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[Turner]

Quad cycle
This has worked well for me in testing, and I currently have turned a free £5-00 no rules bonus on 21Nova into £26 @10p stakes....Comments are most welcome. It doesn't feel complete yet.
Bet selection is in the form of 3 streets to make a quad of the table
4 groups: 1,2,3,4 (1-9     10-18     19-27    28-36)
Playing the groups as 3 Streets 1) 1,2,3     2) 4,5,6    3) 7,8,9   4) 10,11,12
Zero is ignored or treated as a non hit.
Track until  all groups have hit at least once.
We track like this: *=last to hit so all have hit
1-9          111
10-18     11
19-27    1111
28-36    1*
We track until all groups are hit, and when the last group hits (28-36 in this case) we have a choice:
We would like to bet the hottest on hitting of all the 4 groups if we have 8 or 9 or less hits
If we have a qualification of 14, 15 or so, we may of passed the trend, and will use the re-appearing sleeper.
.........................................................
Ex.1)
1-9          1
10-18     11
19-27    1*
28-36    1
Ex.1 This is perfect. A trend in 5 spins. We defiantly bet 10-18 .
..................................................
Ex.2)
1-9          111
10-18     11111
19-27    1111111
28-36    1*
Ex.2) 16 hits to trigger is past any trend. I have been playing the newly hit group (*) as a returning sleeper
..........................................................
Ex.3)
1-9          11
10-18     1*
19-27    11
28-36    1
Ex.3 I don't play as there is no trend in one group over a short run .
......................................................................
Ex.4)
1-9          1*
10-18     1
19-27    1
28-36    1
Retrack
...................................................................
Ex.5)
1-9          11
10-18     11
19-27    1*
28-36    111
Ex.5) play group 4.

Progression....I am weak at.
I am playing 3 hit cycles
EX.6
1-9          11
10-18     1
19-27    111
28-36    1*
Playing group 3 by means of 1u street 9, 1u 8, 1u 7
1-1-1, 1-1-1, 1-1-1.
2-2-2,-2-W
If we are on a new high. Retrack and 1-1-1.
If we are down or even, stay at 2-2-2
To pass 3-3-3 with the same bet has no relevance as the trigger didn't work this time. With the high hit rate, Its best to retrack and start 4-4-4 or quit.
I've been here ten or so times in around 100 sessions.

[Turner]

Thanks Chris,


Ill keep to my cycle labby style (ala Flatino) for a few tests, and see if some of the longer losses cope better by stretching the losses out rather than a neg progression per se. Ill try this later if the hit rate keeps up like it is. Quicker wins with the neg prog though
that's the key I guess, to which progression to use....hitrate.


I've attached a session with explanation

[Atlantis]

Hi Turner,

Thanks for posting this. I will try it.

I have an idea for you - may not amount to much though. what U think??

EX.6
1-9          11
10-18     1
19-27    111
28-36    1*

Could do a sort of mini-parachute type bet on the qualifier: (19-27) in this case

BET1)
=====

Bet 3u on the EC covering the quad (3 streets). In this case will be HIGH

IF WIN then....
a) If win but didn't hit 19-27 (number spuns was 28-36) then bank= +3 rebet Bet 1 @ 2units
b)  If win but didn't hit 19-27 (number spuns was 28-36) then bank= +5 rebet Bet 1 @1u
c)  If win but didn't hit 19-27 (number spuns was 28-36) then bank= +6  goto bet 1

ELSE
a)  If win and number hit was 19-27 then end game at +3
b) If win and number hit was 19-27 then end game at +5
c) If win and number hit was 19-27 then end game +6

IF LOST at any time on EC and numbers still unhit - then move forward to bet 2)

BET2)
====
Bet 1u on each of the 2 LINES that encompass the quad (3 streets). In this case will be Lines 4 and 5: 19-24 and 25-30.

IF WIN but didn't hit quad streets then REPEAT UNTIL LOSS
If WIN but hit the target quad streets then END GAME  (min profit will be +1)

IF LOSE goto BET3)

BET3)
=====
You now continue play as you advised starting with 1-1-1 on the 3 qualifying streets.

A.

[GreatGrampa]

Turner,
Before I add my two cents on the progression, I should really praise you on this novel bet selection, which comprises of
• out of the box thinking to group sets of 3 streets
• practical application to bet wakers or sleepers
• simplicity in tracking

These are key elements of any winning BS framework.

Now have a look at the thread in http://www.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=8713.0. One of the topics that I liked the most in the sister forum. But unfortunately, instead of encouragement and ways of improving his method, Ironsteel was beaten to death and that remained his only topic in the forum. The drawbacks of his method were long tracking cycles and "persisting" progressions. It might be a good read with some suggestions floating there! I still refer him as "one method wonder". I wish he had the same support in line with the current positive atmosphere in this forum.

@Atlantis, am very happy to see increasingly there is a thought process to think outside the traditional way of negative/positive progressions.

@ Turner, if you think my suggestions on progressions are going to make this even better, I will be a very happy person. While providing suggestions for progressions, you have given me an opportunity to share a little more on what I know about progressions. Hope you don't mind me getting a bit wordy.

[GreatGrampa]

Every framework I play, every method I use in the table, I plan for four different types of progressions. I call them as "The Kill", "The edge", "Bread and butter", "The Cocoon". In other words, they are Super aggressive, aggressive, conservative and super conservative plays. I start with conservative method of playing and depending on whether am winning or losing get into aggressive or super conservative plays. When I have reached my target for the session and am on a winning streak, I deploy the super aggressive play.  This is my style of play. But I have seen people being static and going completely aggressive or completely conservative as well. This bet selection is no different and I will try describing my suggestions on progressions for all these styles of play. The progressions cover the best of negative progressions, parachuting and attilla.

[GreatGrampa]

"The bread and butter"
• It starts with 2 units on the EC(High or Low).  On a win, if the win came from the section that I am tracking, the game ends here. If the win came from the section other than the one am tracking, I do the EC bet again. This process repeats.
• On a loss, I bet on the dozen where the section I am tracking falls in with 2 units. If the section is across two dozen, then I bet 1 unit each on the two lines the section falls under. On a win, same as step 1. If the win came from the section we are tracking, game ends. Win coming from section we are not tracking, we go back to EC bets and continue.
• On a loss, I split the section that I am tracking into 1 street and 1 line. I try to select the street such that it covers the last number that came in that section if possible. 1u on street and 1u on line. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, I go Attila. Every loss increase 1u on street and line alternately. Your first increase will be on line and the second increase will be on the street. This process goes on until you give up 

Attaching your excel amended with the bread and butter progression. The key behind any working progression is how to improve your return on investment. As you are able to see from the excel, we have improved the return on investment from a little under 60% (+54u from 92u outlay) to over 75% (+38u from 50u outlay) by following this progression for this bet selection. When I find more time, I shall post the other progression suggestions.

[GreatGrampa]

"The Cocoon"
The cocoon as described earlier is a super conservative play. Here the target is to slowly and steadily "grind" towards recovery. The focal point here is not return on investment. The focal point here is improving the hit ratio and preserving the bank. You start playing this only if the table is consistently playing against you and you are getting long progressions in the "bread and butter" method. I also resort to this, when I have tasted huge success and have a "feeling" that sooner or later the table is going to turn against me, or to slow things down when am so close to the target for the session.

• It starts with 3 unit on the EC(High or Low).  Win ends game
• On a loss 6units on the EC(H/L). Win ends the game.
• On a loss, form 1line and 1street from the section we are tracking. Try creating the street from the last hit number where possible. 2u on line and 2u on street. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, increase the line on every loss, until the output from line equals the output from street. When the output from line equals the output from street, increase the units on street by 1. This cycle goes on until a win or you give up with a pre-defined stop loss.

Attaching the excel amended with the cocoon. As I already mentioned, the key here is the "grind". The return on your investments will not be that great, but at the same time, will not be poor. For the same number of spins, I got +21u from 39u outlay(a little over 50%). I have gone beyond 129 spins to explain the 3rd stage in progression, as I didn't get it within the first 150 spins. As you can see, the outlay was very low in this eventhough we are throwing huge bets on the ECs. Also, the return normally hovers around 40-50%. That is why this is super conservative and that is why you should use this only in select scenarios.

[GreatGrampa]

"The Edge"
As the name suggests, the key here is to create an edge between you and the casino on your BR, when you are doing well at the table. There is really a very thin line between the "bread and butter" strategy and "The edge" strategy. The risk that you will take in Edge will be a little higher than the "bread and butter", but we will also target a higher ROI. You can also chose Edge as your starting play instead of "bread and butter".

• It starts with 2 units on the EC(High or Low).  On a win, if the win came from the section that I am tracking, the game ends here. If the win came from the section other than the one am tracking, I proceed to the next step.
• On a loss or win coming from section other than the one we are tracking, place 3u on the dozen where the tracking section is. If the section is split across 2 dozens, lets take an example of 3rd section 19-27, we place the bets as follows. 1u on 19-24, 1u on 22-27, 1u on 25-30. Essentially stay in the H/L area, but spread 3u across 3 lines covering the tracking section. On a win, if the win came from the section that you are tracking, game ends here. If the win comes from the section other than the one that you are tracking or on a loss, go to the next step.
• Form 3 playing positions comprising of a street, a split and a quad/corner bet using the 3 streets that we are tracking. Where possible, make sure that the split falls in the last number that we tracked in the section. On a win, end game.
• On every loss from here on, use atila to increase first on quad, the next losing spin on street, the next losing one on split and so on until a hit or a pre-defined stop-loss.

Attaching the excel with the Edge. You will notice that at the end of 129 spins, we are +57u on a 69u outlay (over 80% ROI). The risk is higher in this, not only because the outlay is higher, there is a potential of small negatives coming in the mini games even after its won. But the return is really good, especially when we have repeaters which hit the splits. And in comparison with the return, the risk is low.

[GreatGrampa]

"The Kill"
The key theme behind this approach is maximizing the BR as much as possible with a reasonable ROI, if not as high as the one "The edge" might give. Obviously, this will require a higher outlay and hence it is more appropriate to play once you have exceeded your target by a comfortable margin.

• It starts with 1u on each of the 3 streets that are getting tracked. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, form 1 street and 3 splits. See whether the split can cover the last number appeared in the section. Win ends the game
• On a loss, repeat the bet on splits, but split the street into a straight bet and a split bet. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, 1u individually on all the 9 numbers. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, repeat the bet on all the 9 numbers, but also add an additional bet from step 1 on this progression. So it will be 1u on all the individual numbers and 1u on all the streets. Win ends the game.
• On a loss, repeat 9 individual numbers and step 2. So 1u on all 9 numbers, 1u on one of the streets and 1u on each on the other splits. This goes on until a win or a defined stop loss.

Attaching the excel with the Kill. At the end of 129 spins, we are +92 with a 118u outlay. As you can see the profit is maximum from any of the other strategies, but the risk is also high. Also, the ROI stands at over 75% which is in between "bread and butter" and "the edge"

[GreatGrampa]

So Turner, hopefully I was of some help to you for progressions. Apologies for the lengthy posts. I have tried to be as concise as possible.

Strategies I explained here for progression can be applied for any bet selection method. The key is seeing any timewarp in a session as 4 distinct playing modes and use the progression that best suits the mini-game in progress at that point in time. A summary of those 4 modes are.

"Bread and butter" - Starting/regular playing mode. Objective is to optimize the risk and return and finding a balance between them.

"The Cocoon" - Playing mode when a slow down is required. Slow down could be because you are losing/winning/closer to target.  Objective is to reduce the risk and finding consistent hit ratio.

"The Edge" - Playing mode when on a winning trend. can be used interchangeably with "Bread and butter". Objective is to improve the return on investment % with a slightly higher risk base.

"The kill" - To be used when you have exceed targets. Objective is to maximize the BR using a higher risk and an ROI atleast at the Bread and butter level.

[Atlantis]

 
Hi Turner,
Been a few days..  Any news? How's it goin' with "quad cycle". There's been a lot to digest but with suggested tweaks especially Gramps' clever stuff this is looking a solid keeper.
A.

[Atlantis]

4 quick live games played.
All won.
3 games ended + won at pre-street/line phase.
1 game ended + won on line/street phase at 6th bet.
Played using Grampa's "bread and butter" version.
Very nice.
A.

[Turner]

Atlantis....like all good scientists....i need more testing

...however...GG has said it solid....and works best perhaps with coocoon.

Im not a giddy man...but I trust GGs thumbs up. This is encouraged me
I got to £87 from a free fiver (10 of that is some stupid wagered bonus...so 77). But...the wife wanted things doing...and i some how placed £10 for 10p...and it was RNG...which is against my religion.so ot went a bit tits up.

I've transfered to live table....and haven't lost a session yet. 50p is my 1u. it's a tad slower.

Personally...its the best bet selection i have produced....for sure

[Atlantis]

i some how placed £10 for 10p...and it was RNG...which is against my religion.so ot went a bit tits up.

How weird! I did exact same thing last night too on live autowheel by mistake - and it also lost. (that's a lot of 10p's!!)
Hate that. Will be more careful next time!   
OK. Will use "cocoon" for next shot.

A.

[Turner]

Atlantis....btw....all 70 was a mix of 10p and 50p....and bread and butter....but the last 30 was a slightly unrralistic "The Edge". ....i was lucky to never go past 5 steps in 20 sessions.
I meant the result was unrealistic, not the edge.
B&B or Coocoon....more like £40.