Shoe 3 was a good one for throwing up a few different things to point out.

The Win Loss groups on the right hand side were mostly throwing up Losses early on. There were enough to make a few units.

Another thing to note about these four groups. I will write them out in order as they appeared.

4
1
2 (so the missing one is 3)
3 (the 3 appears. Now the furthest back one is 4)
2
4 (the 4 appears. Now the furthest back one is 1)
1 (the 1 appears. Now the furthest back one is 3)
3 (the 3 appears. Now the furthest back one is 2)

The furthest back one can appear in clusters like above. You can play for these furthest back groups to appear using a parlay. If you play for the 1, bet for WW to appear. If you play for the 3, bet for LL to appear etc.

Other notable streaks in this shoe were the missing BP early and towards the end.

Also the WW and LL were missing towards the end for a time leaving either WL or LW to appear. This accounts for the five consecutive *2* and *4* groups towards the end.

Certainly not an easy shoe to read and the most difficult of the three so far. However it would have been a profitable one.

Here is Shoe 2 finished.

There was another WL and LW to add to the 2's and 4's making a run of seven.

I will give this another shot at the Baccarat table tomorrow and see how things pan out.

Rich, I would have made between 8-10 units if I was flat betting that shoe.

It was a fairly predictable shoe using my strategy. I am a firm believer nowadays that less is more when it comes to gambling. That would have been a nice shoe just to sit back and recharge the batteries.

Shoe 2 was much more complex in comparison. I am just finishing that one now.

The Wins and Losses were all over the place, however because of the information at my disposal, it was not insurmountable.

Have a look at the Win Loss groups so far..

2 3 2 1 4 4 2 2 4....so mostly 2's and 4's which are represented by either WL or LW. You can see the LL on the right hand side has been missing seven times in a row up till now. So one thing you know with 2's and 4's is that the second result of the pair will be the opposite of the first.
So if the first result is a Win, the second result is a Loss. Alternatively if the first result is a loss, the second result is a win. The last 5 pairs have played out like this.

One other notable trend which is also sticking out is the PP went missing for 17 pairs. So the first or second result of a pair has to be a B.

So even though Shoe 2 was more complex than Shoe 1, it was certainly ripe for the picking.

You need options when dealing with randomness and plenty of them. These concepts allow you to have a very broad perspective of what's going on.

I am in the process of testing this against the Wiz's Baccarat shoes (6 decks).

I will upload each file as I complete a shoe.

The first shoe was a breeze with a Loss appearing on the first result of a pair six times.

Then it did a u-turn producing six Wins on the first result of the next six pairs.

Hello Rich,

BB    BP    PP    PB   
1,     1,     X,     1,
2 p2 X,     1,     2 p2
X,     1,     2 b1 3 b1

Your pairs were..

PP
BP
BB

The second rows indicates a bet on Player on the second result of the next pair. However I think it's wise to always see if the first bet is a Win or Loss. No point betting for Wins and getting a streak of losses.

This particular bet did indeed lose because the second result of the next pair was a B (Banker).

So although the next bet is pointing at a bet on Banker on the first result of the next pair, I would be inclined to go against that and look for another Loss which means I would bet Player on the first result of the next pair.

Today was a good day for me betting against Wins. They were a lot of Loss sequences and I captured a lot of them.

Hello sqzbox, it maybe looks complicated with the Win Loss tracker thrown in, but in all honesty, I think it makes it a better strategy to play.

Here is one of my cards from my casino trip today. It all fits neatly on one page and I could manage to track everything without any mistakes. The spins were roughly every 60 seconds which I agree is not quick, but not too slow either.

Playing this way means I don't need to play all three even chances. They are all independent from each other anyhow and playing that way X 3 just makes for more work IMO. I feel it's better to beef up just one EC with the Win Loss tracker as well. That also brings back Baccarat into the equation.

I made a nice few units playing this today. It will take hours of practice and play to get better at reading all the signals for sure. But I really do feel this is something that will give me a good fighting chance of winning playing the EC's.

Thank you esoito.

I have some time before I dash out to try and explain a bit about the Win Loss concept that I attatched above.

It is a little bit of a mirror image of what you see on the left hand side. One difference however is that you have to wait for two pairs to come out before you can record anything.

The Win Loss pairs are..

WW=1
WL=2
LL=3
LW=4

The first two results on the left hand side are a Loss and a Win (LW). So I put an X on the right hand side under the LW and a 1,1,1 under the 1, 2 and 3. So it's really just the same idea as you see on the left.

Looking at line 7. You can see that the WL and LL have both missed for three times each. If they continue to miss, I will have to put an X in either the WW or LW. So the dominant factor here is the second W. This means I will bet for the second pair on the left to be a Win.

Things ran well here for a few pairs because it was suggesting the second W and also B2 using the left hand concept. I picked this file out because it is pretty straightforward to follow. Things can get a lot more compex when figuring out the bets.

I will attatch another file below with another example for anybody who is trying to get their head around it. What it all boils down to is having the awareness to spot what is working the best between the left hand and right side. In the file I am attatching in this post, the LL is the missing pair towards the end on the right hand side. So this leaves me with WW, WL or LW. So that means at least one Win from the first or second pair on the left hand side. Those last few results on the left were Win, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Loss.

Probably the best thing I like about the whole idea is how it seems to throw wins up in clusters. This is important especially if you are using type of MM scheme because as we all know, you need those cluster of wins when things are getting a bit hairy or the bets just escalate out of control. I am testing this with GLC's 'Mongoose tames Trioplay' and it is working out really well. I just look for what appears to be the strongest triggers and go along with it. If it's all a bit out of kilter and I can't read it, I stop!

Thank you for your reply Chef. I agree about trying to find something with a low variance and then MM does not become so scary.

I was also thinking more about sqzbox's question because my answer was a bit vague.

Quote from: sqzbox on September 18, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
So it now becomes a bit subjective as to which approach to take doesn't it? You can't know ahead of time so half the time your decision will be wrong. A bit of a problem, that. Perhaps Chef might like to weigh in with some advice at this point.

So I created a Win Loss concept to go along with things.

You can see it here in the attatched file. I will come back later and explain how it works properly.

However just as a quick example..you can see the WL and LW are both missing for a while. So this is giving the WW and LL dominance. So ''repeating the last'' is a strong bet. Now looking over to the left at the origial concept, you can see that there is a nice run of wins followed by a run of losses.

More later.

Well if you read this thread which was posted a couple of weeks after the one which Leapyfrog uploaded, it sounds like he was yanking everyone's chain.

http://www.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=389&forum=Baccarat_Message_Board

Quote from: sqzbox on September 18, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
So it now becomes a bit subjective as to which approach to take doesn't it? You can't know ahead of time so half the time your decision will be wrong. A bit of a problem, that. Perhaps Chef might like to weigh in with some advice at this point.

My idea of the most sensible way to approach it would be to look for whatever is happening the most and stick with it. The opposite bet on the Odd Even e.c's in the file above was obviously working best at the time.

The more I think about gambling, the more convinced I am that trying to learn when not to bet is more important than when to place a bet.

I certainly agree that Chef sounded like someone talking from experience with this type of bet and it would be great if he/she could add any more insights.

Thank you sqzbox.

The one thing that this gives us is plenty of options. Randomness takes so many twists and turns.

Just to show the strength of playing the opposites at times, I have attatched another file where I have put all the bets in place and then recorded a win or loss.

The Odd Even chance went L W L L L L L L L L.

The Red Black even chance went W L W L W L L L L W

I like to bet the dominant side when there is just single intervals of W or L.

Of course there are also parlay options should you see X, 1, X, 1, X, X, 1 going down a row or a pair may go on a huge streak of absence and you could oppose it with a 1-2 negative progression picking up a unit for each further time the pair is absent. The only thing about this particular one I don't like is needing to win three bets just to break even. I am not really sure if that's worth the risk.

But like I said, there is certanly plenty to look out for. I hope it is useful for anybody who decides to give it a go.

Thanks.

One final piece of advice.

**see file attatched**

The Odd Even and Low High even chances produced some nice results with a few wins each.

However the Red Black produced three straight losses. I have put the next bets in brackets for the Red Black just to show you.

The advice would be to keep a running Win and Loss record for all three even chances.

If you are getting a string of losses in one of the even chances along the lines of L L W L L W L L etc....

Then the obvious thing to do is just bet the opposite even chance of what you normally would and you will win.

We don't know in advance how things are going to go. It could be a day of the 'opposites' streaking on all three even chances for all we know.

I will try and wrap things up within the next few posts because I think I have a pretty good handle on this now.

The two posts above pretty much sum things up, however there are a few more things I need to explain.

I have worked out that there are six possible bets for each even chance.

The best way for me to explain it will be with an example.

So I will throw out some numbers and show you how things go.

The first two numbers are 8,21.  BR, EO, LH.

RR. 1,
RB. 1,
BB. 1,
BR. X,

OO. 1,
OE. 1,
EE. 1,
EO. X,

LL. 1,
LH. X,
HH. 1,
HL. 1,

I wouldn't be looking for a bet here. I will wait to see what becomes dominant.

The next two numbers are 9,4.  RB, OE, LL.

RR. 2,
RB. 1,X,
BB. 2,
BR. X,1,

OO. 2,
OE. 1,X,
EE. 2,
EO. X,1,

LL. 1,X,
LH. X,1,
HH. 2,
HL. 2,

So there are a few opportunities here.

First of all with the Red Black ec's. RR and BB have not appeared for two pairs.
If they continue to be missing, I will get either a RB or BR. Now there is no common denominator here. So what I would need to do is to wait and see what the first result of the pair is. If it's an R, I will bet B next. If it's a B, I will bet R next.

The Odd Even ec's present the same type of bet as the Red Blacks.
OO and EE have not appeared for two pairs. If they continue to be missing, I will get either a OE or EO. Once again, there is no common denominator here and I would need to see what the first result of the pair is. If it's an O, I will bet E next. If it's an E, I will bet O next.

The Low High ec's are a bit more straightforward.
HH and HL have not appeared for two pairs. If they continue to be missing, I will get either a LL or LH. The common denominator here is the first L and that would be the bet.

One other tricky bet until you get the hang of it is the following.

Suppose the two missing pairs in the Red Black are RB and BR. If they continue to be missing, I will get either RR or BB. Once again, there is no common denominator here. This time however, you would wait and see what the first result was and then bet the same again to repeat. So if R, bet R. If B, bet B.

Now I will list all six bets for the even chances and they are all interchangeable.

RR, OO, LL =1.
RB, OE, LH = 2.
BB, EE, HH = 3.
BR, EO, HL = 4.

If 1/2 absent. Bet B1, E1 or H1. (1 means the first result of the pair)
If 1/3 absent. Bet the opposite of the first result on the second result of the pair.
If 1/4 absent. Bet B2, E2 or H2. (2 means the second result of the pair)
If 2/3 absent. Bet R2, O2 or L2.
If 2/4 absent. Bet the same as the first result on the second result of the pair.
If 3/4 absent. Bet R1, O1 or L1.

So I am going to throw out a few spins and show you how I would track this spin by spin.

First number is 35. Second number is 7. That's BR, OO, HL.

RR. 1,
RB. 1,
BB. 1,
BR. X,

OO. X,
OE. 1,
EE. 1,
EO. 1,

LL. 1,
LH. 1,
HH. 1,
HL. X,

Of course the X = a hit and the 1 represents that this particular pair did not show.

The next two numbers are 27 and 33. RB, OO, HH.

RR. 2,
RB. 1,X,
BB. 2,
BR. X,1,

OO. X,X,
OE. 2,
EE. 2,
EO. 2,

LL. 2,
LH. 2,
HH. 1,X,
HL. X,1,

So you can see above that LL and LH have not appeared for two pairs.

If this continues, it means I will get either HH or HL appearing. The common denominator in that is the first H.

The next two numbers out are 31 and 2. BB, OE, H,L.

RR. 3,
RB. 1,X,1,
BB. 2,X,
BR. X,2,

OO. X,X,1,
OE. 2,X,
EE. 3,
EO. 3,

LL. 3,
LH. 3,
HH. 1,X,1,
HL. X,1,X,

Now the LL and LH have not appeared for three pairs and I would have won betting the first H in that pair.

Other opportunities are in the Odd Even e.c's.

EE and EO has not appeared for three pairs. If this continues, it will be either OO or OE as the next pair. The common denominator is the O as the first result of the pair and that would be the bet.

What about the Red Black e.c's.

RR and BR has not appeared for three and two pairs respectively.

If this continues, it will be either RB or BB as the next pair. The common denominator is the B as the second result of the pair and that would be the bet.

So it's not too difficult tracking all three even chances and working out these bets.

I was doing some more testing and thinking about this.  To be honest, I don't think it's going to stand up betting on two results in each pair.

The better option IMO is looking for the most dominant even chance on either the first or second result of the pair and going for that.

If Red Red is not showing, I am going to be looking at Black Black because I know a Black is going to show as the first or second result as long as the Red Red continues to be absent.

Now that's all well and good, however when it starts producing runs like these..

Red Black
Red Black
Red Black

The first bet just becomes a wasted bet.

The file I attatched in reply 12 is the best way to track for what I am talking about because you can then see in an instant which of two pairs in an even chance are not showing.

Looking at that file and the Red Red, Red Black, Black Black, Black Red.

RR= 2,X,X,3.
RB= X,5,X.
BB= 4,X,X,1.
BR= 1,X,5.

So it's easy to see straight away that the RR and BR are the two pairs which are most recently absent. This means that I am either going to get RB or BB as the result. The common denominator there is the B as the second result. So I would just play for the second B.

This would certainly make it much easier to track and play.

Just having another quick look back at that file in reply 12 and the Odd and Even pairs were a good opportunity as well.

OO= 4,X,1,X.
OE= X,6.
EE= 1,X,5.
EO= 2,X,X,1,X,1.

The Odd Even and the Even Even are the two pairs here which are most recently absent. So I am either going to get Odd Odd or Even Odd showing. The common denominator there is the Odd as the second result. So I would just play for the second Odd.

Following this way on the three even chances will throw up plenty of bets.