+ Register

[Bally6354]

Creating bets from dozens and columns is one of my favourite ways of playing roulette.

Why do I say that?

Because dozens and columns can sleep. This creates variance. You need variance if you are a flat bettor and hope to profit in a session.

What I am going to show you is something that I can't really say that I have seen anyone else mention on any of the forums.

The first aim is to find out what is the sleeping dozen and column.

I will type out a few examples....

23 2B (So this is pretty self explanatory. 23 belongs to the second dozen and column B)
36 3C (1A) (36 belongs to the third dozen and column C. So the sleeping dozen is the 1 and the sleeping column is the A. Hence the 1A at the end in the brackets)

Another example....

09 1C
06 1C
11 1B
34 3A (2C)

Another....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)

So you get the idea. The sleeping dozen and column could also be referred to as the furthest back dozen and column.

Now what I have found quite often is that one of either the sleeping dozen or column will appear on the next spin.

So taking the most recent example above....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)
19 2A (3B)  (You can see how the sleeping second dozen appeared here)

Let's grab another number....

33 3C
27 3C
10 1A (2B)
19 2A (3B)
30 3C (1B)  (The sleeping third dozen appeared here)

Now here is what I have noticed....

You can see above how the sleeping dozen keeps changing. However the sleeping column keeps sleeping.

So how would you take advantage of this?

Look at the number 10 in the above example. Let's say you want the second dozen to appear and the column B to remain sleeping.

So you would be looking for the second dozen to appear. But it can only appear in either column A or Column C if the B column is to remain sleeping.

So that's going to be either 2A or 2C.

2A is represented by the 13/16 split and the 19/22 split.

2C is represented by the 15/18 split and the 21/24 split.

You can see that the number appearing after the 10 was 19 and this belongs to one of the 4 splits above.

So the new sleeping dozen and column after the 19 came was 3B.

So repeating the process....

I am looking for the column B to remain sleeping. However I am going to bet for the third dozen to appear.

So what I am looking for is either 3A or 3C.

3A is represented by the 25/28 split and the 31/34 split.

3C is represented by the 27/30 split and the 33/36 split.

The next number out was 30 belonging to the 3C.

The new sleeping dozen and column is now 1B.

Like I said, you will find this happens a lot. You do get a change in the sleeping dozen and column. But we also know that dozens and columns can sleep for a long time. So this means that sometimes you are going to get just either the sleeping dozen or column changing continuously leaving the other to sleep. This allows you to play just 4 splits.

One thing I have noticed with dozens and columns is how the variance tends to come and go in waves.

So you will get something like....

28 3A
11 1B (2C)
07 1A (2C)
28 3A (2C)
31 3A (2C)
04 1A (2C)   (So you can see here how the 2C continues to sleep as the missing dozen and column. Obviously you would not bet what I am describing above when you see this happen. Just be patient and wait for one of either the sleeping dozens or columns to start appearing)

Here is an example of that....

09 1C
28 3A (2B)
14 2B (1C)
15 2C (1A)
22 2A (1B)
32 3B (1C)   (You can see here how the sleeping dozen and column keep changing every spin)

It does not matter if it does not change every so often.

You might get something like....

change
change
not change
change
change
change
not change

This is ok just getting the odd intermittent no change. You can work through this.

Where you don't want to betting is....

not change
not change
change
not change
not change
not change
change

Like I said, I have noticed these trends seem to be easier to read and are more pronounced when working with dozens and columns. It is not difficult to get the hang of it.

cheers

[Bally6354]

Here is a nice example to show you regarding the above post.

[attachimg=1]

[Bally6354]

 The first thing to do is find the sleeping dozen and column.

29 = 3B

17 = 2B

27 = 3C  (1A) This is the sleeping dozen + column.

So now I will wait and see what happens...

8 = 1B  (2A)

The dozen changed and the column stayed the same. So I am going to look for the A column to remain sleeping. I am also going to look for that dozen to change again. This can only happen if dozen 2 appears on the next spin. So I am looking for either 2B or 2C.

The 2B and 2C can be covered with 4 chips on the splits 14/17, 20/23 and 15/18, 21/24.

Next number out...

18 2C  (3A) This is the sleeping dozen + column.

That was a win. You can see that column A remained sleeping and the dozen 2 appeared.

Now I am going to bet for column A to remain sleeping and look for the dozen 3 to appear.

My splits this time are 26/29, 32/35 and 27/30, 33/36.

Next number out...

27 3C  (1A)

Another win because column A slept and the dozen 3 appeared.


Here is the full list for the numbers in the picture.

29 (3B)
17 (2B)
27 (3C)  (1A)
08 (1B)  (2A)
18 (2C)  (3A) WON +14.
27 (3C)  (1A) WON +14.
19 (2A)  (1B) LOST -4.
00  LOST -4.
23 (2B)  (1C) WON +14.
26 (3B)  (1C) LOST -4.
33 (3C)  (1A) WON +14.
17 (2B)  (1A) LOST -4.
35 (3B)  (1A) LOST -4.
28 (3A)  (1C) WON +14.
18 (2C)  (1B) WON +14.

You can see how the column A was sleeping to begin with and then it changed to dozen 1.
The other side was changing regularly enough to give 6 wins vs 5 losses for a 64 unit gain.
 

[DennisBelle]

This idea sounded really good so I ran it over about 100 spins in the Zumma roulette tester book but unfortunately I just had to many losses.  I know 100 spins is not enough to make a judgement but it failed pretty badly.  Now I am thinking possibly there is another way to play this idea in reverse.  I will have to give it some thought.
I appreciate the effort that Bally put into this idea.  Thanks for posting it.
Dennis

[NathanDetroit]

Ignore  the  Dpzens   on  the felt . Create  your own 2 dozens  Not so difficult at all.


For recreational purposes only. Play at your  own  risk.

[DennisBelle]

ND,
  Would that make any difference in the win/loss ratio and if so, why?
Dennis

[greenguy]

ND,
  Would that make any difference in the win/loss ratio and if so, why?
Dennis

It would make no difference at all. It would only make things more complicated for you to actually play.

If you want to further research this idea I would advise you ignore ND's suggestion.

[NathanDetroit]

ND,
  Would that make any difference in the win/loss ratio and if so, why?

Dennis



My preference lies with the wheel not with the straihtjacket of the  markings on the felt. A  matter of bet selection.


ND



For recreational purposes only. Play at your own risk.

[horus]

Hello Dennis,

I did expand on this idea a bit, however I never got around to sharing it on the forums. I found that there were a lot of times when the dozen or column changed but it was the furthest one back. That's the problem with high variance bets. You can either get long losing spells or periods where you get no triggers to bet.

The change was to incorporate LOW and HIGH into the mix and to try and benefit from either the missing dozen or column appearing.

6 1C
27 3C
13 2A  1B
11 1B  3C  (so here you can see the previous number was 13 and it has went to 11. So it has stayed on a low number. The missing 1B appeared and now 3C is missing, so this is different. I will use S for same and D for different as you will see in the example coming up.)

So it would look like this.....

6 1C
27 3C
13 2A  1B
11 1B  3C  SD
22 2A  3C  DS (here it is DS because the 11 went to 22 *low to high* and the 3C remained missing *same*)
5 1B  3C  DS
33 3C  2A  DD
32 3B  2A  SS
28 3A  2C  SD
9 1C  2B  DD
12 1C  2B  SS
26 3B  2A  DD

When I did this, the interesting thing that I noticed is how many times you would get DD.

Look at the last 2 numbers.. 12 and 26. The 2B is missing when the 12 came out. For a DD to appear next, I need it to change from low to high and for either the 2nd dozen or column B to appear.

So in this picture, I have highlighted the 2B.

[attachimg=1]

But it also needs to be high.

[attachimg=2]

The high part of the 2B is highlighted in red.

This can be played by placing 5 split bets... 19/22, 20/23, 21/24, 26/29, 32/35.

There are a few other things I will mention in my next post.

cheers

[horus]

I briefly touched on the DD above which would be a number shifting from high to low or vice versa and either the missing dozen or column appearing.

There are 4 combinations using 'S' (same) or 'D' (different).

1) SS. The number stays the same (either high or low) and the missing dozen column both stay missing.

2) SD. The number stays the same (either high or low) and either the missing dozen column (or both) appear.

3) DD. The number changes from high to low or low to high and either the missing dozen column (or both) appear.

4) DS. The number changes from high to low or low to high and the missing dozen column both stay missing.

You will find if you do some research that the SS can go missing for the longest. The most common thing to happen is for the SD and DD to appear.

What I used to like to do in order to try and read what was going on is the following.....

[attachimg=1]

I would track the 4 groups and see which ones were missing for the longest.

[attachimg=2]

You can see here towards the end that the SS and DS were both missing for a while leaving either SD or DD to appear. The common denominator here is the missing dozen column keeps hitting. One thing which would happen a lot when the SD and DD were appearing is how they would appear in a type of 'chop' effect. Like DD, SD, DD, SD, DD etc....  I always used to look out for this.

If you study this, you will see all the possible bets can be placed as splits.

cheers.

[horus]

This picture is from the first batch of numbers I looked at today.

[attachimg=1]

The SS has two absences of 7 and 5. (fairly normal for the SS)
The SD has two absences of 6 and 6.
The DD only has an absence of 3.
The DS has an absence of 8.

I wouldn't suggest to bet the DD blindly because there are better ways to go about it than that. However you do get a lot of times where the DD has a lot of short absence intervals. It hit 9 times in 20 spins which would have roughly gave around +60 flat betting.

[horus]

Here is another batch of numbers that I just looked at from Weisbaden.

You can see that the SS has fallen of a cliff!

The SD and DD have come up 24 times from 30. Now that's not bad considering it is roughly an even money bet. You can kind of see the 'chop' effect operating now and again but it's not going berserk like it sometimes does.

[attachimg=1]

There will be corrections for sure. That's why I say you can't just bet for the DD blindly. I charted like above so I could see pretty quickly what was going on and bet accordingly.

cheers.

[DennisBelle]

Horus,
   Thanks for posting!  I will study this.
Dennis

[Kimo Li]

I would like to share a spreadsheet that tracks all of the characters on the layout, for members only. However, I do not know how to attach.

Thanks, P.

Spreadsheet is attached.

Kimo Li

[The Crow]

Thanks