Nor will you find it for 50 euros a month at that other site, Sputnik. 

Look, you've been around these forums long enough to know what's important, so stop trying to procure what simply cannot be bought.

You can beat this game only with the tools that come from within.....patience, discipline, and strict parameters (read: goals). 

Read through this forum and you'll find enough information, assuming you know what to look for, to prepare yourself for the most difficult challenges that the casino throws at us.  Once you've got those challenges neutralized, the winning, over the long term, becomes almost habitual.

As always, I wish all the very best for you.

Fellas, I'd suggest that you tread lightly when it concerns on-line betting.

In fact, you guys should have a look at the "forum.beathecasino" site and, in particular, the "look at this" thread in their public baccarat forum.  It sites an apparent cheating revelation at the very site that you guys are referencing in this thread.

Again, I'd think twice before committing any real dollars to rather phony on-line betting services.  'nuff said 'bout that....

Quote from: tdx on September 26, 2016, 02:27:01 AM
I'm not sure you can use a shoe from the Resorts casino in Queens NY as a "real" shoe....because if it is computer controlled ( which I think it is ), then the players and bankers result is determined by how much money is bet on the player and banker.........not from an honest bac game dealt from a real shoe by a real dealer .

I've talked to people who have played there and will not play there again.

You're a wise man, TDX. 

I steer clear of any such malarkey as "computer controlled" games; their results can be (and are) manipulated.  I won't even play at the new "stadium-style" Bac game at Mohegan, because they are using an "electronic" (translation: "computerized") shoe that, too, can manipulate the results as they please.

And don't be fooled by their marquees showing the long runs or the "obvious" trends....they only produce those when no one is betting much money and/or to entice more action.  Stay away.....

Quote from: Albalaha on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
If discipline makes a winner, a tracker, bot or tester is the most disciplined player.

This is simply not so, for there exists no "tracker, bot, or tester" that can play this game as subjectively as I.

I've said it a thousand times, but it bears repeating here:  I've learned to take over control that which I CAN control and, believe me, there is no way that can be done, nor replicated, in any "mechanical" manner.

Quote from: GoldenDragon on September 01, 2016, 05:25:42 PM
Thank you for a very informative and truth to earth experiences.  I can not comment any more of your post.  It's true that there is no system to beat the casino, especially baccarat.  The only thing is DISCIPLINE.  It happens to me thousand times but I still haven't learned to stop when losing.  I have been on  winning for a week, but last night, yes last night, I gave it all back even though I did realize I'm on the losing day.  I can not just call it a day but go back to get more money.  I feel (just like the other thousand times) ashamed and unintelligent.  Right now, I'm down financially and mentally.  I have only 800 left.  Stupid me.   Discipline is the only thing to survive.

Hello, GoldenDragon, and welcome to the forum.

Yours is a rather familiar refrain, and you should know that the problem is not limited to you, nor any single player.  We ALL suffer discipline lapses from time to time, so don't beat yourself up too much about it.

That said, I feel compelled to offer you some serious advice:

You might want to consider quitting gambling altogether.  And I say that only with your best interests at heart.  You see, my friend, not everyone is cut out for this game.  And those that cannot control their emotions in the heat of battle at the tables certainly, IMHO, fall into that category.

Never forget this: 

Writing about discipline is the easy part.  All one needs to be able to do is to spell it correctly.  Words come relatively easily...

BUUTTT, to empower those words and ACTUALLY INCORPORATE their usage into one's game AT ALL TIMES...that, my friend, is the hard part.

And I've found, after all these years spent at the Baccarat tables, that the MAJORITY of players wouldn't know discipline from a hole in the wall.  They are there, after all is said and done, to gamble.  They're there for the rush of it all.  I could write a book all about discipline, and they'd be interested only in finding some pictures to look at.

IF, my friend, that lacking, non-serious player is YOU, again, I humbly suggest that you find a more suitable hobby for yourself.  More suitable and a heck-of-a-lot LESS COSTLY.

Take care, and be well.

Those thoughts are worth a heck-of-alot more than "half a cent", Beat-The-Wheel.

Anyone referencing a bet selection's "variance", "drawdowns", and "line waves" is a heck-of-alot more than "half-way" to creating their own superior bet selection process combined with a correlated money management plan.

Quote from: james on July 30, 2016, 06:35:19 PM
If no bet selection produces an edge, can progressions give an edge mathematically?

This is a most difficult question, James, with no real definitive answer.  Pardon my indulgence as I offer you mine:

The "mathites" will respond in the negative, claiming that since we're facing the negative house edge at each and every wager there exists no betting methodology (read: progression) that will effectively overcome it.

I must say that if, in fact, I concurred with that theory I would simply cease playing the game.

I am of the belief that progressions do alter our odds at this game.  But, that said, let me be very clear:  Not all progressions are created equally.

You see, linear progressions, to me, are a "no-no".  Linear progressions are how the majority are constructed; straight progressions followed strictly and based upon the very last betting outcome.  These are proven as losing propositions, usually because one unlikely but inevitable run of consecutive and/or clustered losses will eradicate any prior profits and, eventually, entire bankrolls.

BUUUTTT, subjective bet maneuvering (yes, you can label it a progression of sorts), based upon certain parameters and proven statistics of your bet selection's process(es), with the absolute necessity of "virtual bet" (read: "no-bet") inclusion, is an entirely different matter altogether.

To that savvy/astute player, it is quite possible (actually likely, in fact) that they will succeed in collecting on those slightly raised bets as they are implemented into their procedural betting plan.  And collecting on those slightly raised bets can effectively eradicate most prior losses; quite the opposite of those linear progressions that eventually only serve to eradicate prior wins.

But all of that takes alot of work to amass the necessary stats and a whole lotta patience and discipline to implement the end game.  Unfortunately, most visitors and yes, even most members of these sites seek a much easier solution to this most difficult casino game; alas, none exists.  You can only get out of this game what you're willing to put in; frankly, it works that way in life, as well.

I wish you all the very best of it.  Take care and stay well.

Ahhh, Beat-The-Wheel, NOW you're talking about the only true winning formula: VARIANCE. 

Yes, a stable bet selection process ALONG WITH these stats:

Average strike rate

Longest winning streak
Longest losing streak

Average winning streak
Average losing streak

And, last but certainly not least, the average "footprint" (read: w/l "patterns") of your bet selection process.

Armed with these stats, a bet selection process even as simple as this VDW could appear to you as GOLDEN.

Thank you for sharing the insight, Beat-The-Wheel.  Take care and stay well.

Quote from: Nickmsi on July 28, 2016, 10:45:13 AM
We now did over 261,000 spins and 82,000 placed bets and as you can see the Z-score doubled to a a whopping 5.

Both of these were flat bets and both had Stop Loss of (-2).

Cheers
Nick

Remarkable!  Great job, Nicksmi.

Moreover, the best statistic I see from your posted graphs is the fact that the strike rate actually CLIMBED from 50.6% at the 55K bet mark to 50.8% at the 82K bet mark. Very impressive, my friend; I dare say the best I've seen from a "mechanical" method.

Keep up the great work, Nicksmi; you're proving to be quite an asset to this forum.  Take care, and stay well.

Gotta agree with "MarkTeruya"s assessment here, fellas.

This is, after all, very much a "DBL"/"TBL" play when it's working, and, IMHO, there exists better ways for the savvy player to take advantage of same.

I'd prefer to "chart" and/or "measure" exactly how the singles (read: 1's) and the "three-hole" (read: 3's) are performing in each particular shoe (or portion thereof), and then base my betting accordingly.  I much prefer that methodology as opposed to the rather "betting blindly" approach that this "VDW" plan seems to offer.

Look, as MarkTeruya clearly pointed out, the "doubles (read: 2's) appear as its main nemesis.  Now, that said, in and of itself, it is rather important to both know and recognize any method's weaknesses, so you're already better off simply with that knowledge at hand.  However, to me, at least, having the 2's as a nemesis is a rather "iffy" proposition, as I've seen a plethora of shoes where the 2's and/or "doubles" were rather prevalent, and those shoes are going to cause much strain and grief here.

Tread lightly, my friends.

As to my "point of realization":

After playing this game, on a serious basis, for quite some time, I was in the position to ascertain exactly that which was assisting me in my game, as opposed to that which was undermining it.  Thereupon came my "point of realization".  That point in time where I realized that the game was more about "me" than it was about "them".  I cannot control the cards and I cannot control their outcomes, but I can control "me".  And so I quickly learned to take control of that which I am able to control.

You see, Bacchus, there is no magical formula for bet selection, nor is there one for money management.  And the sooner one comes to that realization, the better.  Over the normal course of time, your bets will win and lose, and your money will come and go.  Up and down, down and up, 'round and 'round we go. 

And so we come to strive for some consistency, for some normalcy.  And the savvy, astute player learns that that consistency and that normalcy appears ONLY within the most  Patient and Disciplined of us.  And so we learn that, yes, Discipline is the Holy Grail.

The patient and the disciplined INHERENTLY (read: by their very nature) utilize the very best bet selection processes and the most efficient money-management strategies.  If for no other reason than their P and D.  And this is exactly why the P and the D is so imperative.  (Those that are following this and understand it, "get it"....those that don't, probably never will.)

As to my reaction to "bad days":

"Spit Happens"  I'm not immune, nor are you, nor is anyone.  There are days that what I am doing is simply not working.  All I can do is accept the loss and move on. (read: terminate the session)

Learning to lose is just as important as learning to win.  No one likes it, nor should they; it stings.  But it's all simply a part of the game, and there's nothing we can do about it but accept it.  Why?  Because the alternative is "chasing losses"; and, trust me, "chasing losses" is the biggest contributor to the casino's coffers, bar none.  Don't become victim to it....much better to walk the smaller loss.

That all said, I also happen to play a "variance" game; and so, after a loss (dependent upon how that loss played itself out), I just might adjust my next session's unit sizes upwards a bit, all in the name of efficient recoup and/or profit.  But true "variance" play is Baccarat at it's most advanced....now is not the time for me to delve into that any further.

Suffice to say that bad days come and go, just as the good ones do.  And so we learn to both recognize and accept both.  Just, my friend, keep that Discipline flame afire, and you'll be just fine.  Take care and stay well.

Quote from: Bacchus on July 22, 2016, 01:11:32 PM
Bankroll, money management, bet selection is never successful most of the time for the 99% of players because of the lack of discipline. Sure, I can easily control and stop my session whenever I have reached my profit goal, but how do I control myself while on the losing side or from going overboard and the risk of ruin? Discipline is the Holy Grail.

My "discipline" is my system sort to say as simple as choosing between betting on banker or player side, I don't need any mathematical equation. It is what it is, no system can beat the casino, but one thing I am sure of, a disciplined player can pinch a little share of that very huge pie (casino profits) gradually and steadily all year long or as long as your life or casinos exist.

You should be very proud of yourself, Bacchus.  You took the journey....the very same journey that we've all taken....the winning, the losing, the betting "this" and the betting "that", the futile "money chase"....and you came away from it all relatively unscathed.  In fact, dare I say, you came away from it all BRILLIANTLY.

Now you're simply the "toughest out" the casino will ever face.  You've "got it".  Yes, my friend, as you put it just above, "Discipline IS the Holy Grail".  Learning to control that which you can control.  We, as players, haven't got much more than that as we battle through our sessions; ahh, but the savvy and astute players know that, in the long run, that's pretty much all we'll ever need to succeed.

If you're unaware of my philosophies regarding this game, I am compelled to inform you that I have been espousing the very necessity of Patience and Discipline and Consistency and Conservative win goals/loss limits combined with our Player's Edges (of which "no-betting" is a major part) for years and years on these very forums.  So, with me at least, you're "preaching to the choir".  And I should inform you....it's a darn good choir.  It's a group of players that know exactly what it takes to get the better of this game over the long run; and then, just as importantly, have the tools (yes, the discipline included therein) to put it into action each and every session they play.

I thank you Bacchus for authoring a thread that caught my interest enough to respond; you see, I'm retired now and so I spend alot more time at the casino and alot less time at the keyboard.  That, combined with the fact that there's just not much worth responding to in most of these threads, has me posting less and less.  But, in this case, you inspired me Bacchus, and, again, for that I thank you and wish you continued successes.  Take care and stay well.

Quote from: HunchBacShrimp on June 30, 2016, 01:08:13 AM
It all seems the same to me. It's all about

how you handle your losses.

HBS

Correct.  This game certainly is "all about how you handle your losses". 

Further, it's also about how you limit them, as well.  (Read: "limit" = minimalizing the losing streaks and/or clusters)  My answer to that dilemma?:

"Virtual losses".  I've droned on and on about the inherent advantages, no sense in expounding further herein.  Those that utilize this strategy already are well-aware.....

Quote from: MarkTeruya on June 22, 2016, 10:56:23 AM
Finally, the thing about STATS and Testing, sure no absolute positive expectation should be expected, as the short run doesn't pan out like your long term stats.  However a wise-monkey as opposed to some ancient dinosaur living on tales, memories and limitation of their mental constrains, might place "virtual losses" in front of whatever the bet option may be. 

Pretty simple technique really, if mathematical bet options such as 'Equilibrium v's Imbalanced, Birthday Paradox Pairs' which have a positive expectation over a series of bets (expectation of a single win, not positive for amount of possible bets placed), then again could occasionally lose the entire series, then you simply WAIT for either option to lose first, whilst doing something else.  Yes they could lose again, part and parcel of the game and yes hell may freeze over.  There exists logical ways to approach the game and illogical superstitions based on distant memories an golden monkeys.     

Take heed, my friends, for, in a rather concise couple of paragraphs, this absolutely IS THE KEY to getting the better of this game, at least bet selection-wise, over the long term.  Kudos for sharing your "virtual losses" ideology.

Ballys AC, probably over 20 years ago, a player that I knew came over to me after a typical session and chatted me up for a few minutes, as per usual, but then he asked to borrow $500....against my better judgement, I lent it to him, figuring I knew him well enough to know that he'd be good for it.

Never saw that player again.  Lesson learned.  A $500 mistake.  I've made mistakes that cost me a heck-of-a-lot more than that, so I simply chalk it up as just another one.  But, again, lesson learned:  "Neither a borrower nor a lender be".