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[TwoCatSam]

2CatSam from the comments and questions you are making here it is obvious that you haven t read a single page of Win3mill...so you shouldn t even participate in this topic.
If you will ever take the time and the parience to read them(I doubt) then we can speak again.


Sorry about me.  I'll take your advice and butt out.  We don't need to speak again.

Sam

[Mike]

It s funny asking me for proofs because I m not here to sell anything.

Maybe not, but you are dropping hints. Why? and isn't there a rule about that in this forum? there is at vlsroulette.com.

[Sputnik]

Mike, there is so many wannabes and pros in one place, so you never know who lies.
Based upon my many year of experience so have i spot many lier's at this forum as with others.
My opinion.

[Drazen]

(Ringing a bell?)

Only bell that rings in this game is the bell curve... There is no any mystery, tips and tricks or woodo you are trying to plant here...

Every bet selection has its own bell curve, so  no one is better than any other concerning that...

It is all matter of overcoming very high variance with some progression(s) in the end. Lowering  the variance is very challenging task to do, but if you don't find a way how to do it, you can overcome it with very monstrous bank and clever MM like Mr. Flatino is doing for example, but of course it would bring certain doze of stress. (would you believe? )

Drazen

[Graildigger]

You are the man Razor! Thanks for help and understanding!


Ok, i have some ideas. I think playing 2 dozens until a loss or X number of spins (on Xth spin usually comes the change) is part of the bet. Other part is probably to soak part of losses if change comes earlier. So combo could be 2 dozens + 2 EC or maybe 2 DOZ + 1 COL + 1 EC. 

[Razor]

You are the man Razor! Thanks for help and understanding!


So combo could be 2 dozens + 2 EC or maybe 2 DOZ + 1 COL + 1 EC.

You are correct.
But without the formula , this betting sheme means nothing at all.

[6th-sense]

ok again razor could you give a spin sample with the end profit target?

[Mike]

Thanks for the nice Pms that you sent me people but I will not answer to any of them.

And we're supposed to take your word on that?


I assume that this forum is owned by Steve H. because his ad is here. There is a rule in the other forums that no member is allowed to post hints and clues to any supposed 'holy grail', because of the possibility that said member is scamming via private messages. It works like this:


The member posts that he has the holy grail, or hints strongly that he has it, and also gives clues. Inevitably, other members will pm him asking for further details, at which point our scammer asks for money...


Nathan, you are correct. There is no way to make long-term profits from casino games (apart from certain methods of advantage play which are becoming increasingly difficult to use effectively). Anyone who suggests otherwise is either a scammer or ignorant of the math and how it works. But it seems that even the moderators here are unwittingly giving credence to the possibility that a 'holy grail' is possible, as evidenced by the comment addressed to Sputnik in a previous post on this thread:

Steady on... That last sentence is unacceptable. You don't KNOW that for certain. To say otherwise is pure arrogance. Just because you might not be able to do something does not mean that others can't !!

This is like saying that you don't KNOW that 2 + 2 = 4. Maybe, with a lot of hard work and experience, you could make 2 + 2 = 5!
Or perhaps, a one-off payment of $29.95 to some internet vendor will do the trick!


Bottom line: it's impossible to multiply a negative number by a positive number and end up with a positive, which is what every system tries to do. That's not being 'negative', it's a simple mathematical truth.


To suggest otherwise panders to gullibility, desperation, and ignorance.


[Edit:  Mike -- Go and read through XXVV's section and then you'll better understand why Sputnik was pulled up for his sweeping statement about flat betting (and the comment was nothing to do with grails, by the way).   Furthermore, the forum is NOT owned by SH.  As a newcomer you seem very eager to post criticisms (and assumptions) rather than carefully feel your way, which is what most newcomers do.  Moderator]

[Tomla]

As far as I know , your assumption is wrong on Steve--so know what Mike?

[Carlitos]

This forum is owned by Victor.




Yah, an spin example would be nice Razor.........








Carlitos 

[Tomla]

vls is the one that was stabbed by steve--so your safe

[sqzbox]

To all the people who have posted in this thread advising us that there is no way it can be done, and so on, yada yada yada - I'd like to say thanks very much, you may now leave and feel very satisfied with yourselves that you have saved us so much time and effort and protected us from a fruitless search. Your job is done!

Great!  Now that they are gone - how about the rest of us who quite enjoy the search and are happy to waste our time on it get down to some specifics and leave opinions out of it.

I am sure I read in one of Shikamaru's posts that the movement he was looking at was specifically in the columns.  May be wrong - but anyway that is what I have done, although I have looked at the dozens as well.  Can't see anything.  I've produced a list of spin-by-spin results on columns and dozens for a series of 100 spin samples. It all looks pretty much as expected to me.  The data also shows the movement from the last spin to the new one for each spin with a summary of the movements at the bottom.  It all fits to the expected distribution.  I don't see anything that I could consider "less than expected".

Has anybody else done anything similar? Or looked at it in a different way to what I have done?  Be specific - what exactly have you examined?

[Francis]

Dozens or columns, they are no different in terms of the movements. It will be easier to find a winning bet if we accept the fact that roulette is truly random.

Don't count on statistics (probability & expected value) to beat this game. This is where everybody fails.

Good luck.

[Mike]

[Edit:  Mike -- Go and read through XXVV's section and then you'll better understand why Sputnik was pulled up for his sweeping statement about flat betting (and the comment was nothing to do with grails, by the way).   Furthermore, the forum is NOT owned by SH.  As a newcomer you seem very eager to post criticisms (and assumptions) rather than carefully feel your way, which is what most newcomers do.  Moderator]


I'm not aware that I've posted any criticisms or assumptions. The assertion that roulette cannot be beaten by using patterns and progressions is neither - it's a FACT. As to Sputnik's comment about everyone being a liar if they claim to win flat-betting, that's not quite true. It could be that they're lying OR just haven't tested their system over enough spins.


There's an overwhelming pattern in all these roulette (and casino game) forums. It goes like this:


1. create a system which seems to win.
2. test the system and ask others on the forum to help test it.
3. test it some more.
4. discover that it doesn't win, after all.
5. goto step 1.


And I'm afraid trying to reduce the variance won't help. It's an attractive idea: if you can't reduce the house advantage then try to stop the long losing runs; makes sense, right?


Unfortunately it can't be done, because the variance is inextricably linked to the house advantage. They follow each other, so you can only reduce one by reducing the other (which is impossible because the house advantage is mathematically fixed).


The formula is this:


Fixed odds + negative expectation = long term losses


I've had a look at XXVV's posts and I see nothing there but long-winded waffle, I'm afraid. It's that kind of thing which can seduce the newbies into a long search which WILL ultimately result in disappointment.


However, I'm not naive; I know that there are vested interests here. There's money to be made exploiting people's ignorance and gullibility!


Steve H. may not own the forum but he certainly has a stake in it, otherwise why the ad? I only brought him up because in the other roulette forums he owns there is a rule that a member should not post 'hints' and clues. If someone has (or thinks they have) a winning system then they should just post it in its entirety. What's the purpose of dangling a carrot? is it just a way of getting attention or trying to control other members? Better to have a dedicated section for system sellers like at vlsroulette, then at least the process is transparent and the seller can be asked to demonstrate that the system works as claimed.


Folks, I'm not here to merely be negative. All I'm saying is: stay away from negative expectation games. There are plenty of other avenues of real speculation (playing roulette, baccarat, craps etc isn't speculation, it's pure gambling) where you can find a real edge.


On the other hand, if you're a gambler, knock yourself out. Just don't kid yourself that you can make long term profits.

[6th-sense]

i didn,t realize we were testing any system razor has given?...he hasn,t given one...only an idea one exsist.....plus its our own time and effort given by some of us who likes a challenge..even if it does not exist you learn a lot just by looking...you should try it..after all why are you here?


Has anybody else done anything similar? Or looked at it in a different way to what I have done?  Be specific - what exactly have you examined?

yes some of us are...i,m positive its the group numbers..your looking at it with the same eyes all the time...you need a different perspective...what could the three movements be...could it be 3 separate group numbers ie red odd black odd..red even as an example..what do the actual dozens or dozens and column chase if not the 4 number groups...the formula is based on this i,m sure...there are only so many combinations with 3 individual number groups you can make...now what happens most with these combo groups on the 4th spin?.....that is the key t o the formula...razor looks like he,s giving no more help...so what combination with a doz col...and 2 other bets do you use? to capture or trap what is going to happen on the 4th spin...

remember razor said it can be seen in rx...and gave this as an example...