bet for now is $100. My small bet is $5 It's not a mindless progression. I'm just searching for the absence of down streaks. They are easy to see. You must have a guess in the game on each spin just to see if you suck at it. If my goal was to lose as much as possible I would hunt for crashes in my swing charts. BTW, that 2,1,2,3,4,5, progression is John Patrick's not mine.


Your guess must be blind. It must contain no magical thinking. There is no trick to it. It has the mathematical chance to succeed based on the true odds for one spin and that is all. I just enjoy seeing 20 reds in a row, and that is not wishful thinking in any way. It just happens. I jump in and I either get started or I move to recover that loss. It's so simple. I'm not going to get killed by 20 losses in a row at the big price. But I am going to kill the casino at 20 reds in a row at the big price. It never takes a sixth sense.

In other words you are betting for continuation and against alteration of any kind.
Therefore the continuations must dominate the alteration of states, but from my experience I think that alteration is prevalent because at the end nothing is being favored.
Just try to imagine results as a traveler who never stays too much at a specific place, just passes by and from time to time stays for a while, that's variety, that's variance.
If we had dominant continuation, or repetition, of any kind, then it would be clearer what's coming up and more boring to be frank.
But with all those alterations the game keeps the suspense and interest.
I perceive it as a good challenge, easier objectives lose interest quickly and are making you to move on to tougher and greater ones.

[CourierPete]

I agree, just go with your intuition. Some days you're just playing worse, and sticking to a system won't fix that.

[Gizmotron]

In other words you are betting for continuation and against alteration of any kind.
Therefore the continuations must dominate the alteration of states, but from my experience I think that alteration is prevalent because at the end nothing is being favored.
Just try to imagine results as a traveler who never stays too much at a specific place, just passes by and from time to time stays for a while, that's variety, that's variance.
If we had dominant continuation, or repetition, of any kind, then it would be clearer what's coming up and more boring to be frank.
But with all those alterations the game keeps the suspense and interest.
I perceive it as a good challenge, easier objectives lose interest quickly and are making you to move on to tougher and greater ones.

Spot on, you are right on about your assessment of my perception of what I look for. Yes, I expect to see allot of alterations, chaos, variance, whatever you want to call it, etc... I call it change if anyone is reading what I have written over the years. I attempt to speculate on change. That includes any trend that ends or any trend that starts. I bet on the middle. It has taken me years to accept that getting out while still in the middle has turned out to be the most effective of tactics for me. It's not easy to walk away with the right amount. It's like flying a plane on instruments. You don't react to what you feel. You act on what the instruments are telling you. I like the idea that if I execute a daily plan where I quit at the success point, a very easy to achieve point, then I know I will take down as much as $10,000 per month from what looks like an innocuous player's good luck.


It also explains why I use 12 different sets of 18 to 20 numbers. Someone might say why use 20 numbers. When you play the reds you are betting that the 18 red numbers will win against the 20 remaining numbers, 19 in Europe. So like it or not, 19 or 20 numbers is part of the action. I just include it on the inside table layout sets. An example would be noticing if the greens are hot, use the inside sets. If the greens are cold use all 12 sets. I never assume that a condition will be dominant before finding out for myself what is really happening. I always wait to see what the real conditions are and then adjust to take advantage of it. I know that I'm reacting to past spin results. It works sometimes. Sometimes it does not. I have a plan for each condition. Sometimes you can't see anything. That is what you are saying above. I know. It's just a condition that will change. It's like flying on instruments through a mountain range, trusting your altitude and location to the instruments. You must have the patience to see it through. The clear air will appear ahead. And yes, that is very challenging.


The skill is in recognition to any condition and having the experience to know what is typical. Those are acquired values. It's like telling someone something but not being able to understand it for them. Knowing that a condition of opportunity will come and that I will reach my very easy to achieve quit point is far different than waiting for a massive win streak that makes descending deep worth it. It's two different challenges. It may sound corny or simplistic. But it just happens to work for me. I know that stop points have been discussed for decades on these gambling forums.  They were not much in my game at all. Now they are. People change.

[alrelax]

Sometimes lots of things work really well, and then sometimes they don't. The opposite is also true.

Gizmotron seems to focus and engage his free spirited play on this premise. I really don't see why that's so hard for people to accept.

Whoever else has an interest in playing the game this way might very well pay for some form of tuition to do so.

I'm fine with that, why aren't you?

Gizmo, when you opened your school, how much money in total did you earn from your students?

Let me put forward some perspective before you answer. A little while back I bought ten toy marbles form an auction house for $40. That's right, ten. I sold those ten toy marbles on ebay for $12,000.

What's my point? Give me a break, who should really care if some of us guys make a bit of dough from our expertise, whatever that may be?

Somebody, quite a few somebodies really wanted my marbles, so they paid the price.

Absolutely spot-on, IMO.  Thanks for the great comment!  Seriously, Glen.

[Gizmotron]

I agree, just go with your intuition. Some days you're just playing worse, and sticking to a system won't fix that.

Now you are using your noggin.   You could actually keep track of your wins and losses in a chart too. My wwwLLwwL lists make it easy to see the results. So I prefer to call it analysis. I'd use my intuition for one thing though. Is the over all condition that the session is easy or difficult? In other words am I just battling to break even and even that is hard? A session can just be hard. It must be a condition that can be expected to happen. My plan is to take a break if that happens.

[Gizmotron]

Absolutely spot-on, IMO.  Thanks for the great comment!  Seriously, Glen.

I knew that you would like it. It happens to be close to the way that you play. There are those of us that play with a kind of agility to what they are seeing. You have been writing about that for the past year or so. There was a guy years ago names Spike. He plays that way. It might not be provable by a math algorithm but it works for me just the same.

[Gizmotron]

Sometimes lots of things work really well, and then sometimes they don't. The opposite is also true.

Gizmotron seems to focus and engage his free spirited play on this premise. I really don't see why that's so hard for people to accept.

Whoever else has an interest in playing the game this way might very well pay for some form of tuition to do so.

I'm fine with that, why aren't you?

Gizmo, when you opened your school, how much money in total did you earn from your students?

Let me put forward some perspective before you answer. A little while back I bought ten toy marbles form an auction house for $40. That's right, ten. I sold those ten toy marbles on ebay for $12,000.

What's my point? Give me a break, who should really care if some of us guys make a bit of dough from our expertise, whatever that may be?

Somebody, quite a few somebodies really wanted my marbles, so they paid the price.

I opened the school to have an experience where complaining about the math / edge was set aside. We just discussed trends, perception, change, and also got caught up in the TurboGenius' progression. I spent allot of time on proving that the global effect really exists. I charged because I finally went ahead and built the AI charting program that made bet selections on changes that the software perceived were advantages. I gave that software to each student. I made about $800 from six months work. But what I really got was a civil discussion from a little more than 20 people that asked questions and got answers. It was fun too. I'm pretty much open about it now. I know that making movements, like swing trading, is not easy. If it were there would not be a stock market. I honestly don't know if anyone learned anything. People have kept in touch with me through email. I answer their questions. I've done this twice in the past ten years. There is no need to do it again. I tried to share my experience in perceiving opportunities that come along. This was all done when my attitude to hit the big win streak was my goal. Things have changed since then. I've openly shared those changes.

[Blue_Angel]

Sometimes lots of things work really well, and then sometimes they don't. The opposite is also true.

It's like you are saying: "sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are unlucky..." Do you really believe there is something skillful or intelligent in this?!

Gizmotron seems to focus and engage his free spirited play on this premise. I really don't see why that's so hard for people to accept.

Really??
You must be working us!

Whoever else has an interest in playing the game this way might very well pay for some form of tuition to do so.

To pay in order to see how one could be lucky?!
I've yet to see skills which are enabling luck when you need it, but I've heard about horse-shoe, rabbit foot and bat's bone as lucky charms, you might even combine them all together for even greater results.
On another forum there was someone who was claiming that he was a teacher of Martingale progression...go figure!



I'm fine with that, why aren't you?


Because I'm not you.

Gizmo, when you opened your school, how much money in total did you earn from your students?

Let me put forward some perspective before you answer. A little while back I bought ten toy marbles form an auction house for $40. That's right, ten. I sold those ten toy marbles on ebay for $12,000.

What's my point? Give me a break, who should really care if some of us guys make a bit of dough from our expertise, whatever that may be?


I agree with this point but some people are feeling like teenagers who are so excited, like after their first sexual experience and want to let us all know about their "achievements".
So instead of learning something useful we listen to useless info like: "I went there, ate that, bought this, won this amount...etc"
There are all kind of strokes for all kind of folks...

Somebody, quite a few somebodies really wanted my marbles, so they paid the price.

[Gizmotron]

Blue "It's like you are saying: "sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are unlucky..." Do you really believe there is something skillful or intelligent in this?!"


   I do. You can label it any way you want in order to attempt to marginalize it. I really believe that anyone can acquire the skill irregardless of their intelligence. It's not just luck. It takes self awareness skills too. A person must control their emotions and their natural tendencies with respect to human nature. You act like seeing upticks in a candlestick chart is some kind of brainless activity. You imply that there can't be a skill and that there can't be any intellect involved.


So ask yourself this. Why would anyone gamble without skill or intellect? You are a needy personality. You need to confine me to unskilled and ignorant in order to please your own human nature. What's up with that? You act like one of those smart people that run around saying "even a blind squirrel gets lucky once in a while and finds a nut."


One brainless example is all that is needed. What do you, a skillful and intelligent player, do with a same dozen sleeping for 30 consecutive spins in a row? Are you a lucky squirrel? I'll tell you what you do. You try to figure out dealer signature or wheel bias with some kind of claim of physics as your validation for reason. You claim because you have a tangible advantage, "an edge," that people that depend on luck are unintelligent. That is your entire contribution to gambling forums. It just does not add up. You have settled for second best.


"And did you exchange
A walk on part in a war
For a lead role in a cage?" - Pink Floyd

[Xander]

Sorry, but that's just gambler's fallacy nonsense. 

1. You're throwing logic and common sense out the window.
2. You don't have a shred of evidence/math to support your absurd claims.
3. All of the experts, mathematicians, and history say that you're wrong.
4. Since the available number of pockets on the wheel determines the probability of winning, and since the same number pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then the probability of winning doesn't change just because of you're observations over the last 10 or 20 spins.  Claiming otherwise is ludicrous.

[Gizmotron]

Sorry, but that's just gambler's fallacy nonsense. 

1. You're throwing logic and common sense out the window.
2. You don't have a shred of evidence/math to support your absurd claims.
3. All of the experts, mathematicians, and history say that you're wrong.
4. Since the available number of pockets on the wheel determines the probability of winning, and since the same number pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then the probability of winning doesn't change just because of you're observations over the last 10 or 20 spins.  Claiming otherwise is ludicrous.

Answers:
1.) Let's see if that is true?
2.) There's no evidence that they are absurd. Please show that.
3.) I'm an expert and part of history. You guys all have a turd in your pockets, "we."
4.) You don't need probability to be in your favor in order to win consistently. That is the flaw in your so called superiority. Where is the math that proves that you need probability on your side in order to claim a winning strategy? This single question sums up all the years of your prestigious claims. You, "we with a turd," need to come up with something better than a self serving dogmatic posturing. I have the logic that undoes all your lame arguments. Prove that probability has to be in your favor in order to win. Prove it. Go ahead we. And don't we we your pants.